Chasing Motivation, Intentional

Friendships, and Starting Small

Ep. 159 with The Fit Mess

(Zach Tucker and Jeremy Grater)

“Motivation doesn’t come to you, have to go get it yourself.”

Zach Tucker

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Bio

Zach resides in Albany, NY with his young daughter. Zach has a passion for helping people define and meet their wellness goals. He thinks that every person is different and there is no one size fits all solution for someone’s wellness. He is on a mission to share his story and some of the tools that helped him on his own wellness journey. Zach is certified to teach yoga and Insanity® Live.

Jeremy is a married father of two young girls and lives in rural British Columbia. He’s been in the broadcasting and podcasting business for about two decades. Jeremy is a certified REBT Mindset Life Coach.

Show Notes

It’s time to get more specific with the ways we are supporting one another. This world is messy, motivation doesn’t often come to us, we have to find it and The Fit Mess is an example of how growth can come from becoming more intentional. Listen in for their story of recognizing unhealthy mental patterns and choosing to start something new.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • The separation of depression and anxiety.
  • Fears and disbeliefs that come with starting a podcast.
  • Recognizing you are not alone in your mental health.
  • Motivation is a very fickle friend.
  • How to continually choose the intention instead of the unhealthy path.
  • The path of ignorance is easier but unfulfilling
  • The evolution from friends to business partners
  • The importance of pushing forward despite distance, families, etc.

Episode References/Links:

Transcript

INTRODUCTION

Lesley Logan
Hello, Be It listener. How are you babe? What’s up? How are ya? Really? Are you good? Um, I asked that because I’m actually really excited for you here, I have two guests for you today. And what is cool is you’ll hear how they met. And one of the things that they did was like, notice that the other person was a little bit more specific around how they were doing. And there’s these little signs that we put out into the world that show that we are down for a different kind of conversation that we are open to new things and new relationships. And, and I say this because it is at the heart of what this conversation is, there’s a ton of things you’re going to hear. And I hope that you challenge yourself to see yourself in the story. Because while they’re talking about putting a podcast together and becoming friends, and you may think that your life is a little different, there are things you can see in the story that will make sense to you. But I hear a lot that people are wanting new, deeper relationships. But when people ask you how you’re doing, do you just say, I’m okay? Or do you use a different word that’s a little bit more specific around how you’re doing that day. And that doesn’t mean everyone’s gonna pick up on it. Right? But going back to even the conversation we had with Jessica Valant, when she said, ladies, what we can do when we are waiting for our kids. And, you know, at school instead of just going, Oh, I’m good. You could just you could just like mention a symptom or a feeling that you’re having, and maybe share those things. One of my girlfriends that I have at the gym like I’m not in menopause yet, but she is sharing her journey with me. And it allows me to connect with her in a different way and for us to have different conversations. And so if you are someone who’s looking for more meaningful relationships in your life, I hope that this week’s episode with the host of The Fit Mess Podcast inspires you to share yourself in a different way with people to dive deeper into meeting who your people are and finding those people and it’s not the easiest thing that you’ll ever do, in fact, but most things that are worthwhile are not easy to do. So I’m excited for this. I can’t wait for you to hear it. There’ll BE IT action items of course you know, I love them always. But I really do think that these two are very unique and, and give you a lot of room to play with them in your own life. Here’s Jeremy and Zach of The Fit Mess Podcast.

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Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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EPISODE

Lesley Logan
Hey, Be It listeners. I’m so excited because I have two really cool dudes here. I’m really excited for them. I met them through this whole podcasting world, and I got to be on their podcast. And, you know, I, I find it very fascinating how people end up working together and how they end up starting new things. And so Jeremy and Zach, thank you so much for being here. Can you tell the Be It listeners who you are and what you guys are up to?

Zach Tucker
Well, I’m Zach. And so we, we’re the hosts of The Fit Mess Podcast, we, we, you know, Jeremy and I are kind of two odd guys, and that we talk about our feelings and our emotions and be vulnerable. And we try and spread that word. And, you know, Jeremy, Jeremy lives in the past with some of his depression, I live in the future with my anxiety. And you know, once a week, we come together, and we’re in the now and we do our show. And we talk about all the things that people can do to manage their mental health, their emotional health, their physical health, and just be better people overall, living in a world full of chaos.

