Turn Your Customers into

Powerful Brand Advocates

Ep. 212 with Lesley & Brad

“One of the greatest things you could do for yourself with any goal you have is figure out where support can come from.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

Join Lesley and Brad as they look back at their conversation with Brittany Hodak about turning customers into superfans. Brittany’s approach to creating loyal customers is a game-changer that will benefit any industry.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • It’s a choice not to be overwhelmed.
  • The benefit of asking for help soon enough.
  • Support can come in a variety of different ways.
  • Any industry should rethink how to improve customer experience.
  • Focus on keeping the customers you already have.
  • Customer service can be summarized in four words: Be kind and listen.

Episode References/Links:

Lesley Logan: The whole point of having customers is so they get you more customers. So if you actually focus on the ones you got, then they’ll be so excited to share their experience with other people, and then you can have more customers and you don’t have to focus on both things. You can focus on one thing and the other, and that the results of that are more customers.


Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Brad Crowell: And stick around to the very end because we got some outtakes that’s been happening. …(Lesley: There’s always outtakes. Um, and the team does collect them for bloopers on the YouTube, but uh, we’re adding them into the end of the pod because you know what you need to know that we are not perfect. You’re not perfect, and) we’re enjoying the process…(Lesley: and we are enjoying that.

So have a good laugh on our behalf. Love you.)

Lesley Logan: Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap, where my co-host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the candid convo I had with Brittany Hodak in our last episode.

If you haven’t yet listened to that episode, you can pause this, listen to that one, then come back and listen to this one. You can listen to this one, then listen to that one. You can also listen to this on the O P C app. Oh, and it’s easy. Really easy to see which episode do you want to choose and you can choose your own adventure and then let us know how you do it.

Um, anyways, today is national No Dirty Dishes day. And, uh, I’m gonna be it till I see it on this. So I’m hopeful and I’m gonna celebrate that I remembered to do the dishes. And even if I only wash one dish, it’s pretty badass. But according to the calendar, make your sink happy. Wash your dishes. Uh, we’re currently

Brad Crowell: in some… wait, did you say make your sink happy?

I thought you said, make your spouse happy. No. Make your sink happy.

Lesley Logan: Sink happy. No, baby. We’ll call my dad over to wash these dishes. He, you guys Okay. This is a side note. My father like has to be helpful and he cannot handle dirty dishes. He hates the dirty ketchup and he picks us up for the gym all the time, and he literally will like, if we’re like taking too long, he’ll get up and start washing the dishes. Yep. Because he just can’t handle any dirty dishes in the sink. It’s true. Yeah. Uh, okay. Anyways, we’re currently in Seoul and we are at the Allerton Pilates on tour having the best time and yeah, flashcards. So if you are in Seoul, we’ve got them at the P O T, uh, the right now in real time. Um, Next month is June and we are doing a Profitable Pilates workshop again.

Um, we’re really excited about this. Uh, the topic is, um, T B D, but if you are on the wait list, uh, for this workshop, then you are absolutely going to be able to help us choose, or you’ll find out first. Um, but we’re doing this again. It’s gonna be a different topic than we had before. Profit. P R F I T. So a different way of spelling profit prfitbiz/workshops.

Just go on the show notes. It’s right there. Yeah. Uh, July, uh, the UK Mullet tour is, uh, selling out actually. So yeah. At the time that we’re recording this, we are half sold out and that is, uh, well,

Brad Crowell: Amazing. We’re so fired up. We can’t wait to be there to see everyone. To be up in Leeds to hang with Claire to see her amazing studio.

(Lesley: I know, I know.) Um, and, you know, it’s, it’s a hop, skip, and a jump, uh, from Ireland, Scotland, and of course, the uk. And it’s

Lesley Logan: also like a train right away from London. So if you’re traveling in, super easy, we’re coming down from Scotland. So, um, Guy is not coming with us and yeah, and that’s why cuz she barks. Um, uh, then in August we are going to go on a West Coast tour.

