The ‘Why’ Behind The Dream

Is Important

Ep. 626 with Lesley & Brad

“I feel like I’m very much doing my calling.”

Lesley Logan

Bio

Shownotes

In this interview recap, Lesley and Brad explore June Suepunpuck’s insights on joy, identity, and the courage it takes to pause and reassess the life you’re living. They reflect on career versus calling, destination addiction, and the role grief plays in meaningful transformation. This episode is a reminder that sustainable joy grows from self-awareness—and the willingness to be honest with yourself.

If you have any questions about this episode or want to get some of the resources we mentioned, head over to LesleyLogan.co/podcast. If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co.

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

• Understanding the why behind the dream and its impact on fulfillment.
• The difference between building a career and honoring a calling.
• Why addressing grief is a necessary part of finding real joy.
• How to identify one good thing about today even when you’re struggling.
• How to actively question whether the life you are living brings you joy.

Episode References/Links:

• Pilates Journal Expo – https://xxll.co/pilatesjournal
• Cambodia Retreat Waitlist – https://crowsnestretreats.com
• Agency Mini – https://prfit.biz/mini
• Contrology Pilates Conference in Poland – https://xxll.co/poland
• Contrology Pilates Conference in Brussels – https://xxll.co/brussels
• POT in London – https://xxll.co/pot
• How To Find Joy Podcast – https://howtofindjoy.buzzsprout.com
• June Suepunpuck’s Website – https://www.joyguidejune.com
• Submit your wins or questions – https://beitpod.com/questions
• Online Pilates Classes on Youtube – https://www.youtube.com/@OnlinePilatesClasses
• Episode 559: David Corbin – https://beitpod.com/ep559

Transcript

Lesley Logan 0:00
You learn from what you did, and you do better the next time. And we have to allow for that, and we can’t be so afraid of people who could take advantage on either side that we don’t do anything at all.

—-

Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self-doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

—-

Lesley Logan 0:50
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the delightful convo I had with June Suepunpuck in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause us now go back and listen to that one. Brad was obsessed with it. He interrupted my work three times a day to tell me how much he appreciated it. So you should go listen to it and then come back and join us, or keep listening and then go listen to that one.

Lesley Logan 1:15
Today is January 8th 2026, and it’s War on Poverty Day.

Brad Crowell 1:20
War on Poverty Day.

Lesley Logan 1:21
Okay, ready for it. Annually, on January 8th, we reflect on the impact of the legislation first introduced in 1964 by President Lyndon B. Johnson that collectively expanded economic opportunity through anti poverty, health, education, employment policies. I mean, we can’t cosign on this more, I think. Lyndon B. Johnson’s War on Poverty was primarily established by the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964.

Brad Crowell 1:46
This is a this is a bit nerdy here, but there’s a reason to give a little (inaudible). So the EOA.

Lesley Logan 1:51
We’re gonna rant in a second with some of you like that. But we got to get you on the same page with us. So created the Office of the EO,

Brad Crowell 1:59
the Office of Economic Opportunity. So the EOA was the Act created the OEO. So the Office of Economic Opportunity.

Lesley Logan 2:07
I guess I thought it was in a office of, like, OEC, but anyways, I don’t know what I’m talking about. So I could never work in government, because I get confused with the letters real quick. So Office of Economic Opportunity, OEO, that’s like a song, oh, e, o, oh. Anyways, to oversee new programs, I did not take my focus meds today. Key initiatives include the job corpse head. Key initiatives included the Job Corps, Head Start and community action programs, along with funding for vocational training, college work study and local development. Subsequent legislation and programs expanded on this foundation, including the permanent Food Stamp Act of 1964 and the passage of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965.

Brad Crowell 2:31
Yeah, so it’s possible that you might have heard of the Job Corps. You probably heard of Head Start. You may or may not have heard of community action programs, but you’ve definitely heard of food stamps, and you’ve definitely heard of Medicare and Medicaid, right? So all of these came out of LBJ’s, War on Poverty program, which included the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964 and.

Lesley Logan 3:08
And if you have, if you’re not, if you never had experienced like food stamps or Medicare or Medicaid, right? Medicaid is for the babies and Medicare is when you’re older, if I’m correct, if you haven’t ever had experienced that it might be really easy to not know how people are served by that, how much they’re served by it, like, how do they get that? And so if you have any reasons to go, I can’t believe they’re paying this much on food stamps, I highly educate would educate yourself on how hard people have to work to get these things.