Lesley Logan
Oh, my gosh, there is so much to talk about with that, right there.

Jeremy Grater
Yeah, he did, he hit on it otherwise, you know, I’m Jeremy. And we started the show about four years ago. And it really was born from a natural relationship that grew between us, we were having conversations with each other about the struggles and challenges that we had to take care of, like he said, our mental, physical and emotional health. And in being really vulnerable with each other. He knew that I had a history in podcasting. And he made the realization that this is not something that we hear a lot of as guys talking about their feelings, talking about how hard it is to do all these things, and all the challenges that we have to overcome to to just feel a little better every day. And so eventually, he twisted my arm and twisted and twisted it. And then it almost broke. And I said, “Okay, fine, let’s do a podcast.” So here we are.

Lesley Logan
So I love that description of one of Jeremy in the past, and you’re in anxiety in the future, Zach, I think a lot of people don’t realize like that those two things, like are separate, right? Like depression is typically when you are most thinking about the past in a way that you can’t have it to had or like something and go certain ways or, or not even the pres… like just like, you get distracted by that. And then the anxiety of just like thinking about things that haven’t even happened yet. What I’m wondering, though, is like, Jeremy, since you had a history in podcasting, Zach you didn’t like, what was, what, did you have any fears about going into this and sharing these thoughts and these feelings? Because I mean, there’s truth like, you don’t have listeners in the beginning. I mean, I have your friends and family, but that’s almost worse. Like I almost was like, “Oh, my mom is listening.”

Jeremy Grater
Right, right. … way more filtered because mom’s gonna listen. Yeah.

Lesley Logan
So was it, what was what were the steps you guys took? And like, what were the fears or wonders that happened before you got started?

Jeremy Grater
So for me, I had, you know, many years of radio experience at that point. And I’ve been podcasting since like, 2004. So the idea of a podcast was was nothing new to me. And it was one where I very much shared like, like, the more ridiculous the most embarrassing stories about myself because it was it was like a comedy show. The whole point was to share how ridiculous my life was. And so I didn’t really have any hang ups with that. But because I was very new to sort of, you know, biohacking or like trying to take care of myself any sort of wellness thing. I just thought, you know, this is for people with certificates on the wall. This is for people that went to big schools and learn things and have some specific tool that they’re gonna craft and like sell you on. And I just was like, I’m not that guy. I’m just a guy who’s done some stuff and it’s kind of worked out and it’s, you know, might help others but I don’t know. And Zach insisted that no, that’s everyone’s on this journey, everyone’s just a few steps ahead of somebody else. So this is designed for the people that were just a few steps ahead of the people that that are struggling, like we were a year two, three years ago. And the more research I did, and sort of look into the space, and I found he’s right, it’s a lot of interviewing the people that are the experts that have done the work and, and then relating with your own personal experience, how those, those practices can really benefit your life. And that was what got me over the hump and convinced me that this was the right thing to do.

Lesley Logan
I can resonate with that.

Zach Tucker
And, and from my side, you know, Jeremy is the one who’s comfortable in front of a microphone. And I think today, I’m okay, like, I have no problems doing that. But I still remember our very first show, and like, we walked in, and Jeremy and I were having these conversations one on one. And in those conversations, I was like, Oh, and this and that, and this and just, you know, on fire. And then we got in front of the microphone, it was like, … I don’t know what to say, I don’t know what to do. This thing is in my face, I don’t. So it was very, very nerve wracking, very anxiety producing for me. And then on top of it, like, you know, I was comfortable with Jeremy, talking with, you know, my feelings and emotions and vulnerabilities and things like that. And even though we had no listeners, like to your point, like, you know, parents listen, and you know, some friends listen, like I was, I was terrified of spilling all this information out about me, and putting it out there for anyone to hear. So it was it was very nerve wracking at the beginning.