So this is super exciting. We’re packing the van, we are bringing the dogs on this one, and we are going all up and down the West Coast. You’ll want to go to opc.me/tour if you want to get, um, on the wait list so you don’t miss out where the stops are. You can get your ticket. Um, September, we are in Poland and you can actually buy your tickets now for that.

That link is also on the show notes cuz it, cuz these links are long guys. So we’re just gonna put them in show notes. Um, October. Cambodia.

Brad Crowell: Cambodia, cannot wait to go back.

Lesley Logan: Freaking goodness. I was looking at pictures the other day and I was like, yeah, we, we live there sometimes. So, so stoked to go.

Amazing women already signed up on this trip. My mom shout out to my mom. She was so excited to go. …(Brad: Oh, she’s tried so hard). She, she just has to call in sick is really what’s gotta happen. So, um, and her, her, her

Brad Crowell: school’s vacation. She’s a teacher. Her school’s vacation days with a week before we’re there.

Yeah. They also

Lesley Logan: have other time, paid time off. Like they also have that, you know. Yeah, we,

Brad Crowell: we talked about it. Yeah, we, we spoke about

Lesley Logan: it. Yeah. We’re gonna we’re gonna work it out. Yeah. Uh, November is Miami. I can’t think of a better time to be in Miami, but November like …(Brad: Yeah, it’s gonna be nice.) So fun. So, and that’s gonna be for the balanced body, P O T and some other stuff that Erica and I are doing there together, um, at some club Pilates.

So, you know, make sure you hit us up so you’d never miss out on these good things. Um, basically like I said last time, ah, see you in real life. So come, come when we’re there, because I don’t know when we’re coming back. Anyways, before we dig into the interview with Brittany, Brad, you have an audience

Brad Crowell: question?

Yeah, we sure do. Um, okay. This is from Teresa. …(Lesley: Yeah. OPC Teresa). Yeah. She said I have a strap. And I do use it however I want, I think she’s referring to a strap on the mat. On the mat, fyi. If you have a yoga style mat, there’s no strap attached to it.

If you have like the really, uh, the firm Pilates mat, it may have a strap on the bottom. So she says,

I do have a strap. Uh, and I, uh, I do use it however, uh, how can I use it or not to connect more to my inner thighs during the rollup and neck pole. But, uh, uh, something between, uh, do, should I put something between my ankles and feet to squeeze?

Lesley Logan: So, okay, this is a Pilates question and I loved it so much when we got it that I was like, well, this is a great, we can absolutely talk it on the pod, but also you gotta see it to believe it.

So, um, if you go to the, uh, onlinepilatesclasses.com, YouTube channel, and I’m sure we can put the link to the actual video. We did a live, I answered this as a live question on YouTube, so we’ll, we’ll find that and put in the show notes. But, um, cuz then you can see it. So here’s the deal. If you have a mat with a strap, Um, your inner thigh connection actually has to be something that is innate.

It’s natural curing that you have, so your legs will be apart and you can’t squeeze them together. But you try, you have this energetic try and this also outer thigh thing. This is so hard to explain on the podcast. This is why I filmed it as a tutorial on OPCs YouTube for this exact reason. But here is the deal.

Do not use the strap to push out and squeeze in. You are like, you’re actually playing tug of war with yourself and it’s not gonna work. So what I had suggested in the YouTube uh, video is this, if you need more outer thigh connection, you use the strap. Nothing else. And what you can do is use a ball or a block between your legs for things like the roll up or other exercises where you squeeze the legs together, spine twist.

This way you’re strengthening the inner thigh connection, but then you can use the strap for what it’s for on the neck pole, which is to help emphasize the outer thigh connection. And then you hope and pray that your inner thighs remember how to work without a prop. So here’s, I love, um, props for flair, for helping you access different parts of your body, but I also like taking them away so we can see if we can call upon that strength without the prop. So that’s what neck pull is. Neck pull is asking you to call upon the strength of your inner thighs. Mm-hmm. Without having access to squeezing them and …(Lesley: Oh, okay.) Yeah. So, uh, use the strap for neck pull.