Brad Crowell 3:33
Well, we’re talking about, we’re talking about poverty here. Right? And so, you know, the reality is that it’s a it’s, it’s actually really, really challenging to get out of poverty. Right, 10% of our country currently 11, it’s moving up to like 11% or something, is in the place where we would consider them in poverty.

Lesley Logan 3:51
Yeah. And if you want to know what that is, I think the US government considers you in poverty if you make under $20,000 as an individual, which, by the way, is $0 like that. How I don’t even know where you’re living, that you can afford the food at the grocery store and gas and any part of life. So you know, if you are in that place, a lot of people are working full time jobs ending poverty.

Brad Crowell 4:15
For a family of four in in the United States in 2025 the Federal Poverty Level is an annual income of $32,150 or less.

Lesley Logan 4:24
How do you feed how do you feed four mouths on that amount of money?

Brad Crowell 4:24
For the whole year.

Lesley Logan 4:24
Yeah, I don’t even understand that.

Brad Crowell 4:24
Like that’s enough for the food. What about.

Lesley Logan 4:24
Well. And then we, and then there’s these people have the nerve to tell those people, well, they should just eat healthier. How are you affording lettuce and eggs on that amount of money? And then also.

Brad Crowell 4:40
You’re able to afford a fast food meal because it’s $1.

Lesley Logan 4:43
Because it’s $1.

Brad Crowell 4:44
And that’s why it’s crap.

Lesley Logan 4:45
Yeah, so let me just finish our notes, and then we can (inaudible). One definition of poverty is not have enough resources for your basic needs, and it’s a huge impact on people’s lives in society. It’s a huge impact on society. People think all the time like, oh, I don’t want to pay for immigrants to have health care. Well, you don’t, but you certainly pay when they go to county, when you go to them, they go the hospital, you pay. So, like, we have, we, I actually don’t think a country can be rich if you have all.

Brad Crowell 5:09
Let’s just make a distinction there. We’re not paying for, we’re not paying for immigrants to have health care, in the sense of, like, are they on insurance going to the doctor. If they go to the emergency room, yes, right, if they go to jail, yeah, we’re paying for that, too.

Lesley Logan 5:25
And by the way, if you were traveling a different country that happens to have healthcare for all of their people, you also don’t pay like my friend, yeah, as a visitor, my friend had an emergency surgery. They fell in the Netherlands in a race, and they did this crazy surgery that would have costed her so much money, no bill. Anyways, that’s another day, another day’s holiday. So recent studies show that suggests that the poorest states have a poverty rate of up to 18%. I think we can guess what states those are. Poverty can happen to anyone. This is very important. Poverty can happen to anyone, whether it’s students who rely on scholarships to claim their right to education, seniors struggling with rising health care costs, or large families struggling to get food on the table. Poverty is a problem that over 40 million Americans are fighting against on a daily basis, and we’ll just say as of 2024 we were down to 10.6% from 19% of our country beneath the poverty line in 1964.

Brad Crowell 6:18
Yeah, so in 1964 so effectively, like, if you go back and look at the 30s, where there was the Great Depression, they did all of these government programs to help the country, because everything was in the toilet, right? Well, 30 years later, in the 60s, there was a 19% poverty rate, and it was a problem. And so how could they address these problems? They they put into like, that’s how LBJ ran on the war on poverty, and he started to implement these things to support the country, right? And it’s taken a long time for us to get down to 10% poverty, 10 and a half percent, yeah, you know. And that was what was happening as of last year. And now things are shifting in the wrong direction.

Lesley Logan 6:57
Yeah. And there. And also, by the way, we were, we were recording this before the Thanksgiving holiday. And so what we do know is, on January 1st, everyone’s healthcare bills are going up. Ours, we are very lucky that ours only went up 3000 for the year, for the two of us.

Brad Crowell 7:09
Yeah, it’s, well, it’s 25%. Ours went up 25%.

