You Have a 100% Survival

Rate of Every Situation

Ep. 54 with Lesley & Brad

“It’s so important that you honor what your goals were and love yourself, then try not to take in too many different people’s advice at the same time on the same topic, because that’s gonna make you confused and also feel shame.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

If you hear conflicting advice do you end up getting stuck? Do you beat yourself up about it? Today LL and Brad talk more about that, how we often hold ourselves accountable to things that aren’t even of our own design, and why we should definitely, absolutely, 100% bet on ourselves first.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at

In this episode you will learn about:

  • OPC flashcards are now on Amazon
  • Bold moment from Amanda implemented changes to my class schedule
  • We think Launa Jae McClung should be a comedian 🙂
  • The mental cycle of how we judge ourselves
  • Sometimes we make it our fault instead of recognizing the system is flawed
  • Get really good at deciding where you get your information from
  • You have a 100% survival rate of every situation

    Episode References/Links:


    Lesley Logan
    Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


    Lesley Logan 0:45
    Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the candid convo I had with Launa McClung in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Seriously, you cannot skip that one.

    Brad Crowell 1:03
    It’s a great, hilarious, (Lesley: It’s so …) candid interview. (Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 1:06
    Yeah … Her her words are amazing. She is, she is worth the follow my friends. I promise. (Lesley laughs) So anyways, we had something exciting happen, y’all. We’ve been working on this behind the scenes for so freakin’ long (I actually forgot we’re working on it.) (Brad: Yeah) Brad, what’s happening?

    Brad Crowell 1:27
    We finally opened up an Amazon account for

    Lesley Logan 1:32
    For the flashcards. (Brad laughs)

    Brad Crowell 1:35
    Yeah, there’s an account right now currently, we have two products up. We got the flashcards for the mat and reformer on there. And we’ll have some others up there eventually. But it… I’m not kidding. It took four months to get this stupid account open. It was quite a process, fighting with Amazon to get everything exactly the way we needed it to be with the name of it because they don’t like having “.com” in the name (Lesley: No) of the brand.

    Lesley Logan 2:01
    And we couldn’t just be OPC or Online Pilates Classes because … (Brad: It’s a little too vague. So …) And so it’s also our name. (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 2:09
    Right. So anyway, that was a fight. But we got it, we got what we needed. It’s finally up. It’s live. And that’s very exciting. So if you prefer to that we … Look, shop from our site, or shop from Amazon.

    Lesley Logan 2:27
    Yeah, we’re not sending you away from our site, please come to our site. But we also know that maybe you trust us and know us, you’re like, “No problem!” (Brad: Right) But maybe your friends and family like, “I don’t know, I prefer to trust the man.” So … (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 2:41
    Yeah and (Lesley: That’s fine) I mean, you know, Amazon obviously takes care of their customers, all the things. Does ship Prime so they can get it like in two days, (Lesley: Yeah) which is great. I mean, ours, I think ours gets there in three days. So it’s not too bad. But anyway, you know, you’re protected with Amazon and all those things. So …

    Lesley Logan 2:57
    You’re also parti… you’re very much protected with us. But look, (Brad: Yeah) we just know (Brad: That’s true) that some people don’t carry their credit card around. (Brad: Right) And so you have it already stored there. And you want to just like click and ship, you know, like add to cart, and then like, you know, skip it all the way like you can even swipe now. You’re like, just send it and it’s like, you know, so I get it and we wanted to basically our mission is “More bodies doing Pilates,” and getting these … (Brad: More bodies doing Pilates.) Getting our cards on Amazon is part of that mission because (Brad: Yeah) not everyone knows me. I know. You can’t believe it. (Brad laughs) You can’t believe it because you’re like everybody knows LL, but not everyone does. And so this, this is our opportunity to help spread the word. So you can buy it from us or you can buy it from Amazon. Both links will be below in the show notes.

    Brad Crowell 3:42
    Okay, I think we’ve exhausted that.

    Lesley Logan 3:43
    … I think so. Here we go. Oh, but first. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 3:50
    Wow, that was a very natural transition right there.

