What Illusion is

Keeping You Stuck?

Ep. 78 with Lesley & Brad

“Ego is the illusion of safety.”

Brad Crowell

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Show Notes

Is your ego holding you back? Is the illusion of safety keeping you in burnout? In today’s episode LL and Brad discuss how acknowledging, accepting, and creating an alternative action can transform your life in more ways than one.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • How to overcome burnout
  • Pain, suffering, and ego
  • The BEING method
  • The three A’s: Acknowledge, Accept, Alternative Action

    Episode References/Links:

    Transcript

    Lesley Logan
    Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

    —-

    Lesley Logan 0:45
    Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the captivating convo I have with Lena Franklin in our last episode. If you haven’t listened to that episode, that interview, feel free to pause this now and then travel back in time to listen to that one. Or listen (Brad: back in time) to this one first… Yeah, well, you know, it’s it is sort of. It happened already. Or listen to this one and then go listen to that one. I think you have to listen that one anyways. But you know, you’re already on this one. So do it backwards. It’s all good. I, we are, y’all we’re in the middle of the Full Body in 15. And it is so, so fun. It’s it’s just amazing to help people feel Pilates in their body in a really unique way. I think a lot of people just assume that Pilates is an ab exercise only or just for women or just for dancers or just for flexible people. And what’s been really fun is watching super strong people, super athletic people, like actually realize that they’re missing strength in awesome places and also people who are just trusting themselves to work out for the first time. So I’m having a good time.

    Brad Crowell 1:52
    We’re having a good time.

    Lesley Logan 1:53
    We’re having a good time. And that’s an inside joke for Brad and I, if you didn’t get that. Don’t worry about it. (Brad laughs) Speaking of inside, we’re literally days away from our business retreaters showing up at our house.

    Brad Crowell 2:09
    Yeah, Profitable Pilates. Our first retreat for Profitable Pilates. (Lesley: Yeah) And it happens to be here with us in Vegas.

    Lesley Logan 2:17
    Yeah, yep, yep. So anyways, it sold out so fast. If you had never heard about it. (Lesley laughs) Well, you’re not alone. It just happened really quickly. And we are so excited because we have people from all over the world showing up. And we have like four and a half days of workshops and self care, and photo shoots. And I’m just, I’m excited because also our teammates, our team members are coming in, two of them. So we actually get to work with our peeps.

    Brad Crowell 2:44
    Yeah. (Lesley: in person) It’s really exciting. It, it definitely was like hardly, I feel like we hardly announced it and it filled up so fast. And I’m going to tell you a secret.

    Lesley Logan 3:00
    Oh. Do I know the secret?

    Brad Crowell 3:02
    Yeah, you might. (Lesley: Okay) Well, here’s the deal. We would love for you to come and dig into your business for five days and four nights… Four days and three nights? (Lesley: Yeah) Four days. (Lesley: If they arrive on a Wednesday.) They leave on Sunday. (Lesley: They leave on a Sunday.) Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) Anyway, we would love for you to come join us and dig into your business. We are going to be running another one, later this year. (Lesley: Oh I did. We already talked about this.) Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah, I’m so excited.) And you can get on the waitlist by going to profitablepilates.com/retreats. But keep in mind, I think that we’re going to open the doors, like the first week of March to get your deposits in for the next retreat. (Lesley: Well….) So mark your calendar now. That was the secret. The secret is that nobody knows this. But we’re opening the doors.

    Lesley Logan 3:53
    I didn’t know that either. (Brad laughs) So, oh my goodness. All right, well get on the waitlist because the waitlist people will have first access to to sign up. So anyways. Alright, before we get into our recap with Lena, what is our audience question?

    Brad Crowell 4:08
    Okay, this was a really, this was a really heartfelt question from someone who joined us in Agency Mini recently. And then also from some of our Agency members, where we coach people on their fitness businesses. And the question was, “How do you avoid burnout? Or what do you do, if you already are in burnout?”