Lesley Logan 7:12
Yeah, that is insanity. That is insanity. And can we afford it? Sure, we’re just gonna invest less in our retirement, I guess. Like, you know, it’s not like, it’s that money just doesn’t come from somewhere. And what I also know is that there are people in certain states that theirs is going up 48%, and some people are making $85,000 a year. Their health insurance is going to cost $44,000 a year. So we’re going to see poverty go up. And if we don’t start thinking about it as a way that, like, I think that a lot of people think about people taking like they get these things, and they’re taking from the government, and that’s coming from your tax dollars. But if we don’t help people get ahead, they will always be taking in different ways, right? And so your crime will go up. Why? Because people have to sleep and eat and be warm like they just have to. So we have to think of it as a holistic thing. And I really think that I love what LBJ did, and I love that we’re honoring this. And I think like we could be doing so much better by now. I feel like if LBJ was alive, I would hope he’d be disappointed that we don’t actually have preschool for every child in the US for free, like Head Start in Vegas, my nail tech, it’s a lottery. So some of her kids got Head Start, and some of her kids didn’t. And she’s like, Lesley, I can tell you a difference in my children my kids can read levels above where their greatest and some of them are behind and and she’s like, I can’t, I can’t teach them that that’s not something I didn’t teach them, that they learned that at school when they got to earlier. So I just think that we could be doing a better job, and especially, like, we should be thinking about people who’d have less than us and not, how do we give them more? Like, yes, any more money, but how do we actually set them up so that they can do other things? They need trainings, they need childcare. They need it to be they need busses to be free, you know, like, there’s just different things we can do. So anyways.

Brad Crowell 8:58
Yeah, it’s that this is this is a tough thing, you know, like, if you look at the I’m not going to keep going, because I could keep going on. But this, this is definitely a challenging thing. I’m, you know, I’m glad that we have attempted to address it over the years. I don’t admit, I don’t, I can’t, I can’t convincingly say that we’ve done an amazing job of the process of doing it, you know, like, but I, but I think the intention is the right intention, and we should be always looking for ways to make it better.

Lesley Logan 9:22
And also, I think, you know, that’s exactly the right line, like we’re just always looking for ways to make it better, you’re going to have people who are going to have nefarious acts that they’re using the money for or not doing it correctly. You cannot always be thinking only about those people, because they’re always a small percentage. You have to be thinking about the greater good. And then when you figure out how people are usurping the system or doing different things. Okay, you make changes.

Brad Crowell 9:43
Well, let’s, let’s talk about this like I think this is important, because there’s always going to be someone taking advantage of the system. But I think even defining it as a percentage seems misleading, because I would imagine the numbers are minutes. We’re talking 40 million people in the United States are considered poverty line or below. 40 million people. So even if 10,000 people are taking advantage of it, that sounds like a lot of people, but the percentage is microscopic compared to 40 million.

Lesley Logan 10:05
Correct. And also, I wasn’t even thinking about the people like this is, right, I think people are thinking about the people on food stamps or whatever, like the Reagan years of all that disgusting rhetoric, but I was actually thinking about, like, the companies that are pretending to help people, to get the government money to do these things, I was actually thinking about like, you know, there are people who can say, Oh, I’m going to do these things with this program and get that money, but I think you just you, you learn from what you did, and you do better the next time. And we have to allow for that, and we can’t be so afraid of people who could take advantage on either side that we don’t do anything at all?

Brad Crowell 10:43
Yeah. Okay, well, hey, thanks for joining us on that journey. That was a journey, that was a history lesson.

Lesley Logan 10:48
I just get really upset about this. I was poor. I was so poor, you know. And I was, I guess I was lucky that my parents weren’t on any of these stamps, whatever, because they had family to help. But, like, this is how my life started, so I can’t even imagine, was, like, if they didn’t have that help.

Brad Crowell 11:02
Yeah, yeah. Well, I appreciate your passion, and I think it’s important. I love it. I really do. I mean.

Lesley Logan 11:09
Well, I mean, like, I would, I would not have gone to college had my best friend’s parents not cosign a student loan. You know, like, I happen to have those people, and that’s why I get to be where I am today. So I’m, I think that, like, I think a lot of people don’t realize how close they were growing up, or people in their lives were to being poor, like impoverished. So, January, hi.

Brad Crowell 11:30
Let’s talk about upcoming events. We’re shifting gears.

Lesley Logan 11:33
We’re home, today we’re home.

Brad Crowell 11:34
It’s January. Today is the eighth we just we are pulling in from tour tonight.