    Lesley Logan 3:53
    You know, just call me “grace” over here. (Brad and Lesley laughs) So normally we have a question, but this week, we have a bold moment. Yeah. (Brad: Yeah) Okay. What’s a bold moment? Tell everyone we started last week.

    Brad Crowell 4:06
    Yeah. So I think this bold moment number two. (Lesley: Yeah) We have had some very exciting feedback from those who are following the pod. And they submitted a bold moment that they did in their life, and they were celebrating the win and they shared it with us. And we thought it was so cool. We thought we would share it with you.

    Lesley Logan 4:28
    Yeah, so this is from Mandy and so if you want to send me a bold moment, you just have to say bold moment. Mandy didn’t say that but I’m sharing it because it’s fucking bold. Here we go. “Hope you get this message because I want to say a huge thank you. As a result of taking your workshop on multi level classes and your podcast focus on taking messy action, I began implementing changes and how I run semiprivate trio and quad sessions at her at my studio.” (Brad: Amazing.) I know. “In the past, I would have waited until everything was perfect before getting started but as you say ‘perfect is boring’ and without action, nothing changes. So I jumped in outside of my comfort zone and my clients have expressed appreciation for the change notice in the value, while graciously understand that beginnings can be a bit chaotic. I’m encouraged, energized and grateful for what I get to do every day. Thank you very, very much.”

    Brad Crowell 5:16
    Oh, that’s amazing.

    Lesley Logan 5:17
    Is that’s so cool.

    Brad Crowell 5:18
    That’s exactly why we do this pod. (Lesley: I know) To encourage you, to get out there, get it started. Don’t let it you know, don’t don’t let it linger. Because that’s what it’s very easy to do to think like, you know, what I’m bringing mi… you know, the people won’t see the value in it until it’s perfect, all that kind of stuff. But the truth is, you just got to start you got to start sometime. So (Lesley: Yeah) we’re here to encourage you to keep doing that. We… so Mandy, thank you for sharing that that was really lovely. And …

    Lesley Logan 5:49
    I’m also glad I got that message that wasn’t one of those like random Facebook requests, but like the hidden ones like you (Brad: Oh, cool. Yeah) you know, like pass. It’s like three different steps … (Brad: Hits us up on IG.) Yeah. (Brad: It’s a little more direct) You can also hit me up on Facebook, but it’s it’s quite possible you end up in the purgatory, because it’s not really where I hang out. But anyways, Mandy got through and you know what good things will, they get through. So, congratulations. (Brad laughs) All right. Thank you for that bold moment. I want to read more keep them coming.

    Brad Crowell 6:15
    Amazing. All right. Now let’s talk about Launa McClung. Launa Jae McClung is a nutritionist, a Crossfit coach and a giver who gets energy from pouring into other people. She helps her clients dial in fat loss through counting macros, and then learning how to sustainably build a plate to keep the fat at bay long after they are finished working with her. And she’s hilarious.

    Lesley Logan 6:41
    Oh, she’s so funny. (Brad laughs) Also, did you know that we like we were already connected to Launa before I met Launa? (Brad: No!) One of our other members Holly is also like really close friends with her.

    Brad Crowell 6:52
    Get out of here. (Lesley: I know) I know, Holly.

    Lesley Logan 6:54
    I know you know Holly. (Brad: Yeah) And I was … (Lesley laughs) And I, I think Holly posted a picture of me when I was in Dallas, and Launa was like, “You know my girl, Holly?”

    Brad Crowell 7:03
    What? That’s so funny. I did not know that. Well, amazing.

    Lesley Logan 7:07
    Yeah. Anyways, I love how small the world is.

    Brad Crowell 7:09
    Yeah, so Launa Jae.

    Lesley Logan 7:10
    Yeah. We had to … was a fun conversation. She is hilarious. I …

    Brad Crowell 7:15
    Oh, yeah. She just off the cuff is, is like a comedian.