I swear to God I like it more. You’ll still won’t love it, but you’ll like it more. And then work your inner thighs and other exercises where there’s more access to that, and then challenge yourself. Um, but if this is all gibberish to you, no problem. Totally understand. That’s why I made a video. Go watch it.

Brad Crowell: Thank you. Yeah, actually we’re gonna, we’re gonna put that video in the show notes, um, so that you don’t have to like, try to envision this. If you don’t know anything about Pilates, you could ignore this whole entire thing.

Lesley Logan: Anyways, um, we have a, we have a, uh, a three-part series that is free. It’s called Full Body in 15. You can go to fullbodyinfifteen.com and I actually teach you how to do about 20 exercises at a level that anyone can do and it will help you kind of understand. It will help you get ready for a Pilates class anywhere, whether it’s with me or in person anywhere. So if this was gibberish to you, go to fullbodyinfifteen.com and if you understood this completely, thanks.

Brad Crowell: You’re amazing.

The other thing is too, um, PS if you want to have questions, uh, if you have questions about your own personal practice and you want. Uh, some expert eyes on them. Uh, join O P C because O P C members get to send in questions every Friday or any time during the week. But on Fridays, our teachers will be reviewing, uh, any submissions from our members and answering them in the private group.

So this is a great reason, uh, to, you know, to be in O P C, (…) Awesome resource and yeah, literally nobody else is doing this. Um, and that’s why we’re doing it. Yeah. Because why not? Everybody has questions about their practice. So it’s a perfect opportunity. And if you’re a member and you’re not taking advantage of it, you should do it.

Yeah. Um, so, uh, great question, Teresa. Thank you so much for asking that. Hang on, we’ll be right back.

Okay. Now let’s talk about Brittany Hodak, the Creative Mind behind Super Fans, the book and a powerhouse keynote speaker.

Uh, Brittany is a fountain of wisdom when it comes to customer experience and also gleaning some of her most valuable lessons of life, uh, from her kids, uh, specifically her son, whose name is kadoh spelled backwards is It’s Hodak Hodak. Yeah. Kadoh Hodak. Well, I guess

Lesley Logan: Hodak spelled backwards.

Brad Crowell: Kadoh sorry. Hodak.


Lesley Logan: It’s okay. Yeah, so he’s Kadoh Hodak. Oh my goodness,

Brad Crowell: babe. He’s a palindrome. I’m looking at it and it messed with my brain. Yeah, I know,

Lesley Logan: I know. I asked her, I gotta tell you in real time, I had an interview with her yesterday. And I asked her, she brought up about Kadoh, and I asked her like, where did that name come from?

And she’s like, oh, it’s Hodak spelled backwards. It’s a palindrome. So I was like, That’s fucking cool. Everyone’s doing it. Yeah. That is not how, like not every last name could be a name like that. So that’s cool.

Um, so I really love that she brought this up and this is actually, I really, what I love really about this is that she got this tip from a course, she didn’t even finish.

So for anybody who’s ever bought something out there in the world and not finished it and gone, oh my God, I never finished things, I bet you got something amazing. I bet you got a fucking gem from what you did listen to. And so she bought Marie Forleo’s course and really helped her. She said she didn’t finish, but in the first couple of minutes she says, I don’t, Marie says, I don’t do overwhelm. And so she said it, uh, Brittany said it’s a choice to be overwhelmed or not overwhelmed. So being overwhelmed is not beneficial. It doesn’t help you get anything done better. It doesn’t actually help you think of anything to get done better. It’s not a good mental state, so she doesn’t do it.

And um, I think that’s a really cool, like, if it, like, it’s like a really cool like choice. Like I don’t do overwhelm. So if you’re feeling overwhelmed, like, well, I actually don’t do overwhelm. So like, what can I do to fix this thing? And you, you save so much time on like, not dealing with, oh my God, I’m so overwhelmed.

