SLAY Your Way Out

of a Narcissist

Ep. 268 with Rebecca Zung

“Don’t feel bad about choices that you made when you were in survival mode.”

Rebecca Zung

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Bio

Rebecca Zung is a top 1% attorney and Narcissism Negotiation Expert, recognized by U.S. News & World Report as a “Best Lawyer in America”. She’s the founder of the SLAY negotiation method, boasts over 30 million YouTube views, and is the author of the upcoming book “SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win”, along with two bestsellers. A major media contributor, she’s been featured on platforms like Extra, Forbes, and Dr. Drew.

Show Notes

In this compelling episode, Lesley and Rebecca delve into strategies for handling challenging personalities. Drawing from her personal journey and expertise, Rebecca provides invaluable insights on recognizing and countering manipulative behaviors. Discover how her SLAY method can be your key to breaking free from toxic entanglements.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • Explore different types of narcissism and their distinct signs.
  • Dive into Rebecca’s SLAY method for empowerment.
  • Grasp the steps to set boundaries with manipulative individuals.
  • Realize that self-worth is self-defined.
  • Understand the psychology behind narcissistic behaviors.
  • Embrace self-awareness to navigate challenging relationships.

Episode References/Links:

Transcript

Rebecca Zung: You don’t want anybody to feel like they’re a failure or feel guilty or feel worse on themselves. You know, I mean, you know, I always tell people don’t feel bad about choices that you made. When you were in survival mode. Right?

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INTRODUCTION

Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan 2:37
Hey, Be It babe. All right, we have a hot topic. I think it’s a hot topic. It’s a topic that I’ve been interested in for a really long time. And you’ll hear how I found out about our guests. And she didn’t even know the story. So I got to tell it to her on the air. But our guest is Rebecca Zung. And she is an incredible person, you probably have heard from her because she helps you negotiate with narcissists. And she shares narcissism, covert narcissism and how we can work like lead our lives, when we find ourselves in and are in a relationship with a narcissist, whether it’s work or personal in this episode, which I am so excited about, because one of the things that I think could be really hard when you’re being until you see it is the people around you, they can make it very difficult. And you can be the strongest, most amazing person at work, and then at home, you feel like you’re not, or vice versa. And, and so she explains this whole thing so well and why and how the narcissist can mesh themselves into your world, and how you can untangle that web. And also, I just, you know, I love the Be It Action I was I really do so. But I do. I do love this one. I think it’s really incredible. And what I hope is that this is an episode that you will listen to, that you share a lot. Because the truth is, is that whether you are dealing with a narcissist right now, or someone else you know and they are around us, and we’re going to have to deal with them in different situations all the time. And so hopefully this episode arms you with the tools you need to deal with a narcissist in your life or prevent one from coming into your life in the future. As always, we do love when you share the show, so please make sure you do that. And there’s some great links in the show notes for her book that you can preorder. At the time this comes out if you’re listening to it after it came out you could order but also she’s giving away some amazing content to support you and your journey with getting out of people’s narcissistic relationships you might be in so here she is, Rebecca Zung.

Lesley Logan 4:14
All right, Be It babe. I am beyond excited about this exact moment. I don’t actually think our guests even knows how this happened. So I’ve had her name on the list to talk to her on this podcast. And today it started. She’s on the wish list since it started because I heard her on two other podcasts. And I was like this woman has to come on, because what she talks about is what we all deal with all the time, and how on earth might be it till we see it with narcissists in our lives. So I had her on my wish list. And then I remember, hey, we’re gonna do a quick little, little story. So I’ve talked to you on the pod about how I had this one random girl state where I met these girls, and we all said, Let’s go to Vegas. I live in Vegas. So they came here and we’re sitting around having drinks, and I said, yeah, I really. I have a wish list of a couple people that I’ve been wanting to get on pod. And Donna girls is like, well, who isn’t? I said, Well, I’d love to get Rebecca Zung on the pod. And she said, Oh, she’s a friend of mine. Let me see if I can make that happen. And I now you’re here. So, you guys, our guest today is Rebecca Zung.