    Lesley Logan 7:19
    Yeah. (Brad: She’s great.) I know in your next life, Launa maybe, maybe you’re a comedian, but if you’re like me, and you don’t like to stay up late. It’s probably not in your future either. But something I loved. She said a lot of funny things that I really did enjoy. But …

    Brad Crowell 7:32
    Oh, come on. There’s, I mean, meeting your maker …. There was so many one liners …

    Lesley Logan 7:37
    … Like, well, I don’t even know how we led to being like crawling back into our mother’s womb. But like that happened, that came out of the podcast, I never thought that’d be a sentence on the BE IT pod. It is. Now it’s there.

    Brad Crowell 7:48
    I mean, I think her description of Crossfit also might be one of my favorite …

    Lesley Logan 7:52
    You know, we have to share this with Cindy, our trainer. (Brad: Yeah. Yeah, we have to.) We have to send this podcast to her. Anyway, so … when you listen to this, let us know if the description is accurate. (Lesley and Brad laughs) Well, you know, it must be because Cindy is trying to get us to do the Valentine’s Day Massacre…

    Brad Crowell 8:08
    I know. That does does that sound fun!

    Lesley Logan 8:11
    It doesn’t sound like I’m gonna want to be with my valentine later that day. (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 8:15
    Sign me up for the massacre…

    Lesley Logan 8:17
    Sounds like we’re gonna be in an ice bath later. But anyways, we’ll do we’ll do whatever keeps us strong and young. Okay. Anyways, back to Launa and (Brad: Yeah) what she said. So, I actually wanted to bring this up again, because I think this cycle that she talks about can be, you can insert any word here. So she said the binge guilt shame self-worth cycle based on the confusion of conflicting diet advice is like we talked about, like all that comes from it because you start one diet, but then you have this other diet that didn’t work. So you feel like it’s you …

    Brad Crowell 8:47
    Coffee’s good. Coffee is bad. Wine is good. Wine is bad. (Lesley: Yeah) Eggs are good. Eggs are bad.

    Lesley Logan 8:53
    But you … but when no one ever judge is like the source of the information. They’re like, “Oh, I must not be drinking the coffee correctly. I must not be there’s something wrong with me.” (Brad: Like they make it their fault, right? Right. Yeah) Yes. Yes. Yes. And that is an interesting cycle confusion that can happen with anything. Maybe you’re reading three different business coaches, one person saying, “Instagram is dead.” The other person saying, “Instagram is amazing, screw email,” and like or maybe you’re trying to like find a date. (Lesley laughs) And like you’ve got one person saying, “It’s all about Hinge.” The other person saying, “Get outside and just walk up to people.” Like, that’s all confusing. You got to really, first of all, you have to understand that most often. It is rarely you and is often the design that is flawed …

    Brad Crowell 9:39
    Well, I would … I would I would advise you not to just walk up to people. If you’re looking for a date, like, “Hey, are you single?”

    Lesley Logan 9:46
    Well, they’re making a movie about someone just pulling someone out of the audience. So JLo is about to ruin your recommendation right there. (Brad: Yeah. I guess that is true.) But if you listen to Brad’s advice, don’t listen to JLo’s advice and you won’t be confused. (Lesley laughs) Anyways, um yeah, I just think that it’s really important that you get really close with … get, get really good at understanding where you are taking information and be cognizant of whose information you allow in. And then if things don’t work out, I mean, I don’t want to create a bunch of egotistical people who blame. But also, if you’re listening to this more than likely than not, you’re not a blamer, you’re shamer. And so you’re gonna take on the responsibility of the flaw of the design as opposed to a character flaw. So just, you know, stick with a stick, get someone’s advice, do your …

    Brad Crowell 10:33
    Well, let’s also talk about the, you know, she was talking about eating, right? Binge (Lesley: Yeah) then the guilt then the shame than the self worth conversation, the cycle, (Lesley: Yeah) right? So whatever it is, if it’s whether it’s food, or whether it’s something else, you know, when you you know, feel then like you do an action, then you feel guilty, then you feel shame over it. And then you you like, measure yourself against this feeling that you’ve had of like, you know, for me, when I was younger, it was like, my friends were drinking when I was a teenager, right? And I wanted to drink but then I felt guilty about wanting to drink because I knew I knew drinking was bad.