Lesley Logan
Well, I think those people are listening, you can resonate, maybe you don’t have a podcast or not even think about starting a podcast. But if you are trying to go live on Instagram or trying to create a post for something, or I remember when my husband Brad was like, “You have to have a YouTube channel.” And I was like, to Jeremy’s point, like, “Who am I to do that? There have been people have been teaching for 30 years, they should have the YouTube channel. I’ve only been teaching for for four and a half years.” Like, and he’s like, “No, no, you just you’re gonna do a YouTube channel.” And even though like, no one even knew I was doing, I didn’t tell a soul I wouldn’t even post about because I was so afraid of like what people would say. And it took until like my first comment that people were kind and like, “Oh, thanks for putting this out there.” I was like, “Oh, okay, they’re not going to come after me.” (Lesley, Zach and Jeremy laughs) You know, like you we build up some in our head about what could happen. Clearly Zach and I are like an anxiety world, like in the future these all these things can happen. But like, if you actually just take a step back and go, okay, really like the entire YouTube followers are gonna like go crazy on you all have podcast listeners who don’t have yet are gonna think something. And I think it is very easy for us to get in that worry state of that. And then also, it is hard, you’re not born looking at a dot or like you’re not, it’s not a natural thing to just come up and start sharing your thoughts and your feelings, knowing that other people are going to be listening and like, you whisper those things into the restaurant that come up, you’re like, “Let me lower my voice because I don’t want all these people in the restaurant to hear.” So I think it is really difficult to do those things. And and I just want to I want to say like, to Jeremy’s point you guys mentioned like who you are for, you guys were like we’re going to talk about for people who are like, we’re a few steps ahead. And I think a lot of us think we’re trying to talk to everybody or your posts are for everybody. If you’re a teacher and watch it, listen to this. Or if you maybe you’re making crafts and you’re like ever like you’re not you’re making it for like these people and so you’re not for the people who are expert, biohackers those people are listening to somebody else, but you’re for the person who’s like, “I don’t even understand the words they’re saying.” Like, for example, I listen to Huberman sometimes and I’m like, “How, is anyone listening to this guy? I need to slow him down. I have to look up some words.” Like I who am I saying.

Jeremy Grater
Yeah, that’s definitely something that I still struggle with, in many ways, especially when it comes to like the Instagram lives or whatever. You know, I’ve gotten to a point I was talking with somebody about this the other day that like, the closer I get to the microphone, the farther the filter go, goes away from like, what I feel like I can say, but when it comes to like, looking into my phone, like walking around like this, talking to nobody, even if there’s 500 whatever, people, I’m talking to a device, and I still have that barrier, that’s tricky for me to like, break down that wall and go, “No, I’m actually talking to somebody. Somebody’s hearing this right now in a month, in six months, in a year, whatever.” (Lesley: Yeah.) And, and sort of just, like I’m just I’m always trying to, like get things out of my way. And that’s one that’s still in my way is breaking down that wall and just being okay with I’m just gonna put this out there because it could help somebody and I don’t I don’t know, that ever had the fear or have the fear that someone’s gonna like, you know, rage about it or whatever. I worry more about this person who who takes my advice, and it somehow harms them. And I don’t I’m always worried that I’m going to tell somebody something and they’re going to try it and somehow it’s going to bring more pain. And (Lesley: Yeah.) that’s the thing that really scares me. I can I can take the wrath, I can take the comments and the hate mail and all that like that, whatever. But if I actually end up doing the opposite and harming somebody that’s that’s what definitely concerns me.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, I understand that a lot. When you, so your four years in that’s like not a new show. (Jeremy: No) (Zach: No) How have you guys, have you guys evolved what the show is about? Or are you still on the same path? Like, what has been the journey that you guys have gone on with this?