Rebecca Zung 5:01
Ah, it wasn’t Harry Ford. Oh, yeah, that’s right, Carrie. Shout out to Carrie.

Lesley Logan 5:08
Yeah, we love Carrie. Her episode is probably one of the most top downloaded one. So everyone loves Carrie, but that’s how you got here. And I’m a fangirl a little bit, but I’m gonna first let you tell everyone who you are and what you’re amazing at.

Rebecca Zung 5:21
Oh, well, my name is Rebecca Zung and I am an attorney by trade. But what I really do now is I teach people how to negotiate with narcissists. It’s such a weird thing to say like when I’m at cocktail party, things like that. I always joke that people used to really run away when I told them that I was a divorce attorney now they’re all like, Oh my God, I need you.

Lesley Logan 5:45
Right, because I feel like there’s like a narcissistic epidemic or (inaudible). I don’t know what you call it, but they’re…

Rebecca Zung 5:51
Yeah (inaudible) for sure.

Lesley Logan 5:54
So can we just take a brief I’m like, how did you go from being a divorce attorney to being someone who helps people with narcissist?

Rebecca Zung 6:02
Well, it really happened during COVID. I was I had dealt with a narcissistic business partner. Prior to COVID. I had really kind of merged my practice a little bit before that to do entrepreneurial things. And I ended up with a covert narcissistic business partner who ended up she was a woman and somebody who everybody thought was amazing and wonderful and humble and kind. And the thing that everybody thinks when you’re dealing with a covert narcissist, right, and I prior to that, I thought narcissists were all male, blowhards, misogynistic, rule-the-room kind of, that’s what I thought a narcissist was. And when I was dealing with this particular person, it was really one of the most horrible, heinous experiences of my life. It brought back feelings of when I had been bullied as a kid, and it caused a lot of trauma. I always say drama, trauma and chaos, yeah, in my life, and this, somebody had said to me, Oh, she’s a covert narcissist. And I was like, okay, what is that? So I ended up reading a whole bunch of books on narcissism, not because I was going to end up teaching this stuff, but because I wanted to know about it for myself. I had already separately been speaking a lot about negotiation. And I was even the keynote speaker for the American Bar Association. On the topic of negotiation, I’d written a book on the topic of negotiation. So it was a natural fit for me to actually start applying what I was learning about narcissists to negotiation at that time, and then COVID hit, then COVID hit. And so when COVID hit, I couldn’t practice law, I was really flying between LA and Florida, which is where my practice was. And I just started talking about how to negotiate with a narcissist on YouTube. And here we are, like two and a half years later, and I have close to 40 million views on YouTube. And I have a podcast and a book coming out later this year on how to negotiate with a narcissist and I didn’t practice law anymore. So, there you go.

Lesley Logan 8:27
I, what I love about your story is like, you weren’t set out to like, No, I’m going to teach people this, it was kind of like you’re trying to figure out how to like, how to actually survive your own situation. So you could not I mean, gosh, drama, trauma and chaos, but also just like the rent space that that person takes up in your head on a daily basis when you feel like you’re being bullied or like, misunderstood at work. And so but I also think it’s really cool to hear that because I think a lot of people in their being until they see it they don’t give credit to the past and like who they all the all the skill sets they already have. So you were actually just taking one thing you already do really well. And they’re like, well, let me do this and also during COVID When everyone’s locked inside with their narcissist, family member or something.

Rebecca Zung 9:11
Yeah.

Lesley Logan 9:12
So okay, can we just take a step back for the people, we did a little explaining about covert narcissist, but can we just do a little like 101, how does someone know they’re dealing with a narcissist in their life?