You just skip over that. Right. So my creatives, you can do it cuz she is one. Um, I also, uh, she, uh, helped, uh, she had a team help her craft a book. And I think this is really important. We, um, it’s really important to understand like most things you see out in the world were not done by someone, by themselves.

Like even an artist who maybe paints the whole painting. Someone had to make the paint, someone had to do the thing, he had to go, they had to go to a store and get the things like people are, there’s an inspiration to the art that if that inspiration had never happened, then they wouldn’t have it. So, so get over yourself.

You don’t have to do it all on your own.

Brad Crowell: Well, I, I think also it’s like a permissions thing, you know, the reality is we. I mean, she, she specifically said, I didn’t ask for help soon enough. Yeah. And, and I thought about, about writing a book. And I thought, that’s crazy. I, I don’t even know that I would’ve thought to ask for help.

And I, you know, like listening to her experience, it was like, oh, maybe right out of the gate. Right. And we obviously just had a really interesting conversation with Jake Kelfer because he helps people write books. And imagine having someone help you from start to finish as opposed to, she said she, she literally wrote over a hundred thousand words, which she then shot down to 57,000 words.

So that’s a lot of writing, a lot of effort, um, a lot of thinking for basically chopping literally half of what you wrote, um, just so that it could be like a digestible, uh, message in, in the book and having guidance ahead of time. She finally said, when I did ask for help, I had made this big mess. And then I, my team came in and helped me do it, and then she started talking to a publisher and all this stuff and that, and that, like really streamlined it even more.

So, um, you know, especially imagine had she asked for help before she felt overwhelmed.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Well, and I mean, I think that’s why she like go, that’s probably why she was like, I don’t do overwhelm. Right. So then like, you know, you bring on the team. So I just think that like one of the greatest things you could do for yourself with any goal you have is figure out where support can come from. And maybe it’s not support on the actual project, like maybe you don’t need an editor right now, but maybe it’s getting help with childcare. Maybe it’s getting help. Like, like remember when I was overwhelmed, um, in 2018, I was just really overwhelmed, um, cuz there was things I wanted to do for myself.

But that required me to drive three miles across town, which in LA good luck. Right? And uh, and so when the lease came up on the car, we realized it’s actually cheaper. At the time, it’s not the same anymore. It was cheaper to just Uber everywhere and use scooters and. And stuff like that. So we just got rid of the car so that someone else could drive me around so that I could get some work done.

So like that support can come from a, a variety of different ways. Maybe you do meal orders, like so you can have time. Like we’ve,

Brad Crowell: we’ve done that, especially when we have, we know we’ve got an insane week coming up. Like for agency. Many. …(Lesley: Yep. Uh, we, our meals are delivered.) We pre-plan ordering all the meals that week because we know there’s not a chance I can even take 20 minutes to make lunch, we need to just sit down, eat and get back to it.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. So, so anyways, I really hope that what she said there just like really inspires you to like, who can I ask for help? And then also, I don’t know, practicing I don’t do overwhelm. I don’t do overwhelm because I don’t do overwhelm, so I’m gonna do this.

Like, I love that. What did you

Brad Crowell: love? Yeah. So, uh, she said, uh, she actually, she specifically said, what’s so cool is customer, that is, that customer experience is universal. And what I found really interesting is that she actually worked for, uh, the company called experience.com, uh, and she was their chief experience officer for the website, rebuild up experience.com.

So think about that, like she has to be super expert at this in order for the company whose job is experiences to hire her as their CEO chief Experience

Lesley Logan: Officer. Yeah, but I, I think they call it like a ux.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, it’s ux, yeah. Yeah. Ux, ui. Uh, and, uh, so, but she was the, she was basically in charge of the experience of the rebranding of their website, and that’s pretty amazing.

Uh, she said what’s so cool is that customer experience is universal. Um, she believes that the industry should rethink how to improve customer experiences. And, and what she was talking about was, uh, you know, well, it’s applicable to any industry. So think about your, if you’re a, in Pilates or you’re running a fitness, uh, business, how can you improve your customer experience?