    Lesley Logan 11:13
    You just felt guilty (Brad: You know …) about wanting to do it.

    Brad Crowell 11:15
    Oh, yeah. I never actually did. Yeah, I didn’t drink until (Lesley: Wow) I was … No, I think I had my first drink when I was 19, which is still was illegal. But I was adult enough to like, make a decision at that point. But my friends started drinking younger than that. And I was like, “No, I can’t. I just can’t do it.” You know, because like, you know, I was like, my parents were like, “You can’t drink.” So I said “no.”

    Lesley Logan 11:32
    So then you’re shaming yourself. (Brad: Yeah. Then I would …) And thinking about wanting to do it.

    Brad Crowell 11:35
    Then I felt guilty for wanting to drink even because my friends were drinking. And I didn’t see they weren’t being ridiculous. They were just drinking, right? It wasn’t like they were getting plastered and driving cars into trees. They were just drinking and having a party, you know? And I thought, well, they don’t like they don’t look like anything is crazy. So maybe drinking isn’t bad. But then I felt guilty for wanting to drink. And then I felt shame around the whole thing. So I totally understand the cycle. (Brad laughs) (Lesley: Oh my gosh, poor young Brad) I’m gonna make myself also sound like a total nerd. This sounds like Hermione, talking to Ron about girls’ feelings. That’s what this sounds like. Yeah. Anyway, … all of those things can be felt by one person. Yes … (Brad and Lesley laughs)

    Lesley Logan 11:36
    Oh, my gosh, I love you so much. (Brad: Yeah) I mean, but what you’re, what you’re saying is you’ve accurately described how people feel when it comes to dieting, or how people feel about changes they want to make in their lives. And (Brad: Sure) I just think it’s so important that you just honor, you honor what your goals were originally and you love yourself, and then try not to take in too many different people’s advice at the same time on the same topic, because that’s gonna make you confused and also in shame. And that’s like, that sounds like a really sad place to be.

    Brad Crowell 12:44
    Yeah, it’s not a fun cycle.

    Lesley Logan 12:46
    Okay, what did you love?

    Brad Crowell 12:47
    Alright, so, you know, this is not something that I’m particularly good at doing, which is why I loved her saying it. She said, “Listen to what your body wants.” And I, this, for me, always comes back to sleep. For the first 35 years of my life, I decided I’ll sleep when I’m dead. You know, and I literally said that to everyone. I said that to myself. I said it out loud. It was just my mantra. And, you know, I ended up I shared this before on the pod, but I ended up in the hospital, when I was in college, because I didn’t sleep. I have, you know, like, like, fallen asleep at the wheel because I didn’t sleep. Only momentarily, but it has happened. You know, that’s terrifying. You know, so the reality is listening to what your body wants. You know, we, you might not understand it right away. But you will start to pick up the signs of, you know, for me what what’s like the most blatant sign that my body needs sleep is my nose will start to run. (Lesley: Really?) Yeah, my nose starts running (Lesley: Oh my gosh) for no reason. (Lesley: Next time.) I’m like, “Oh, I have to go to sleep” because I’m clearly past the point. My body’s like, “You’re done, dude.” You know, but they’re …

    Lesley Logan 14:05
    Wow! That is an incredible insight.

    Brad Crowell 14:07
    Yeah. I mean, I said again, I like was doing sleep deprivation for 35 years. So I know how it works, right? But you know, whatever it might be what maybe it’s hunger. Maybe it’s food, maybe it’s coffee. Maybe it’s bleary eyed. Maybe it’s your hearing, there are things that your body will tell you about how you’re treating it. And we often, it’s easy to ignore because we have the will power to march on or do whatever it might be. And what I started doing in the last like two years was when I and I’m like tired. In the middle of the afternoon, I will go take a nap. And then …

    Lesley Logan 14:46
    You’ve been doing really good with taking naps. When your body says to nap.