Rebecca Zung 9:23
Well, it’s so interesting because they start off being the most charming, charismatic, personable person you’ve ever met. And that’s the thing that’s so interesting about it because they know how to make you also feel like you are the most incredible person and that together, you have to be together, whether it’s business, or personal. Like where have you guys been as far as being together all of your lives. You know, the universe has put you together you are soulmates, you that you were destined to be together. And so therefore, you shouldn’t wait, you should get immediately to the next step. And so they look to get to that next step and lock you in as fast as possible. You know, whether it’s going to Vegas to get married, or locking you into being a business partner right away, which was my situation. And, you know, and I always remind people, they don’t attach themselves to you, because you have so little value, they attach themselves to you, because you have so much value, even though they’re devaluing you right away, they look for someone who’s going to be a great source of supply for them, whether it’s making them look good, or giving them, you know, their ego looks good, because you’re there with you, or they are looking, you’re going to be a great business partner for them, because you’re going to feed them a lot of things, or you’re going to be a great romantic partner, because you’re either going to give them lots of adulation, or you look good on their arm, or you have lots of money or whatever it’s going to be, right? So they they look for someone who’s going to feed something within them, because there’s so empty inside.

Lesley Logan 11:41
I love that you said that. I hope everyone’s like heard that. They aren’t targeting you or picking you because you have little value, it’s because you have so much, it’s because they see something that they can use in you and I think that’s such an important thing to say, because I do hear especially women, they’re like, how did I get in this situation again? How did this happen? It’s like, well, it’s not necessarily that every single one has, like they’re not carrying a narcissistic flag for you to see, like, there’s here’s your red flag for that. But, and also, it’s very flattering, but I think we can get so hard on ourselves, when we find ourselves in this situation, I don’t know if like, if you or people you’ve worked with, like, get, like find themselves like blaming themselves for putting themselves in a situation with a narcissist.

Rebecca Zung 12:22
Well, of course they do. But you know, you can’t blame yourself, because they’re really, really good. I mean, one of the other things they have this amazing skill at is what we call mirror neurons. I mean, they are very, very good at reading people. And so they know how to read you and become exactly what it is that you want, exactly what it is that you need. And they also are good at spotting your kind of core wounds and, and being sort of the salve for those core wounds at that time, you know, I can tell that, you know, you had this or whatever, and I will love you forever, you know, I will be the one I can be your savior, I can love you. You know, and then if, especially if you also have this need to save this person, you know, and they had something in their childhood or whatever, you know, they’ll be that thing so that you can go I can save you, I will love you, I will pour all of this into you. And they’re very very good at that too. And so it becomes this you know very symbiotic type of relationship almost from the beginning.

Lesley Logan 13:57
Yeah, yeah, I can picture that. So I guess like obviously you have you know, so many videos and all of your books but one of the things I was thinking about one that I want to do on the show is like trying to be the person you want to be like acting as if like taking making your new company or trying to leave a job or whatever it is. Unfortunately, we might encounter a narcissist or end up we maybe were already in a relationship with one how do you like what are your step suggestions or tips for people who are trying to do like be themselves go off try something new and then yet they have a narcissist around them? Like is there something that they can do say, are there steps that they can do?

Rebecca Zung 14:37
You mean what can they do to you know, get started?

Lesley Logan 14:41
Yeah, I guess started or like or how I guess maybe the next question and maybe that’s where my brain is going is like what happens when they’re like taking on their goals and a narcissist is trying to hold them back.

Rebecca Zung 14:53
Yeah, well, I mean, that’s gonna happen. I mean, we’re kind of like jumping from one end of the relationship to the other. Yeah, you know, and I kind of feel like maybe I should fill in the gap a little bit between that because they, you go from that love bomb stage, which is what I was sort of talking about at the beginning there, even though there’s nothing to do with love, it’s really all a manipulation to the devalue stage to the discard stage. And it’s not linear, by the way, I mean, they kind of jump from one to back to the other, whenever they need to.