    Lesley Logan 4:35
    Yeah, so this is, I think this is a really important question. And I also do think that you may need to change this as you go through life because your needs are going to change. So what worked for you before might not work for you now? And it’s just really important to ask yourself like, “How do I want to feel right now?” And then it’s a little easier to work backwards and the other thing I would say is, if you’re in burnout currently, I need you to actually, like you actually, they actually have to stop like, “Stop.” You cannot even scale back, you have to do a hard stop, which is going to be scary and hard. But you’re going to have to like, just call up all your peeps for the next 48 hours and say, “I’m so sorry, I’ll be back on this date.” Don’t even like reschedule, nothing, it’d be really awesome if you could do this on a mass email, if you had a newsletter. But anyway, what I want you to do is find a way to quickly put the pause on everything. I need you to do things that actually make you feel good. Take a nap, right? Take a long bath, go to a spa. Like really, you need to just pour into yourself, eat all of your favorite foods, like take some time. And I need you then to look back and think about when was the last time you didn’t feel like you were in burnout? Go all the way back. And then you actually have to figure out like, what were the red flags that you ignored? That is advice I got for my therapist regarding dating, and it helps with burnout as well. (Brad: Hmm) And then, and then you’ll actually have those signs and you tell the people who are around you, the people who are near and dear to you. These are the red flags that I’m in burnout. (Brad: Hmm) And that way, you can start to spot them as they come up. Now you have to choose to ignore them or see them as a sign. But that you know, that’s a different question that might require some actual therapy on that to figure out like, why you keep ignoring the red flags, when you see them. But that’s what I would say to avoid to when you’re in burnout, you do a hard stop, which is very scary and might even sound really privileged. You might be like, “Lesley, I need the money.” And I’m going to tell you, you need to be alive. (Brad: Yeah) And burnout is like, I’m not being dramatic here. Burnout is real, it’s stress and 99% of all illnesses, cancers or diseases are all from stress. So we need to put the pot. As far as …

    Brad Crowell 6:54
    Yeah, also, I mean, burnout, burnout is like a, you know, it’s a precursor to a panic attack that can land you in the hospital. (Lesley: Right) You know, like, it’s, this isn’t just like, “Oh, I’m mentally drained.” You know, so if, you know, you’re, like, completely fried. Like, I think we were talking about this in our, in our last recap, (Lesley: Mm-hmm) you know, effectively, we’re talking about overwhelm. (Lesley: Yeah) And with overwhelm, we were talking about how it’s a, it’s kind of a, it’s a learned behavior, and we assume that like, we should be, we assume that we should be maintaining the consistency of like, you know, our current, like, effective. Like, I’m going to, I’m going to start, I’m going to start the whole thought back over, because I’m going down this weird road, when we kick it into fifth gear to get through the shit. You can’t stay in fifth gear forever. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) Okay, that’s like, it’s that starts the burnout process, but the overwhelm processes when you’re in fifth gear, and you’re like, “I’m losing it, I’m not going to be able to manage all the things I just feel like, aahhh. And I’ve never had the chance to, like, sit down with myself and I barely get the breakfast.” And you know, and, you know, the reality is we, it’s a learned behavior, (Lesley: Yeah) we put ourselves back into this situa… situation, because the other side of overwhelm is busyness and busyness feels productive. Busyness feels like we’re making progress and moving it forward, and we’re doing the thing, whatever the thing is… (Lesley: Might not be able moving anything forward.) Right. And and, and, you know, we talk about this all the time with our coaching clients, it might be that you know, you’re working in your business instead of working on your business. And what I mean by that is working in your business could be scheduling your clients and, you know, reorganizing your desk and like getting through your emails and all the things that you have to do anyway. (Lesley: Right) You’re not necessarily moving your business (Lesley: Well…) forward, you know, working on it.