    Brad Crowell 14:50
    I don’t do that all the time. You know, but what I’ve what I’ve started to allow myself is downtime where I’m tired. For example last night I was tired. And it was literally 7:30. And I was like, “It’s time (Lesley: I know) to go to bed.”

    Lesley Logan 15:06
    Isn’t that so fun to go to bed? When you’re like, “Oh, it’s time to go to bed.”

    Brad Crowell 15:10
    I mean, maybe I don’t know, I think that that’s the weirdest thing because I probably could have watched. I mean, I can watch two hours, two movies in the time, I normally would have gone to bed, which is like a little after midnight, you know, but … (Lesley: Oh my God. But …) That’s the argument that goes through my head where I’m like, “This time, I’m wasting this time by sleeping.” Right? It’s like … and I understand, (Lesley: Okay) that’s clearly not the conversations you have.

    Lesley Logan 15:32
    … This is why he has an Oura ring. Because I need to get him and my dad understanding how important their sleep is. And now they’re like, “Oh, I got a 79. Oh, I got a 90.” And then they’re like, “How did I get a 90?” And now they’re actually trying to get more sleep in and they’re being conscious of it. (Brad: Yeah.) But yeah, I think, listen to what your body wants. That is also something that takes time y’all and like, but the more you do, the more you explore. And then you also it doesn’t have to be right, like if you maybe your nose doesn’t run when you’re sleeping, maybe it doesn’t maybe gets dried up, but like, just what is it like experiment is what I would say and so have fun with that experimenting and go, “Oh, I think I’m tired right now. Okay, we’ll go take a nap.” If you didn’t fall asleep, then maybe you were actually just needing some water, maybe need some vitamin D, try the different things until you figure out. (Brad: Yeah, that’s …) … another sign.

    Brad Crowell 16:20
    I think food is another one that we easily ignore. I know most of my colleagues and friends would just skip lunch when we were in the office. (Lesley: Yeah) Because you don’t have time and you’re running around …

    Lesley Logan 16:30
    All the stories we’re telling ourselves. (Brad: Yeah) And also, um, what was I going to say? Well, it ran out the window, but …

    Brad Crowell 16:38
    You talking about drinking water.

    Lesley Logan 16:39
    Oh, yeah. (Brad: You know) So thank you. Sometimes you think you’re hungry when you’re thirsty. That’s what the studies … say. (Brad: Oh, interesting) Yeah, that’s the study say. Okay, Amanda (Brad: Well …) goodluck with that one. (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 16:52
    Yeah. So anyway,

    Lesley Logan 16:53
    She sells sheasells down by the seashore (Brad and Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 16:57
    Oh, geez. (Lesley: All right. Here we go.) All right. So finally, let’s talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Launa McClung? Ah, right. That’s why I go to bed. So … (Lesley laughs)

    Lesley Logan 17:14
    I love you so much. I hope this is not anyone’s first time listening, because (Brad: Yeah) all this makes sense if you listen to us all the time…

    Brad Crowell 17:21
    Okay, so she, she did something that another thing that I was really bad at for a very long time, was setting boundaries. She said, you know, “When I started working for myself, I began to just tell my clients, I’m available nine to five, Monday to Friday.” And for her, she’s got a different setup than we do. She allows people to vox her (v o x which is a voxer, v o x e r is an app, whatever.) And it just is effectively like a direct message straight to her. And she said, she turns it off after 5pm, it’s off. And her clients because she’s repeated this consistently, know, if they hit her up on Saturday, she will not get back to them until Monday. And for her that has allowed her to step away from, you know, a being an entrepreneur working from home doing all the things that you know, especially in the last year, many of us have begun to do. But I don’t know about you, but I’ve noticed that I just work all the time now… like forever. I never seem to stop, you know …

    Lesley Logan 18:26
    Well, cuz you’ve always you’ve we’ve actually been you’ve been working from home since 2016 … (Brad: Yeah, yeah.) It wasn’t like you were like, had boundaries and didn’t have boundaries. And you’re like, “Oh, I need to go back to that.” It’s like, “Nope.” (Lesley laughs) It’s like you go work whenever you can sit at your desk.