Rebecca Zung 15:35
And so, then when you get into that discard phase, whether you’re discarding or they are, you’ve been so conditioned, at that point. And your brain is, you know, so it’s so difficult for you, at that point to it. It’s really hard. You know, sometimes people refer to it as like cognitive dissonance, because your brain is I mean, even if you are, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, how powerful you are in your regular life. I mean, I’ve talked to women who are hospital administrators, or CEOs or whatever, who are dealing with a narcissistic partner, it doesn’t matter. It’s, you know, like you said, it’s a cult mentality. So you can’t just go, I’m done over here, I’m gone, you know, so I say, step one, don’t run step two, make a U-turn, step three, break free, because you really kind of, I call it like, riding a ship, you know, you, you have to vary in small steps, turn it around, facing, then you’re facing the other person, and then you can break free. You know, you can’t just do it all at once. Because I feel like if you just tell somebody, you got to do it all at once, then they feel like a failure again. (Lesley: Yeah, yeah.) And you don’t want anybody to feel like they’re a failure or feel guilty or feel worse on themselves. You know, I mean, you know, I always tell people don’t feel bad about choices that you made. When you were in survival mode. Right? (Lesley: Yeah.) You know, you’re in, you got you’re here you are, where you are, they were really good at what they did, as far as love bombing you into this situation, and, and then you made choices when you were in survival mode at the time, right? So just step one, don’t run, start creating boundaries. And the first set of boundaries is usually probably just, you can’t speak to me that way. Right, and just start recognizing what is going on. In the situation, whether it’s a business relationship, or a personal relationship, and start looking at it almost as a third party as almost like observationally, when you can start looking at it from an observational point of view, almost as if you’re like seeing it, and going, I can see that you are upset, I can see that you’re angry. We can resume this when you’re less upset, you know, observing their behavior, rather than taking it personally. (Lesley: Yeah.) Because recognizing that hurt people hurt people. You can’t ever take anything anybody ever does personally. I mean, one of my favorite books, by the way, is the Four Agreements, (Lesley: Oh my gosh, best book.) Yeah, four agreements that you make with yourself. And one of them is never to take anything personally because the way people treat others is always a reflection of the way they feel about themselves.

Lesley Logan 19:12
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 100%.

Rebecca Zung 19:15
Just start observing their behavior, and you can even observe it to them. And you know, one of the things I always say that you can say to them is I agree with you. I agree with you. That that’s what you think. I agree with you that you believe that. You don’t have to agree with that. (Lesley: Yeah. Yeah.) I agree that that is your opinion.

Lesley Logan 19:43
I love these Rebecca, because I think one, I think people think I have to get out of here. That isn’t actually you have to go back and get your things. Whatever, that’s your office (inaudible), like the it’s not always possible to run. Second, I think what you’re suggesting here is like just putting those boundaries up what a great muscle to practice and do and feel empowered when and then strengthen you to do that U-turn that you mentioned and then, and then break free. So I think that that’s actually probably not what people do for the first step. But as you in that way you explain it, it makes the most sense for people to feel strong and confident when they do leave.

Rebecca Zung 20:22
Yeah, because, you know, the first step is just some boundaries in place, right? So and, you know, if you are in a romantic situation, change your passwords, get your stuff together, make a plan, get a stash of cash, you know, whatever it is that you need to do, but that’s your first step. Right? And even just boundaries as far as how they’re speaking to you. That’s even that for some people is a big step. But that’s a great step. A great step. And by the way, I have phrases for people if they want phrases for disarming narcissist that are free. (Lesley: Oh, I love that.) Yeah, they can go to disarmthenarc.com and get them for free.

Lesley Logan 21:11
Perfect. Thank you so much. We’ll put that in the show notes, everyone, because that sounds awesome.

Rebecca Zung 21:16
Yeah, yeah. And like the one I just gave you, I agree with you is on there. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 21:22
So then step two, the U-turn. Like, what does that look like?