Um, she mentioned these kind of problems. Um, new businesses, uh, are constantly seeking new customers instead of actually. Uh, trying to improve the experience of the customers that they already fought so hard to get the first time around. Mm-hmm. We have this weird approach of like, okay, um, I just need to get two 10 new customers a month.

Well, what if you got 10 new customers the first month and then you kept them so that the next month you don’t have to get 10 more? Right. And you can really do that with their experience in whatever

Lesley Logan: busy practice. Well, also, also she has said like, the whole point of having customers is so they get you more customers.

So if you actually focus on the ones you got, then they’ll be so excited to share their experience with other people. And then you can have more customers and you don’t have to focus on both things. You can focus on one thing and the other, and that the results of that are more

Brad Crowell: customers. Yeah. So actually that, that’s, uh, exactly one of the quotes that she has in her epigraph mm-hmm.

Uh, in one of her books and epigraph is the quote at the end of a chapter. She quotes a guy named Shiv Singh, who is the CXO, is not ceo, it’s CXO Chief Experience Officer at LendingTree. Uh, and he said "the purpose of a business is to create a customer who creates customers." Hmm. So think about that. Like that is the ultimate.

Um, if you, if you ever go and you study the customer journey, the final step is that they are, uh, basically out there shouting from the rooftops on your behalf. Right. That is like the journey. If you can get them through all of the, you know, the five steps of the customer journey, the fifth step is that they’re helping refer people to you, right?

And so, uh, um, that, that’s exactly right, what you just said. Mm-hmm. I love it. Yeah, I think it’s great. And you can help get them through, um, those other parts of the journey by cultivating an experience that they just fall in love with. So, yeah.

All right, so finally let’s talk about those, Be It action items.

What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Brittany Hodak? Um, basically, uh, she summed up, uh, in two really helpful things. Yes. The first thing she said is, be kind. Yes. …(Lesley: Who do these come from though?) Um, well be kind was her kid.

Lesley Logan: Both of ’em. Her kid, her kid said I think you should say be kind and listen. Listen.

Brad Crowell: Oh yeah. Four words. Four words. That’s exactly right. So her, her son, who, I don’t know how old he is. She didn’t

Lesley Logan: say. Five and a half now, but at the time he’s probably four. Right.

Brad Crowell: Hey mom, I think you should say you should tell everyone to be kind and listen.

And then he apparently ran out of the room. Um, that’s right. That’s amazing. So her first, uh, uh, be it action item is to be kind and she said it’s applicable to everything in life. Um, she also had a good laugh and said, did he just write four words, which is my entire book and I wrote a hundred thousand.

Yeah. Um, even if you don’t want to be kind, it pays you to be kind. Right? So you have an ulterior motive. PS for people, especially if you’re in customer service or you’re in the service industry in general and you have someone who is frustrating you, uh, it will pay off in dividends if you are kind. Um, You know, and she said it, you know, it, it’s just not gonna serve you in the long term.

We’ll have the cutting, sarcastic, snarky, you know, remarks that, that go through our head, or the things that like the frustration builds up to. But if, if there is, if you have the chance to take a breath prior to responding and you know, be kind instead of, uh, frustrated, then it’s gonna really help your, their experience, and hopefully you can win them back over.

Now, there are times I think, when you should be drawing a line in the sand, and you can definitely fire clients. I’m not saying that you should just bend over for everybody. You know, like, like, uh, uh. Often there is a miscommunication or the customer is frustrated about something that maybe wasn’t clear to them.

And then as soon as you explain it to them, they like chill and everything’s okay. Right. But there is that moment of like, you might feel like you’re being attacked. Well, and also maybe you can diffuse it.

Lesley Logan: So also like I always think some of those things as like, it does feel like an attack because I get it, y’all, it feels like an attack, but it’s not, it’s not personal.

It’s like their experience. And oftentimes what I do is I’m like, oh, if someone like, how, where did we, like, let’s review, did we actually make sure that we’ve told this person seven times? Like we think we told ’em seven times. Like did we actually tell ’em seven times about this thing? And then it’s like, oh, you know what?