Lesley Logan 11:39
We are fixing the roots, changing the nails. Well, they’re my nails, but they’re getting new they’re getting an update.

Brad Crowell 11:45
Yeah. And then tomorrow.

Lesley Logan 11:45
We drive down to Huntington Beach.

Brad Crowell 11:45
We hit the road again.

Lesley Logan 11:46
We’re leaving Bayon, we’re leaving Bayon, and we’re we’re driving to Huntington Beach for the Pilates Journal Expo. You can go to xxll.co/pilatesjournal. I don’t know why I stuttered there, but I thought I said them. That’s completely wrong. xxll.co/pilatesjournal. So if there’s any spots left, you should totally join us there. There’s like, the lineup is insane.

Brad Crowell 12:08
Yeah, it’s gonna be awesome.

Lesley Logan 12:09
The lineup’s insane. Then, oh, you know what? We’ll tell you this, but I’m pretty sure tomorrow it releases. So you want to get on the waitlist for next year’s Cambodia retreat, because.

Brad Crowell 12:20
No, this year’s.

Lesley Logan 12:21
This year’s, oh, it’s this year. Well, you need to change that copy, my friend. You want to get on the waitlist for this year’s Cambodia retreat details. We’ll be having early bird presale right now. In fact, if my memory serves me correctly, it starts tomorrow, but only for those on the waitlist, crowsnestretreats.com is where you go.

Brad Crowell 12:40
I thought it was the 12th, but it could be the ninth.

Lesley Logan 12:43
I think it’s the ninth.

Brad Crowell 12:44
Anyway, get on the waitlist, crowsnestretreats.com you’ll find the waitlist there.

Lesley Logan 12:46
This is what happens when we’re recording early. Okay, then next month we have Agency Mini. It’ll be happening this year’s February, and you want to get on the waitlist for that, for it prfit.biz/mini who is it for? It is for the teachers, Pilates teachers and studio owners who work for themselves or want to, and they want to have ease in their business, without the overwhelm, and they actually want to be in control of things and not feel like they’re always like reacting, because that’s annoying in the business. So pfit.biz/mini we only are doing Mini, I don’t know, maybe twice this year, but for sure, one.

Brad Crowell 13:17
The plan, the plan is two times in 2026.

Lesley Logan 13:19
Okay, great. Well, you don’t want to miss this one. You’ll go, oh, I’ll do the next one because that could be, that could be the fall. I don’t even know what it’s going to be. Oh, it’s going to be the fall. We could find out on the flight.

Brad Crowell 13:26
Yeah, end of Q3 beginning of Q4.

Lesley Logan 13:30
And then.

Brad Crowell 13:30
So, but the point is this, why wait another six months? It’s, we’re talking it’s early it’s going to be early bird.

Lesley Logan 13:38
By the way, it’s only $25 when it’s early bird, and it’s $65 full price. If what we teach you makes you an extra.

Brad Crowell 13:43
$25

Lesley Logan 13:46
Over six months. No, I was gonna say, do the math like, okay, six months is what? 26 weeks? 26 weeks, right? 24 weeks this I’m not a mathematician, so 24. Let’s say, let’s just say, all we do is make you an extra $100 a week. That’s $2,400 you’re fucking welcome, for 25 bucks go to prfit.biz/mini then in March, Brad and I are taking off to Europe for a month. I’m teaching the Poland Controlology Pilates conference with Karen Frischmann, xxll.co/poland and then the next week, where Karen and I are in Brussels. Brad’s joining us along for the ride. xxll.co/brussels we’re super excited about both events are selling really fast. I think our sessions are very much taken in Brussels, but there might be some spots left in Poland and then, okay, we’ve been saying, like, I don’t know if we can announce it yet. I don’t know. Well, here’s what I do know. As of December 2nd, it was official to announce that we were going to be in London. So it’s a few can now buy your ticket. And I don’t know if the early bird is happening still or not, because I don’t know anything, but I do know we’ll be there. And I have workshops, I have a booth, you going to want to go to xxll.co/pot, so go there. Okay.

Brad Crowell 15:00
Awesome.

Lesley Logan 15:00
We have an audience question. I promise not to take too long.