Rebecca Zung 21:27
So that’s like the next step. And you know, and in my slay methodology, which is strategy, leverage, anticipate and focus on you. That’s sort of like all part of this. But you know, you can’t even start to create a strategy until you’re like, okay, how can I start putting boundaries in place, right? And so, layering into this as I can start to make a U-turn, and I can start to build a strategy here, which is create a vision, and a goal, and I know where I’m going, and I can create action steps, and I can, you know, start working toward those action steps and I can have, I can figure out what my leverage is going to be. And, you know, all of that is part of making that U-turn, right? Anticipating where the narcissist is going to go and be being two steps ahead of them. What kind of narcissism I’m actually dealing with? Is it a covert, is it grandiose, is it malignant? Because they attack a little bit differently. And you can actually create a plan around each one, you know, and, and then the why is focusing on you, and your mindset, and you being on the offensive instead of the defensive all the time is so important because that’s when you actually break free. And the bottom line is that they’re the true breaking free, the true breaking free, is understanding that there will always be narcissists in this world, and they will always be toxic. And if you can be like a tree that sort of, you know, flexible, and but I stand here, and I don’t move, you’re there, and you just kind of go around me. And I don’t I see you and I smile, and you don’t have any effect on me. That’s the true breaking free. Right? I mean, yeah, that’s, that’s really where you want to go. Yeah, they’re always going to be around, they’re always going to be here.

Lesley Logan 23:47
They will and I, you are right. And I you know, and I keep coming back to this, like when we talk to different guests about different topics, the what it all comes down to is like, we have to know ourselves so well, that we can own the space that we’re taking up and not let whether it’s a narcissist or anyone push you around, like, Okay, well, I can let the breeze your words can breeze right by my leaves. But I’m these are my roots. And I’m standing here. And I think that like, that’s so hard for so many people to trust that they get to take up their own space. You know?

Rebecca Zung 24:22
I mean, the truth of the matter is that, I mean, when I went back to I have a business coach that was also sort of my guru in judo. She’s been with me for years and years. And she, when I went back to her after I had dealt with this narcissist, and she said to me, you know, Rebecca, it’s not what narcissists say, it’s how it lands for you. And I said, what, what does that mean? And she said, Well, if somebody calls you a banana you’d be like, I’m not a banana. So okay, whatever. But if they say something to you, and it hurts you, it’s because you feel something there. It’s something you still need to heal. Right? So it’s not what they’re saying. It’s, it’s you. (Lesley: Yeah.) And, and really, it’s a signal to you, it’s a message to you of what you still need to heal inside. So that that’s, that’s the beautiful thing in some ways, it’s a gift, I mean, I got such a gift from this person, because, you know, the, the true message in all of this is know who you are. Know who you are first. And then and then when they come along, and you be like, okay, whatever. You mean nothing to me.

Lesley Logan 26:00
Yeah, that is, I you know, when people I know people get all upset, like, everything happens for you. But like, if it if this situation helped you get to know yourself so much that like no other person can, can just like disrupt you from where you are. Like, isn’t, I would say, now the impact you’re having because of that to help other people. It’s kind of amazing. It’s kind of like a thing that happened for you and for others.

Rebecca Zung 26:27
Yeah, I mean, I can’t say that I’m perfect with that. No, I always joke that I can never leave my thoughts unsupervised. Y’all. (Lesley: Yeah, I understand that.) Like, you know, reminded, I have to, you know, I in fact, did the opening of my podcast. You know, because I have a podcast called Negotiate Your Best Life. I always say the very first negotiation you have to do is with yourself for your own self-worth in the morning. You know, I mean, you don’t have to always be vigilant, I think.

Lesley Logan 27:08
Yeah, thank you for saying that. Because I think it might, for my perfectionist, you might be like, did it, check the box, I remember, I got really mad. I was I was having a phone call with someone and in my family, and I got really mad, and I was so mad at myself for getting really mad. And I literally texted my therapist. I’m like, I need an emergency call. She said, I said, here’s what happened. Here’s the plan. And she’s like, it’s actually okay, to get mad at that person. What’s not okay is that you got mad at yourself for getting mad at that person. And she’s like, so there is the highlighter for where we have to do some more work. And so it’s just, I think, what is really amazing about dealing with people that frustrate us, or narcissist or anything is like, they are helping us see the places we have more work to do, where we can go deeper with ourselves, having get to know ourselves more, and then be a better person to those people who deserve to have those gifts shared with them.