    Lesley Logan 8:54
    All those things first, feel safe. (Brad: Yeah …) And safety doesn’t actually mean you won’t burnout. In fact, they have done studies that your comfort zone actually gets smaller over time. So what what actually was in your comfort zone a year ago, because technology, things advance, your comfort zone actually gets smaller. So as far as how do you avoid the burnout? You have to have to be filling your cup first. (Brad: Yeah) If you’re filling your cup first, you are not going to, to actually get to a place of bur… of a burnout where you have to do… a whole stop. You can do some little pauses or slow downs. You can reevaluate, reassess, correct and continue. But like avoiding, like the best way to avoid burnout is just make sure that like your priorities, your values, you (Brad: Yeah) are in your schedule first. So, I I feel for anyone who’s in it, I’ve been there. Well it will happen because again, what leads you to bur… like, how you recover from burnout and stuff, that that can change over time is what your needs are. But if you are filling your cup first and you’re constantly asking yourself, like, “How can I like make sure that like, my cup is full?” You’ll, you’ll do some a lot of adjusting along the way and you don’t, burnout doesn’t have to be part of your life. Like, just because other people are in burnout doesn’t mean like you have to get there to be part of society. In fact, I think society better if we all could avoid it in the first place.

    Brad Crowell 10:14
    I was just talking to someone who moved to Paris, and she said, “The French have a completely different perspective than Americans (Lesley: Yeah) about work.” And she’s like, “Nobody works on the weekends here.” People people like …

    Lesley Logan 10:28
    You know it’s actually, like, if you’re like, emailing outside of work hours, it’s a little weird.

    Brad Crowell 10:33
    Right. Like, people clock out, and they’re done for the day. And you know, you know, especially with COVID, and working from home and all the things like, I mean, I feel like I work 24/7 now, you know, and that’s… (Lesley: It’s so easy we can do it.) Yeah. And also, there’s no break between, I was just listening to another pod talk about this, where, you know, before we at least had our commute, where we used to bitch and moan about our commute, but it was a breather between, you know, get up and flurry around in the morning. And then you have like 30 minutes, or whatever your (Lesley: Yeah) commute is to get to the office and you can think and you’re generally alone, or whatever, and then you then you hit the office and then on the way home, you have this another pause. And we don’t have that anymore, because our commute is, (Brad laughs) I got up, I went to the kitchen and then I went to my (Lesley: We do…) my desk.

    Lesley Logan 11:18
    have a very long hallway. (Brad: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah) We have a long hallway. (Brad: It’s like 15 steps.) Yeah. But what I would say is, (Brad laughs) if you are like, “Lesley, I hear you. I hear you, Brad. Like, okay, but like, I don’t like my schedule doesn’t allow me to be in it.” Okay, profitablepilates.com/gemstones, watch it, (Brad: Yes) free webinar on how to have an ideal schedule.

    Brad Crowell 11:34
    I was going exactly there. (Lesley: Yeah) If you want to know how, you know, like, because maybe you can’t just like, I was thinking maybe you can replace yourself at some of the things that you’re doing. You know, and you can… (Lesley: That’s more advance …) you can outsource, you can whatever. But if you don’t have that luxury, then the best thing to do is go watch Lesley’s free webinar on how do you prioritize yourself first in your own schedule, so that you can still get all the things done, and go to profitablepilates.com/gemstones. (Lesley: Yeah) So.

    Lesley Logan 12:07
    Alright, I love the questions. You all can send your questions into the @be_it_pod on Instagram. We love them or your bold moments. We also love sharing those as well. So keep them coming. If you’re like, “What the heck is Instagram?” You know, I’m sure somewhere in the shownotes (Brad laughs) as a contact thing, and you can just hit that or you can just put in your reviews (Brad: Yeah) on Apple and iTunes. Not only does it help me, but then I look at read your bold moment and I’ll share with everybody.

    Brad Crowell 12:30
    Yeah. All right. Now let’s talk about Lena Franklin’s (Lesley: She’s amazing.) Lena… It was a great, great interview. (Lesley: Thank you) Lena Franklin is a Modern Medicine Woman. She’s a Transpersonal Psychotherapist and a Transformational Speaker. She has a Bachelors in Psychology and a Masters in Social Work. Her passion for bringing ancient eastern practices and healing approaches to our clients led her to create the East Institute with her husband, guiding individuals to optimize their best human embodiment. Through meditation, Lena now teaches others how to optimize and transform their pain and suffering into their greatest strength.