    Brad Crowell 18:41
    Yeah, and she also did something that I I don’t know that I can do. (Brad laughs) She said she hides her phone. (Lesley: No, not impossi…. it’s not possible thing) And she said she actually like will be out with friends and the friends will know that she doesn’t have any idea or her phone is so she can’t be responsible for calling the Uber or even like telling you what time it is because she doesn’t have her phone. And that is I would say that’s a hurdle for me that’s a challenge …

    Lesley Logan 19:06
    … sounds like like free falling. It’s like, “What time is it? … What day is it?” Like (Brad: Yeah, yeah) “Where am I?” (Brad laughs) I feel like that when we are in Cambodia and I don’t have Wi-Fi and I’m like …

    Brad Crowell 19:18
    Right. You’re just out and about in the temples and it just happens to be the afternoon. (Lesley: Yeah) What time doesn’t matter. So I haven’t gotten that far yet. But I thought that was really impressive. And I I think it’s also a great tool if that is a vise for you to maybe try what Launa’s doing there.

    Lesley Logan 19:37
    Yeah, Okay my turn. I love this quote that she was, like she was we pulled for it. Like, “You have 100% survival rate of every situation, everything scary, everything big that you’ve ever been in.” Right? Can you like just picture that? Everything is scary, (Brad: 100% survival rate) everything, every situation that didn’t go the way you expected, all of them. If you’re listening to this, it means you’re alive and you survived all the bad days. So if you can count on one person, the entire world to be to put your best interest in, out front and foremost, it’s you. So if you’ve survived everything you’ve been through, you’ll survive this too. And if it’s up to you, you got really good odds. I freaking love it.

    Brad Crowell 20:19
    Yeah. So this … (Lesley: I love it so much.) this is the putting yourself first. (Lesley: Yes.) Yeah.

    Lesley Logan 20:25
    I know … Of course.

    Brad Crowell 20:27
    It’s brilliant. It’s also a great twist on the idea of it.

    Lesley Logan 20:30
    I think so because we’ve heard like, you’ve survived 100% of all bad days.

    Brad Crowell 20:36
    No, I was gonna say, you know, we think that putting ourselves first is selfish. (Lesley: Oh) Right? And so this is, this is effectively while the argument there is our argument against that is it’s not selfish. You have to sew into yourself in order to serve others better. (Lesley: Yeah) Launa’s argument to that is, if there’s a horse to bet on in the race, it’s you because you’re still here and you’ve survived, you know, through (Lesley: Yeah) all the things, whatever the things are, you have made it through. So who would you rather bet on somebody else or yourself?

    Lesley Logan 21:08
    Right? Like, how would you rather put all your stuff into somebody else? When things go wrong, you can bet on you. Yeah, (Brad: Yeah) Yeah. I anyways, all of it. I’m into. And I just think it’s such a great reminder when we’re going through stuff or we have to choose, sometimes you have to choose between putting yourself first and doing something for someone else. And this might be the reminder that you need to put yourself first a little bit more than you think. (Brad: Yeah) Probably more than you think.

    Brad Crowell 21:34
    Yeah. 100%

    Lesley Logan 21:36
    All right. I’m Lesley Logan.

    Brad Crowell 21:37
    And I’m Brad Crowell.

    Lesley Logan 21:38
    Thank you so much for joining us today. We are freaking grateful that you’re here. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Let us know by sending us a DM on the @be_it_pod on Instagram. And we’ll catch you on the next episode.

    Brad Crowell 21:51
    Bye for now.

    Lesley Logan
    That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

    Lesley Logan
    ‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

    Brad Crowell
    It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

    Lesley Logan
    Kevin and Bel at Disenyo handle all of our audio editing and some social media content.

    Brad Crowell
    Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

    Lesley Logan
    Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week so you can.

    Brad Crowell
    And to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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