Zach Tucker
Yeah, I think generally speaking, we’re still on the same path. We have changed the message a little bit, just based on all the guests that we’ve had come on. And we’ve had these realizations of, oh, 25, people have said the exact same thing, we should probably focus on that. But the original intention of the show was, you know, the name is The Fit Mess. And the the, the idea that we had around it was, you know, to take care of yourself in today’s day, and age is hard. And it’s actually messy, and it’s not perfect like, and to expect perfection in doing any of these things is, you know, going to be is going to be a useless effort. And the analogy I like to use is, you know, like, if you have, if you’re in your house, and you’re in your bed, and the house is completely cluttered, like hoarder, cluttered, right, and you can’t get to the kitchen. You don’t have to clean the whole house, you just have to clear path to the kitchen, and then you can eat. And then if you have to go to the bathroom, you can clear path to the bathroom. And then if you have to get to the front door, you clear path, and eventually you’ll make, you’ll make enough paths where the clutter will start to clean up. And you don’t have to do it all at once. And that’s really what we’re trying to do to send that message from the very beginning that, you know, being healthy, mentally, physically and emotionally, is is something you can’t do all at once. You have to pick and choose small steps along the way. And I think the two things that really kind of popped out for us along the way was this questioning your own beliefs as you go along this journey, and motivation. Jeremy says that, you know, way better than I can, but you know, like, you can’t wait for motivation to come to you, you just have to be the person who does the thing that you want to do. And that, I think that took us both by surprise, because we were both like, “Wow, we listen to this guest and we want to do this thing, but I’ll do it Monday, or I’ll do it next week.” Or, you know, wait till I’m you know, feeling energized. And, and we just kept hearing over and over and over again. Motivation doesn’t come to you, have to go get it yourself. (Jeremy: The other …) So (Jeremy: Sorry) yeah, go ahead.

Jeremy Grater
I was just gonna say the other part of this that that I think has evolved, but has remained foundational to it is that it’s very, it can be very lonely, to have these pains and these fears, and these, all these things that hold us back. And so we wanted to be there for that person and say, “No, us too, we feel it too, we have the same struggle.” And the further we’ve gone on this journey, it becomes even more isolating often because you end up shedding a lot of the friends and a lot of the connections and the (Lesley: Yeah) things that used to the life that you knew, and all of a sudden you’re just constantly just going down this dark tunnel of what’s what’s that glimmer of light ahead. And it can just be so lonely. So we just very much wanted to create a space where people could hear other people particularly guys, you know, we aim for guys when we went into this because we didn’t hear a lot of this. And so we just wanted to be there for them and to show them that it’s okay to have these feelings and have these thoughts and to go through this stuff. But what’s been really interesting is that while we talked all these guys, it’s it’s their wives and girlfriends who show up and say, “I wish my boyfriend would listen to this. I wish my husband would listen to this because he could really gain a lot from this.” So that’s that’s been the other sort of hallmark is just being a point of connection for people because it’s just so lacking these days.

Lesley Logan
I love that you said that because it’s so true. And like we have a lot of guests who come on the show who’ve told people you know, in different ways about boundaries, like there’s an episode that’ll have come up before you guys that she was like hardcore like, about like, if you are letting if you are not upholding your boundaries, you are basically like, like, like not like not then and I mean ruining your life. It was even more dramatic than that. And I was like, she’s not wrong for so many people letting go of those family members is really hard. And find… and so… and and having access to surrounding yourself with people who are on that path ahead is so hard. And one of my previous guests said, then your podcasts are a free source of friendships that you can hit, you can spend more time with your podcast hosts. And if we are the average of the five people you hang out with and you could just hang out with them until you can get yourself to a place and I think that is really cool that you have set this up for clearly their wives but hopefully them someday (Zach: Yeah) because I do think that you can start to feel a little bit crazy. Like when you, I go to a family reunion or wedding you’re like, “How did I come from here?” Like, like, “What, where how did this happen?” And so you can feel like you’re like not even a unicorn but like there’s like a like some weird spotlight on you. And so to hear from other people like actually I’m the same we’re doing the same thing and you’re not alone. And it is not easy to be the one that evaluates your your beliefs and who looks at yourself under a microscope and like decides to make some changes. You’re not alone in that, other people are doing it too.