Rebecca Zung 28:04
No doubt, no doubt. I mean, I actually in my new book, it’s called Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win, I actually thanked the narcissist. (Inaudible) And the people who bullied me as a kid, you know? Yeah. I mean, you gotta be grateful you have to have gratitude. Because, I mean, I am certainly not perfect, I still have a long way to go. I mean, you know, I have the perfectionist and control tendencies, which, honestly, that to me, for me, not speaking for you speaking for me, is a signal of, you know, still dealing with worthiness issues, having to hustle for your worthiness, and all that sort of thing, which I still struggle with, too, and you know, not, you know, wanting, just wanting to, you know, show up as myself and be authentic about that. And, you know, it’s it’s still a thing that I want to really be the best I can.

Lesley Logan 29:19
Yeah, it’s been funny for like, the perfectionist or trying to, that are trying not to be perfectionist or trying to be the best at not being perfectionist.

Rebecca Zung 29:26
Yeah, it’s so true. It’s such a dichotomy, isn’t it?

Lesley Logan 29:32
Yeah, it really it really is. I in the beginning of the show, we talked about how like, perfect is boring, like take messy action, right? And so the reason I say this, because it’s like a reminder to myself every day, like perfect is actually really boring. Like nobody really wants to, like, come into a perfect space. I don’t know where to sit down. They don’t know if they can touch anything (inaudible) they can’t mess it up. So, but I like you, it’s like, we’re not there yet. That’s why I keep saying it. It’s my own mantra.

Rebecca Zung 30:00
It’s true. It’s so true. But you know, just trying to show up as authentically as I can. That’s, you know, really the most important thing.

Lesley Logan 30:10
Yeah. So, um, you know, you mentioned your book, and I definitely want to chat about it in a little bit. But you mentioned you have to thank, like thank the bully and

Rebecca Zung 30:19
Not just them, other people, too.

Lesley Logan 30:22
Other people. What? What was that like when you put the pen to paper? Because I’m sure before you did that, like you’ve done some work to like, let that go. But like, what did it feel like to put that out in the it’s gonna be out in the world for them to see, too?

Rebecca Zung 30:39
Well, it is out there already in pre-order. Yeah. Yeah.

Lesley Logan 30:44
So how did it feel to you? Did it feel freeing? Did it feel like empowering where you’re like, Yep, I, I’m so glad that I’m done with that. What did it feel like?

Rebecca Zung 30:53
I it is, I am so excited about this book, because I just really want it to help as many people as possible. I just I know, because of the unbelievable growth of my YouTube channel. And the, the, literally hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of texts and emails and emails and DMs and messages that I get on a weekly basis of people, people whose lives I’ve touched. I mean, to be honest with you, like when I first started this whole journey, I had said to my husband, I’m like, I don’t know if I want to be the narcissism queen. Like this is like so not what I think I want to do, you know, I’m gonna teach negotiation, that’s what I’m gonna do. And then when I started getting all of these messages of people who were like, I was going to commit suicide, and you saved me. You saved me from losing my children, you saved me from being bullied at work, or, you know, things really unbelievable, powerful messages. I was really starting to feel like so humbled at the role that I’ve been playing just through my messages through my videos, through my courses through my all the things that I’ve been doing. And I just thought, okay, maybe I was meant to do this. And so I’m so excited about this book. (Lesley: Yeah) I feel like the stars have aligned in so many ways, Chris Voss actually wrote the foreword for me. And, yeah, so I’m just so excited.

Lesley Logan 32:47
I mean, from two and a half years ago to just like, going on, going on YouTube to like, share this one thing, well, while you couldn’t do anything else, it’s kind of it’s actually really amazing. And thank you for sharing like that process of like, do I want to be this person? I? I think not a lot of people know that. Most people do question like, is this the right thing? Is this where I want to go? And, and those messages, it’s so empowering. It’s almost like, all the stars align so you could be this person for all those people who need it right now.

Rebecca Zung 33:18
Yeah, yeah. And we get so many more. I hired a COO at the beginning of this year, and he sends me the messages every day, you know, you’ve got to read this one. You’ve got to read that one. And I’m like, I know. I know. And he’s like, because at the beginning when he first started with me, he’s like, I’ve never seen anything like this before. I’ve never seen anything like this. The impact you have is unbelievable. And I could just die now. And so that’s what keeps me going. Yeah, that’s what really is what what they inspire me, they inspire me.