    Lesley Logan 13:11
    Yeah, she’s just really cool and I love how life just like, set like, I mean, it’s one thing she also said like everything has happening like in a divine timing for you. And her like just like who her parents were and how she was even raised. So she could be this person. Like, it’s just really beautiful. So one thing I liked that she said was resistance points are really access points into transformation. (Brad: Hmm) The reason I like this is there’s like cliche saying, like, “What you resist, persists.” But actually we who do hear this say, “What you resist is an assistance for where you need to go.” And in Pilates when I’m teaching people (Brad: Oh) the exercises you don’t like are the ones you need.

    Brad Crowell 13:54
    It was, it was Sharon won’t the sculptor. Sharon… (Lesley: Oh, from The Artist’s Way.) Yeah. And she she’s doing The Artist’s Way program…

    Lesley Logan 14:04
    Yeah. We’re studying with her. (Brad: Yeah. Gainsbourg.) So now… (Brad: Sharon Gainsbourg) Yeah. If you ever listened to an episode, I said, “I didn’t actually read the book.” We’re reading the book now. So we just do things backwards. We started the art and started the pages and now we’re in the book. Anyways, yeah, so what so she, so Lena said like resistant points are really access points into transformation. So think of them as a flashlight. What you’re resisting is the assistance for what you need to be doing. In Pilates what you don’t like your body needs. So what what Lena is saying is like, think of whatever your resistance like a little flashlight on, “Oop, this is where I’m supposed to go for to be transformed.” So I just really enjoyed that because I do think we avoid the things we need. And it’s so funny because as soon as you do them and you have that transformation, like why I was like… I … I made fun of Pilates, and then I went I was like, “This is the best thing that ever happened to me.” (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 14:59
    Well, this kind of goes hand in hand with another thing she said, where basically, pain is inevitable. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) But suffering is optional. (Lesley: Yeah) And I thought (Lesley: It’s a choice) I thought, “wow, that’s interesting.” She said, “Everything is working in support of our evolution. It’s not happening to you. It’s happening for you.” That’s like a whole lot of heady stuff right there. But pain is a teaching tool. Pain is inevitable. But suffering is optional. And I thought that we were just talking about dwelling in the, in dwelling in the moment. I want to say again, last episode. (Lesley: great episode) Yeah. (Lesley and Brad laughs) And actually, but or it would have been the last recap episode, but you know, it, then if pain is inevitable and suffering is optional. Okay. So suffering is dwelling on the pain, but pain becomes the, it’s the access point to transformation, like you’re just talking about.

    Lesley Logan 15:58
    Yeah. Um, so I just, I think, what I love is that she said that, and she is a woman who lost her mom at a very young age. (Brad: Yeah) Like an early adult. (Brad: Yeah, very unexpected.) Very unexpected. And I and I, the reason I bring that up is I think a lot of people, including myself, will say, “Everything’s happening for you.” And on the outside, (Brad: Sure) you’d be like, “Okay, Les easy for you to say.” Well, yeah, cuz you don’t might not know all the things I’ve been through. But specifically in this interview, you heard her say she lost her mom, very unexpectedly. And that loss is exactly what put her on the track that she’s doing right now. (Brad: Yeah) And so if sure, if her mom had not passed, then the world might not have Lena, and what she’s doing to help people. So anyways, whatever, you’re resisting little flashlight, little flashlight. What did you love?

    Brad Crowell 16:47
    Yeah, so I, I really loved she kind of, well, she talked to… for a little bit, but she said, “Our ego is actually the illusion of safety.” Okay (Lesley: Hmm. I believe that. I get it. I get it) So, yeah. So you know, when we think we’re in control, or we think we’ve got, you know, we’ve got a handle on things or whatever, you know, or maybe our ego is causing us to, you know, act irrationally or whatever. But so our ego is the illusion of safety. And I thought, first off, I thought, you know, it made me think about the book – Ego is the Enemy.

    Lesley Logan 17:26
    Oh, I know, I need to reread that. It’s been too long.