Jeremy Grater
Well, I know how far I’ve come and even now, like, I’m at this weird like crossroads in my life where like, I’m kind of in a struggle of my own right now. And I can feel the pull to go back to, oh just give up on like, this is just way too much like reading and self reflection and crying and pain, like, just go back to not giving a shit and just show up, but you know, go get some job and just live the normal life. Like, it’s just it’s, I feel that pull, because it’s so much easier. That path is easier as (Lesley: Yeah) this one is… I think I think it is, I think it is because it’s it’s sort of that idea of, I don’t know that it would be now. But living with the ignorance of what I don’t know about myself and all the things that I could explore that was an easier life. Because pain, oh, beer fixed until tomorrow than it hurts. Oh, beer fixed like, it’s just this awful cycle that is really unhealthy. But now that I know what I know, it’s almost I think it is impossible to go back. Because it’s, (Lesley: Yeah) it just seems so difficult. It seems harder to make that turn. But there’s this pole of I want that ease back, I want to just to just go through the motions and show up but I know better. And so every day I have to wake up and I have to read the things and talk to great people like you and do these things that help keep pushing me forward. Because it does it just it’s a lonely difficult path. But it is so much more rewarding than the one that I was living.

Zach Tucker
Yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) and I have. So my, you know, my, the way I grew up, like I had a fairly traumatic childhood. And things happen to me along the way that like, by the time I got to 20 I was like, ridiculously anxious, shy, overweight, like 300 pounds, like just everyone thought I was going to be dead or in jail, you know, just just not in a good place in any way, shape, or form just due to the environment that I was in. And that’s when I was around my family. And I kind of disappeared and moved to Seattle, and got away from my family. And that’s when like most of my journey happened. And my the family that I do hang out with. They’re the normal ones. They’re the ones that I like, and I actually appreciate. But every time I go back to the town I grew up in and hang around my family. The feelings of who I was when I was 20 resurface. And I hate those feelings. And it’s such a good reminder for me of, “Yeah, this was really hard, and you need to keep pushing, and you need to keep doing more work because that was bullshit.”

Lesley Logan
Yeah, yeah. One of my one of my friends were the guests early on, she recently had to go see her family. And she, she’s done like all the work like she’s done, like all the things. Right. And she’s like, she’s like, “Lesley, I went back there and I was like, I was 13 again.” And it (Zach: Yeah) was just she’s like, “I have more work to do because clearly I have not healed all of that yet.” And I think it is so important for us to do that self reflection, because we can keep growing and we can and we can share it with others. There was a couple books. So I want to wait for motivation, because I do think it’s this interesting thing that people will use as an excuse to not take action. And BJ Fogg says in his book Tiny Habits that he describes motivation is a very fickle friend like super like you would always go to a party with this friend. Like this is the friend that you would like do fun things with. But you would never ask this friend to pick you up from the airport. So like (Zach and Jeremy laughs) this … like you would not rely on it to do anything that’s actual actual importance in your life. And, and also, the harder something is the more motivation we need, which is why he talks about making things as simple as possible so that you don’t need the motivation, you can just do it. The other thing Jeremy brought up like, there’s this pool you think you move forward and then there’s this pool. And it makes me think of Gay Hendricks book The Big Leap if I don’t know if you’ve read it, but it is one of my favorite annual books to read. It is an annual read because it is all about whenever you get outside of your your like comfort zone. So like every time you get a new level, you’re comfortable again, right? Whenever you like actually get outside that comfort zone, you will have this pool, it can be worry. It can, you can cut pick fights, you could actually get sick. Like there’s, there’s these things that can happen. He picks like, like six or seven different things that everyone does to like pull themselves back to where they were. So they feel very safe. And like in this, like this is how things are and it is so fascinating. Every time I read it because I pick up something new. And I will you know take there’ll be a new level we’ll have something with the podcast that will go well or something with the business and then I can start to think about all the things that aren’t going well like oh, well we haven’t done these seven things actually. So let me just like get back into us a different spot where like nothing is going well.