Lesley Logan 33:58
I understand that. Rebecca I’m so grateful to have you and we’ll take a brief break. And we’re gonna find out how people can preorder your book, find you follow you listen to your podcast and all of that.

Lesley Logan 34:09
All right, well, I for one, I’m so grateful that you went from teach people negotiation, negotiate with narcissists because I have learned so much watching your journey over these last couple of years. I feel I feel this like, you know, fly on the wall before but now it’s just really fun to see your face and have this conversation before I let you go. Where can people find you follow you get your book, all those things.

Rebecca Zung 34:31
So the best place is my YouTube channel which is youtube.com/RebeccaZungEsq. And my Instagram is @RebeccaZung and I’ve TikTok and LinkedIn and all that good stuff, too. My website is there and my book is in pre-order and you can definitely get that at slaythebully.com and if you pre-order it from there, and do all the things that it says to do on that website, you get, like, almost $400 in bonuses, which is really pretty cool. So definitely check it out.

Lesley Logan 35:08
That’s amazing. We’ll put all those in the show notes. Because you all have to do this. I’m so excited for every one of them to have access to that. Okay, you’ve given us so much great information. And I really do enjoy the step the tips you’ve given us, but Be It Action is where you go bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Rebecca Zung 35:28
Well, I mean, I would definitely say the things that I had mentioned, which is, you know, the step one, don’t run, step two, make a U-turn, step three, break free. If you don’t, one thing that I want to leave people with is that you and you alone, define your value. And I just want to tell like a 32nd story, if you don’t mind. (Lesley: I don’t.) I had been a lawyer for about eight years. And then I went in as a financial adviser or wealth advisor with Morgan Stanley for about two years. And then I went back to start my law practice. I had a friend who was leaving town and she left me her law practice. She basically like said, here you go, you can have it. And I was like, okay, this is the way I can start my law practice. And, but I was practicing in Naples, Florida, which is kind of a smaller community, but a very affluent sort of community that where all professionals know each other. And I had that business coach that I was mentioning to you. And I said, everybody is gonna think I am such a flake. I said, you know, I was a lawyer, and then I was a financial advisor. And now I’m back to being a lawyer. And I said, everybody’s gonna think I’m such a flake. And she said, Rebecca, people will think what you tell them to think. She said, you can tell them to think that you are a flake. Or you can tell them to think that you are the only attorney that has a financial background. Which story so you’re actually more qualified than any other family law attorney in town. Which story would you like to tell? And I was like, Oh, well, maybe I’ll tell that story. And so within two years, I had actually the top family law practice in Florida, and I was representing billionaires and celebrities and all kinds of people who very clearly we’re not gonna be hiring a flake. But I had to show up that way. And if I had showed up as apologetic, I’m a flake. You know, that’s how people would have seen me. And so I really, I love to tell people this because people will think what you tell them to think you and you alone, define your value. And maybe it’s not an actionable step, but it is such a very, very important lesson that you show up. How you show up is everything, is everything. So it is it’s a negotiation step. It’s a everything step. And so you and you alone define your value and people will think what you tell them to think.

Lesley Logan 38:24
I think it’s pretty bold one I would look at that as the bold category.

Rebecca Zung 38:28
Yeah, that’s what I want to leave people with.

Lesley Logan 38:32
Rebecca, thank you so very much for being here. I’m so excited for your book to come out. I will be getting it because after recently going through bullying experience my own I’m like, okay, where’s all the bully information? Where are the bully foundations? I can donate to no one should go through this so grateful for you. Thank you for being here. Everyone. How are you going to use these tips in your life tag Rebecca Zung. Tag the Be It pod share this with a friend who you know has a narcissist in their life. You can just like slide it into their text messages so that they can just listen to it and help them out with whatever situation they’re in. Thank you all and until next time, be it till you see it.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of the ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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