If they skipped. These emails, I’ve only read this one, then they didn’t see it. So how can we like update it so it’s just a bit more, more clear. And so that doesn’t mean I have to like bend over backwards for that person, but I can listen to that feedback and use that feedback to increase the, enhance the experience for future people.

And I can be kind and say, thank you so much. I’m going to re-review my systems in this place. Yeah. You know, and so like, it, it’s, please don’t give, I’m a people pleaser because you’ll, your business will actually please nobody, uh, that way,

Brad Crowell: you know? Yes. But like, and I do, like I said, I do think boundaries are important, but we just had an experience, um, recently that, um, I still have a hard time with.

Um, we started including text messaging into our customer service experience, our customer experience. So sometimes we text like lots of people at the same time and we use our CRM to do that and all the things. Well, the very first time that we ever sent out a mass text, we had dozens of people. Do what?

What do they do? They, if they don’t want text messages? What are you trained to do these days? You reply with the word stop. Well, it used to be that you needed to reply stop in all caps, right? So like, now you can just type stop. If it’s alone, that’ll, that’ll trigger. But we sent out a text message, and I’m not kidding.

A dozen people replied, stop in all caps. And I literally felt like they were shouting at me. I was like, oh my God. Like what I what? And I was like really having a hard time to chill out and put myself in their shoes. What are they doing? They’re just getting a text and, and they’re probably not pissed.

They’re probably not angry, but because they’re replying at all caps, I felt like they were shouting. You know? And I was like, whoa. Right. And then I thought, oh wait, I do that too. Like, you know, or I’ll reply to an email unsubscribe, you know, and it’s not personal and I’m not like pissed at them.

Maybe though. It’s crazy is I’m, I’ve actually been subscribed with more than one email to an email list, right? Yes. And I’m like, damn it, I’m tired of getting two of the same emails. So one of them, I’ll say, unsubscribe.

Lesley Logan: Right. But if you…(Llesley: you don’t say it, you just hit the button.)

Brad Crowell: No, no. You can reply back like some, sometimes you just reply back.

Yeah. Anyway, my point is like, you know, taking it personally, uh, that it, it might not be personal. If you can put that in their, you know, yourself in their shoes and see what they’re doing, it might be as like, insignificant as them be like, oh, I don’t wanna make sure get text messages from these people, but I’m happy to get their emails.

So they just replied Stop to the text.

Lesley Logan: Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And also we also texted everybody on Thanksgiving. So people were like,

Brad Crowell: what the fuck? Yeah. I forgot to put your name in that text. That was hilarious. Uhhuh. So Noah knew everyone was like, hi Brad. I don’t know who you are, but uh, thanks for the really nice.

Happy Thanksgiving message, but maybe you got the wrong number.

Lesley Logan: Anyway, we basically summed up my Be It takeaway with this whole thing. Oh, I just did. We did, but I also think like, you know, be kind and listen what, uh, if you, it’s the only takeaway you take from this entire episode that is good enough. For today, I think.

Um, so we, we love Brittany, you guys, her book is out. You can buy it anywhere books are sold. And if you did buy her book, um, um, when after you’re done leaving us a review, uh, go to Amazon and leave her a review. And here’s the deal. Um, it is if you’ve ever done a project that takes over a year of putting it together and putting it out in the world, the reality is, is that things like podcasts and books, they only get sold and seen by other people if reviews are happening. So take a moment to do it because I bet you you’ll have something in life where you want that karma returned and it will come back to you tenfold. I’m sending it out to you right now. Um, I’m Lesley Logan.

And I’m Brad Crowell. Thank you so much for joining us today. You are incredible human beings. I am so fucking grateful for you and I love doing this podcast. It’s a dream. Uh, so I, can I be honest? There’s so many fucking amazing guests coming up. You’re not, don’t miss an episode cause you’re gonna be like, what?

Um, so at any rate, …(Lesley: how are they gonna be?) What, what? Share this episode however you know how. And until next time, Be It Till You See It. Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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