Brad Crowell 15:02
We sure do. Yeah. Instagram, (inaudible) reached out asking if OPC has a certificate of training online, and she said she wants it to be a Pilates instructor, mostly for knowledge. So she’s not trying to be a teacher. She wants it as a practitioner to know specifically for herself. Do we have any recommendations?

Lesley Logan 15:24
Well, I love this question, because I always want to do this with Anthony for yoga, like I always wanted him to teach a yoga training, but just for people who just wanted to learn it better and not be a teacher, because almost every teacher training that I’ve ever heard of in life is going to teach you how to teach it. And so what I would say is I don’t know of a program that does that, especially online, that’s going to be solid that I know about. I know that the Pilates Center out of Boulder does have online trainings, but again, they’re going to train you to teach it, and there’s going to be requirements for you to teach it. So what I would probably also just encourage you to do, because this is something that I realized now that we’ve trained with Anthony for over 10 years, is that the more you just do classical Pilates with us at OPC, you will become more educated and knowledgeable about the practice, especially for your body. So what I would actually suggest, and I know this sounds like a shameless plug, but seriously. Now at OPC, we follow Joseph Pilates’ orders on all the pieces of equipment. And yes, there’s other equipment that we don’t talk about in OPC classes, but you can always ask us about them. And you can take advantage of the FFF and submit videos of you doing exercises, and I will give you specialized feedback for your practice so you’re more knowledge about your body. You can come to the live class every month, and ask questions for your practice, and I will answer that for your body, and you can get the flash cards. So you do those things.

Brad Crowell 16:46
So do, do we have a certificate of training online? No, but I don’t know that you need one the tools that we’ve created will will support you in your goal, yeah, which you know we’re assuming is to further your personal practice.

Lesley Logan 17:01
And if you’re like, I don’t want to pay you a dime, LL, great. Our YouTube videos are free. Go have fun. You can do it between the flash cards and the YouTube videos. You can really understand it for your practice. You don’t need to pay thousands of dollars for training where you only want half of the information. That’s what I would do. If you would like to ask me a question. You can go to 310-905-5534, you can text us, call us, or you can go to beitpod.com/questions and send one in.

Brad Crowell 17:24
Love it.

Lesley Logan 17:25
And you can send your win in because I really love seeing those. All right.

Brad Crowell 17:29
Stick around. We’ll be right back.

Brad Crowell 17:31
All right, now, let’s talk about June Suepunpuck. Okay, June is a joy guide. She’s a speaker, and she’s the host of the How to Find Joy Podcast. She helps high achieving, heart-led leaders who have reached the top and still find themselves asking, is this it? Or what’s the point? With a background in psychology and tools like human design and nervous system healing, June guides people through the process of reassessing their goals, addressing destination addiction of finding fulfillment in daily life rather than in the next achievement. This conversation lit me on fire because I, I’m I’m telling you, we’ve had a handful of other guests that talked about joy, and we had the doctor who was doing the research on it, and I was, like, really intrigued by that, but I don’t know this. I really connected with the way that she talked and spoke and the things that she dug into. So I’m very excited to discuss this. So tell me what you loved about this convo.

Lesley Logan 18:33
Okay, so we, I mean, there’s so many different things, but like, I really love that she found a way to articulate the difference between, like, a career versus a calling. And that, like, you know, once you figure out what your calling is, it becomes, oh, it becomes really clear, like, this is the point. She said, like, this is the point, why we do it. I also love that she emphasize differentiate, differentiating between career versus calling, because it’s, like, the important, because it’s a why behind the dream, and it will determine if the result, the resulting fulfillment, will be fleeting or sustainable. So because if you’re not clear on the dream, then it’s really easy for us to, like, have an achievement, and then literally, three minutes later, go on to something else and a whole other feeling, like we’ve all done that, right? We’re like, have this amazing high. And then you need a text message like, oh, fuck, right. And then, like, the high is gone. Where’d the high go? It’s just totally gone. So, you have to have that clarity. Because I will say, like, I feel like I’m very much doing my calling. And the more I get clear on, like, not just what we what I know, I’ve always known what we’re doing and why we’re doing it, but the more you work on it, the more you’re like, oh, I can make this better. Oh, we this could be the next thing that we do. And even on the hardest days you feel fulfilled, is more sustainable than like, going with the highs and lows of the business, like, I can have a good day only when the business has a good day.