    Brad Crowell 17:28
    And it made me remember the definition of ego is not the one that I like… when he defined ego as the enemy in the book. Or when he defined ego in the book, (sorry, Ego is the Enemy.) He basically said, “We think of ego as like, like bravado and arrogance,” and like rrrrr, bang your chest kind of like, you know, like, kind of a thing. And he said, but the that is one extreme. The other extreme is being like completely diminutive and being like, like, “I’m not worthy,” or looking down. (Lesley: Yes, yes) Like feeling like you’re not valuable enough, or whatever. He said, “That is just as much ego. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) It’s just the other extreme of what we imagine ego is. It’s all ego.” (Lesley: Yeah) And…

    Lesley Logan 18:17
    …I mean, we’ll also to… want to talk about like, this is the my my brain went here. People pleasing is a form of control.

    Brad Crowell 18:24
    Yeah. And that is, that’s also (Lesley: ego) ego. (Lesley: It’s crazy.) Yeah.

    Lesley Logan 18:28
    It’s crazy. We think ego is egotistical, but really, it’s just like, it’s all the things that are actually keeping you from, like, being here on this planet. And then the real thing, it’s, it’s… everybody needs to read that book. Anyways…

    Brad Crowell 18:42
    Yeah. And, and what I thought was really neat about what Lena said is, she said that we don’t want to demonize the ego. We just want to soften it enough so that our true authentic self can shine through.

    Lesley Logan 18:54
    I love that she said that because and a lot of the studies that I’m doing and in a lot of the groups that I’m in, I can hear people demonizing the ego and like, almost aspiring to be like in some, like, alien parallel universe. And I’m like, “No, I don’t think that that’s a light enlightenment either.” (Lesley laughs) But I think it is it’s, you know, because also, part of the ego does keep you safe in some ways. Like, (Brad: Yeah) you know, it’s just that when we lean too much into it, and we are like riding on the control of it and using it, that’s when it gets to the thing. So I do love it (Brad: Yeah) she soften it enough.

    Brad Crowell 19:28
    Yeah. Yeah. Well, let’s talk about the BE IT action items. (Lesley: Yes) So, (Lesley: You go first) what bold, executable intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your combo with Lena Franklin? Well, right off the gate, she said she had like a systematic approach, which I think that the conversation kind of took you away from concluding because she covered “BEING,” B E I N G. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And we got through B E I and N, but we never actually heard about G. So…

    Lesley Logan 19:58
    Oh (Brad laughs) … I knew what the G was for growth.

    Brad Crowell 20:03
    Maybe it was growth. Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) Actually, you know what… it’s what’s naturally happening. And we’re gonna we’re gonna call it growth. I love that. (Lesley: I’m almost positive. Lena if I’m wrong, just hit us up.) Alright. Well, so B is being aware of your thoughts. E is understanding that enlightenment comes through awareness of your thoughts. And then we have I is igniting your intention, now that you’re aware of your thoughts. And then finally they … then they have N is what is naturally going to happen now that you’ve ignited that attention. And then lastly, yeah, growth. (Lesley: Yeah) So BEING. And I thought that was interesting, just to think through that path.

    Lesley Logan 20:42
    Well, I mean, just even being aware of your thoughts, like if you just (Brad: Yeah) all start there, like because I understand, like, “Oh, my God, that’s so many letters.” If you just start with awareness of your thoughts, then you’ve already done E, by the way, cuz awareness is the thing. It’s a domino effect because the more even like, when I started The Artist’s Way, I just did the pages, just doing the pages, I became aware of like, “Wow, I keep having the same fear.” (Brad: Hmm) And then you’re like, “What’s the natural thing? Why do I have this fear? What is this fear? (Brad: Right) Is this fear real?” Like you just… like it is a domino effect. So if you can just actually start with being aware of your thoughts, you are going to like, literally see growth 10 times over so fast.

    Brad Crowell 21:24
    Yeah. And we were just talking about that last episode, too. We’re talking about anger. People just like, feel angry, but they don’t think, “Why am I angry?” (Lesley: Yeah) And this, I think, is like, you know, goes hand in hand.