Brad Crowell 19:52
Yeah, I think, I think, like to clarify the career versus the calling thing. You know, it’s put it into context, I think. She specifically meant. Mentioned her the influence of her parents on her college direction, you know, which is very typical for a first generation American, right? Her parents emigrated here. She was born here, and then what did they tell her, you got to be a doctor, basically, right?

Lesley Logan 20:17
I know I had friends whose parents like, you can do whatever you want. I’m like, what? I’m not a first generation American. I was the first person to go to college like you figure out a degree that pays this bill back. That’s what you have to do.

Brad Crowell 20:28
Well, the the so for her, she, you know, it’s like, now, go pursue your goals is what she said. And I listened to that part twice because I thought this is really interesting, you know, because she started saying, well, are these actually my goals? I don’t know that these are my goals. I don’t know. Am I excited about this at all? Right? This is going to put me on a career path that’s going to make me probably the money that, you know, my parents want me to have, which is great, or the whatever that my parents want to have, awesome. But you know, is this my calling? And the answer is most likely no. So career versus calling in that sense, right? And she said, why are we doing the career? What is it about it? Right? We’re, we’re been told, Well, that’s going to get you the financial independence, the house, the car, the money, the whatever, you know. And then, because you’re in a parent child relationship, you know, how are you supposed to say, No, that’s tough, right?

Lesley Logan 21:20
Yeah, oh, I don’t think, I don’t even know that you she had the opportunity to you just, you don’t have the life experience to know you can.

Brad Crowell 21:27
Yeah, sure, and, you know, and then and then, and then, and then, what happens? Then, like, you know, you have your midlife crisis, and you’re like, I hate everything about what I’m doing, you know, because once you’ve gotten the money, once you’ve had the time in the career. Does it make you happy? Probably not. Probably not. So now you’re disenchanted, because you’re like, Well, what the hell I thought that when I got here, it was going to be different. I was going to feel happy and fulfilled and better and ready to go, and I’m not. I don’t feel that at all. So now, why am I doing it? And that’s when people blow up their lives. And I really appreciate it when you and her were both talking about this moment where kaboom, right, quit everything, all of it, or it fell apart around you, you know, like in your case, it started with one decision you made, and then all these other things happening on top of it.

Lesley Logan 22:13
Yeah, I like detonated something, and then like that detonated a lot of things.

Brad Crowell 22:13
Yeah. So, you know, and I appreciated you sharing your story then, because I thought that was really, really awesome. But you know, the differentiating between the career versus the calling is important because of the why behind the dream and really knowing the dream. How do you know your dream? You need to know yourself, right? And that’s, that’s really tough.

Lesley Logan 22:39
Yeah, I mean, like, I think that’s where people are really struggling, is, like, getting to know themselves. I don’t think, like, I think that a lot of people have been being, especially women who listen this podcast, right? Like, like, they have been trying to be the perfect daughter, perfect wife, perfect sister, perfect employee. Like, don’t take up too much space. And like, now they’re, they’re 40s plus, and they’re like, I’m fucking tired of that. But then it’s like, okay, what? Okay, then, who am I? Right, right? Yeah, you know. So it’s not, it’s not the easiest thing, but I think it’s the most essential thing to figure out.

Brad Crowell 23:12
Yeah, yeah. 100% and, and, you know, so, and then there’s a couple of other paths here, right? If you’ve hit that point of, like, I hate what I’m doing, you know, and you make a change, you know, there’s, it’s terrifying, it’s scary. There’s all these things. And that’s when I, when I was really, you know, intrigued, because she said, yes, I coach people on finding joy. But I’m actually also like, a grief coach too, because when you make a change, there is grieving that happens. It just does, like, there’s no way around it, right? And so what I really liked, when she was talking about this, she said, you can’t it’s kind of like what Anthony said, you can’t have, you know, war without peace. You can’t have light without dark. You can’t have good without bad, right? You can’t have these things. You need that polarity and joy was, was reiterating that. She said experiencing deep grief is actually necessary, because you wouldn’t have understood how joyful you can be if you haven’t personally experienced those dark places. I mean, I personally connected with this in my with my journey, with my story, where my, you know, I thought I was happy with my my old relationship, everything went to ship, and then I was incredibly set right, and now I have this marker in my life where I’m like, I am so much in a different place from where I was after that. And I can, I can measure against that and go barometer of in the shit versus not even close to that anymore. I am very happy today with who I am now because I had that negative experience, so.

Lesley Logan 24:52
Yeah, I do think like and I think, I think it’s really easy when you’re in the grieving part to just go, Well, this is all happening for a reason. Correct it is. It doesn’t mean you don’t, you skip the part where you feel it, you know, like, and I also think it’s really easy for us to want for others to not feel those things. We’re like, trying to help people out in our lives from like, we try to make sure they don’t make the same mistake as us. And so then we end up telling them things that make them just like, doubt what they’re doing, and it’s so important that, like, I remember one of the coaches we had said you can’t take someone’s rock bottom away, and I think that, like, you’ve got to be there for people when they hit it, but you kind of got to let people experience it, otherwise they’re going to hit it again.

Brad Crowell 25:34
Yeah, but I think there’s a second step here, and I think I agree with you 100% and I think it’s important for you can’t take away someone’s rock bottom, no, because otherwise you’re just enabling them. And they’re gonna they’re never gonna change or learn or transform. But there’s a second part of transformation after you hit the rock bottom, you have to address the grief.

Lesley Logan 25:54
That you will that goes back to what June was saying. You have to. A lot of people, don’t, I think they just like, want to skip over to the feeling good part.

Brad Crowell 26:01
Right. And, and addressing the grief is where the self-reflection happens, the the analysis of, where were you and that you know, where were you before the shit? How did you get into the shit? Like, how do we not want to be in the shit, and now that we’re now, how do we get out of it, right? And, and there’s a lot of, that’s right.

Lesley Logan 26:01
Who do we need to see or who are you going to ask for help or.

Brad Crowell 26:24
Self-reflection.

Lesley Logan 26:25
Yeah, I will. There you go. That goes back to the same other thing as, like, people don’t know themselves. This helps with that, because you, you, well, it’s inside you, but you can’t always articulate it, like, sometimes it comes out better in a journal.

Brad Crowell 26:40
Yeah, sure. I mean, there’s a lot of different methods to to get it out of your head, get it out of your you know, subconcsious.

Lesley Logan 26:45
There was that one guy who tries to grab a journal, but close your eyes and just write what was coming up with your eyes closed.

Lesley Logan 26:50
Oh, that’s interesting.

Lesley Logan 26:51
It was like David, somebody on the pod, like David Grove Gore Groban. Starts with a G. It was in the last 100 episodes.

Brad Crowell 26:51
It’s in the last 100 episodes.

Lesley Logan 26:51
But I liked it. I like the idea of that, like there’s different ways to do self-reflection. And when you self reflect, it allows you to know yourself, which allows you.

Brad Crowell 27:08
Corbin.

Lesley Logan 27:09
Corbin, not Groban, okay. So you can the more you know yourself, the more you’re gonna understand, not just like your calling, but also how you experience joy and grief. Yeah.

Brad Crowell 27:22
Yeah, awesome. Well, anyway, I, I, I would suggest going back and watching this episode again or listening to this episode again. Really, really awesome.

Lesley Logan 27:30
She’s so authentic. I really enjoyed her. Yeah.

Brad Crowell 27:33
Yeah, and also very willing to be transparent. That’s great.

Lesley Logan 27:37
Yeah I was like, whoa. So, like, I so appreciate her transparency, because usually people come on and they like, be her like, they, like, they, they, for lack of better word, like, like, they whitewash the experience. Like I was here and now I’m here, and it’s like, okay, but hold on, how do we get here? And they like, are so good at like, going around it? And she’s like, nope, this is the it. This is how it was. And I, I really enjoyed that.

Brad Crowell 27:58
Yeah. Well, stick around. We’ll be right back, because we have some great be it action items from June.

Brad Crowell 28:05
Welcome back, welcome back. Let’s talk about those Be It Action Items that we got from your conversation with June. So what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from that convo? She suggested journaling, but she gave some very specific journaling tips, which we love here.

Lesley Logan 28:25
She’s a fan of the show, so she knows the rules.