    Lesley Logan 21:37
    Maybe that’s why we have so many different versions of being curious as BE IT action items from all of our guests. (Brad: Hmm) Like, the curiosity like, and I think like, even Joanna Vargas is one who really taught us as like, questions, questions, questions, question marks are the best thing ever. Like she’s all the asking questions. (Brad: Right) And, you know, put a question mark on as many things as you can tomorrow, because you’ll become aware of your thoughts.

    Brad Crowell 21:58
    Yeah, well BEING, I thought that was really, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, clever. And it’s a great, it’s a great way to think about that. What was your biggest takeaway?

    Lesley Logan 22:06
    Okay, come on. Three A’s. (Brad: Yeah) Acknowledge, Accept, Alternative action. Boom! I mean, you know how much I am about taking action, messy action, everyone, because that’s where clarity comes from. So acknowledge what is happening, like acknowledge that like, like, it’s not like, where it’s not like when you have when you soften the ego, you don’t blow up at something. You know, you blow up with the dog. You’re like, “Oh, my God,” and then it’s just like, “Okay. Oh, I did not actually like how I handled that.” (Brad: Yeah) And I accept myself for handling because I’m a human being.

    Brad Crowell 22:37
    Yeah. She said, “Acknowledge the thoughts you don’t want to feel. Acknowledge to the judgment. (Lesley: Yeah) Acknowledged the negative, negativity.”

    Lesley Logan 22:44
    Yeah. And then take an alternative action. And …

    Brad Crowell 22:47
    With well, then you have to accept. Right? So (Lesley: Oh so sorry) acknowledge …

    Lesley Logan 22:51
    … I thought I said that already. I accept …

    Brad Crowell 22:53
    You’re accepting it with compassion. (Lesley: Yes) Yeah.

    Lesley Logan 22:56
    Yeah. With compassion, space and grace, space and grace. You’re going to be imperfect because remember, perfect is boring. Nobody wants to friends with perfect. I was on something last night, and we were talking about how like, “What am I doing yesterday? Was on someone else’s podcast. I don’t remember the day.” Anyways. Oh, it’s on my own podcast. I was interviewing people on my own podcast. (Brad laughs) Anyways, those episodes will come out soon. Whoo. And I was like, somebody brought up like, think about those perfect people. Like, do you want to be friends with them? And it’s, we really, like accept that you’re not perfect, because it’s you, it’s impossibly perfect. (Brad: Yeah) And like you could not and perfect is like in context. So like, accept that you’re not perfect. That wasn’t how you wanted to handle it. You’re a human being space and grace. And then, and then we come up with an alternative action. So (Brad: Yeah) yelled at the dog didn’t like that. So okay. (Brad: Yeah) Space and grace, she was barking nonstop. And she didn’t stop. And then what do I want to do instead? And it’s like, okay, kinder, softer voice, “Get the F over here, please.” (Brad and Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 23:57
    Please. (Lesley: Please) Comma please. (Lesley: Comma please.)

    Lesley Logan 24:00
    So anyways, I hope that I feel like that is like…It’s simple.

    Brad Crowell 24:04
    Acknowledge, accept and alternative action.

    Lesley Logan 24:06
    It’s simple. It’s not easy. But it’s it is a simple thing. And even if you start with acknowledge just like becoming aware, (Brad: Right) feeling good. All (Brad: Yeah) right. I’m Lesley Logan.

    Brad Crowell 24:15
    And I’m Brad Crowell.

    Lesley Logan 24:16
    This is so fun. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for listening to Lena Franklin’s interview. Please tell us your takeaways. Post a screenshot, text it to a friend, you don’t even know how to post a screenshot, just text it to a friend. You are how this podcast gets out there and we want what, we all want to hear what your takeaways are. We want to hear what your BE IT moments where, your bold moments and so we can catch you on the next episode.

    Brad Crowell 24:37
    Bye for now.

    Lesley Logan
    That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

    Lesley Logan
    ‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

    Brad Crowell
    It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

    Lesley Logan
    Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

    Brad Crowell
    Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

    Lesley Logan
    Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

    Brad Crowell
    And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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