Brad Crowell 28:27
Although, yeah, yeah, absolutely, although, ironically, she was, she was myth-busting the perfectionism. I was really interested in listening to her first season of her podcast because she was trying to, like, break down the steps of how to be joyful. And in season two, she’s basically already decided there’s no one way to do it. And this entire way that I thought that I was creating in season one, I don’t think I agree with myself anymore, and I was laughing about that. So sorry, perfectionist, but this, I thought, was a very actionable tip. She said, identify one good thing about today. One good thing about today. It’s not a gratitude journal. This is she because she believes that gratitude is very hard to reach when you’re struggling. So you’re just identifying one good thing about today. You’re focusing on only the one good thing, such as, I woke up tonight, or I woke up today. You know, provides a vital step on the path towards joy, even when deeper feelings of appreciation or joy feel very out of reach. So thought that was a great simple like just baby step kind of a thing to to support, especially if you’re looking at everything as scary or frustrating. So, yeah. What about you?

Lesley Logan 29:36
Okay. This is huge. I think this is amazing. Ready? Stop lying to yourself. That’s what she says. Be It Action Item. We’ve never had anyone say this. And I was like, yeah, actually, that’s probably the best way to be it until you see it. Stop lying to yourself. Where are you lying to yourself in your life? You need to get honest. You must figure this out. And she said, actively question the life you are currently living by asking, are you living this life that is your dream? Is it expired? Does it still even bring you joy? And so there’s ways to find yourself and discover this new version of yourself that can support by reaching you can get support by reaching out to her and get support and go to therapy. But I love this, like, where am I living? Is this the life that I wanted to live? Is it the life that I wanted to live while did it expire? Did I did I move on from a new life to a new life? Does it even bring me joy? We only get this one life, you know, that’s what we know.

Brad Crowell 30:29
I remember this made me think back to my childhood dream, where they’re like, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, and everyone’s like an astronaut, firefighter.

Lesley Logan 30:38
My sister said, an adult.

Brad Crowell 30:39
Brilliant. I told everyone I was going to be a professional soccer player, and I was preaching that since I was, like, six years old and.

Lesley Logan 30:48
You mean, you could have done it, babe.

Brad Crowell 30:49
I could have done it, except that when I got into high school and I was 75 pounds, it was pretty tough for me to be able to muscle people off the ball. So it became pretty, pretty quick that physically, it was gonna be really challenging for me to be able to compete.

Lesley Logan 31:04
But look at you now.

Brad Crowell 31:05
Look at me now.

Lesley Logan 31:06
You, maybe you’re, maybe you’re a late bloomer.

Brad Crowell 31:09
Pro soccer. Here I come, 43 I got this.

Lesley Logan 31:12
Require you to be so consistent.

Brad Crowell 31:15
But I, but I, yeah, which, which you know that’s, well, that’s my MO, consistency, but, but here’s the here’s the reality is that I also wasn’t really enjoying it in my teens as much anymore. When I was a kid, all I wanted to do was soccer. I loved it. I went out, I juggled, I did the backyard thing, all that stuff. I was excited about it. But when I got in my teens, I was not as excited, not as enthusiastic. I was doing it because I thought I had to. So, you know, it was interesting to shift. Same thing happened with my music career, where I was like, I define myself as a musician. This is the only thing I actually ever want to do with my life. And then years later, I was like, well, I kind of want to do other things too. You know, is this really giving me the joy? And there are definitely pieces of the music element that I missed, don’t get me wrong, for sure, but also too, I’m so grateful that I was willing to redefine who I am, how I am, because it really wasn’t bringing me the joy that I thought it was and or that it initially did. So yeah, yeah, stop lying to yourself. Very, very tough.

Lesley Logan 32:14
I love it. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 32:15
And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 32:16
Thanks so much for listening to this, you know, our rants, to our favorite takeaways, to our episodes. Who are you going to share this episode with? I would certainly share June’s first and then this one. And because your friends need to hear it, they need to hear these Be It Action Items. They need to hear these things and it allows us to have not just friendships where we cheer each other on, but friendships we can hold each other accountable. So we can be it till we see it together. So you know what to do, until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 32:46
Bye for now.

Lesley Logan 32:42
That’s all I got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It Podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate the show and leave a review and follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to your podcast. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the Be It Pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others Be It Till You See It. Have an awesome day. Be It Till You See It is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @BeItPod.

Brad Crowell 33:24
It’s written, filmed, and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan, and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 33:29
It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.co.

Brad Crowell 33:34
Our theme music is by Ali at Apex Production Music and our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan 33:41
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell 33:44
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

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