Jeremy Grater
Right. Totally, totally. And I’ve been doing that a lot. I went through this major life change last year. Literally like left my 20 year career, sold my house, left the town, everyone I knew left my country, moved to a different country, moved to a town and they met in the middle of the mountains where I knew nobody had no real job, no idea what we were going to do. But we took the leap, we just went, this is something we want to do. And there was a lot of like visualization and things that had to happen to make it all happen, but it eventually did. And now that I’ve been here, all of that excitement of that year of, “Oh, we got to do this and talk to the lawyer and make sure this happens and book, the truck and do all that.” Now we’ve we’ve settled, right, like, we’re here, the kids are in school, my wife has had a job, I’m on the verge of like some things panning out there. And there’s just like this comfort that sort of settling in. But we still haven’t really like found community, like we’ve sort of like, built the blocks. But now we’ve got to like, flavor it with the friends and things like that. But we’re still we’re so close to home that we go back a lot. So I have that same situation where I’m back into feeling familiar setting with familiar faces. And so there’s this, that’s where I think some of this push and pull comes from is like I’m there for a weekend. And then I’m home back home here for a couple of weeks, and then a back there for a week. (Lesley: Yeah.) And just that like sort of living in the two worlds, I think is where a lot of my conflict is coming from. (Lesley: Yeah.) And it’s really hard to move forward when I’m still so anchored in the past as much as I am. And so, you know, I think the just really just trusting your journey is the is the key, right? Like (Lesley: Yeah) believing in the Northstar that you set for yourself and just keep pushing for that no matter how much the winds want to push you back to where you were comfortable where you started.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, you know, one of the things that Brad and I say was so I don’t want to say good, the wrong word, because it’s a bad place. But like, ha… we moved to Las Vegas on June 1 of 2020 from Los Angeles, a town we thought we’d never leave, right. And people were like, “Was it hard to settle in?” I’m like, well, we couldn’t really go back to LA. We weren’t missing anything. There was no birthday parties. There was no weddings, the whole city was shut down. My clients were all doing virtual anyways. So like, for us like there was, it was almost like we were just down the street because you there was nothing going on there. Right? (Jeremy: Yeah.) And here, we there was it was sort of opening but things were opening where the casinos, I’m not going there. So like, we kind of just got to like get used to like, where’s the grocery store? Where are these things and there was no pull back because there was nothing to go back to. And it wasn’t in a year later, when we finally met someone here who like she knows everybody. That’s the key Jeremy, you got to find the person knows everybody, you got to get to that person. So for us, she was the facial salon owner. So she knew everybody and she is a connector like by nature, like that’s just who she is. She’s like, the more the merrier kind of person, you got to find that person because now we have a trainer that we love, we have friends and on fourth of July, we went to a barbecue like there’s all these things. And so now when I go back to LA, I don’t have that pool. Because yes, I miss everybody. And there’s some things that I miss or some coffee I miss. And there’s a burrito, that’s just so good. (Lesley, Zach and Jeremy laughs) But (Jeremy: There’s always a burrito.) There’s always a burrito. But there’s also this like, well, this is nice to visit, as (Jeremy: Yeah) opposed to gosh, I miss this. You know what I mean? (Zach: Yeah)

Jeremy Grater
And that’s that’s how it was largely in the beginning. But yeah, I totally hear you it. It’s one of those just matter of time, find the right people kind of thing.

Zach Tucker
I just, I just had the kind of the same experience. I moved back to New York from Seattle in June of 2019. And then the pandemic hit like six months later. And, you know, I was kind of just figuring out the basics and everything. And I didn’t have the community that I wanted there that I had in Seattle, until I went to I found this one gym where like the owner of the gym knows tons and tons and tons of people. And then I made a couple of friends at the gym and it just kind of spread from there. And then I went back to Seattle. What? Like two months ago, Jeremy? (Jeremy: Yeah yeah.) And like, you know, it was good to visit is good to see everyone. But like, I was like, “No, this isn’t home anymore.” (Lesley: Yeah) That it’s not, this is not.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So how did you two, I guess I don’t know, actually, how you two met? And then and then how has that, how has your relationship evolved now that you guys work together? Because it was like two friends who talked and share their feelings. And now you’re, you know, there’s like a, I mean, the podcast is somewhat of a business. Right. So like, you know, so how does that change things?

Zach Tucker
So, so my, my wife and I moved to Seattle, in 2010. And we, we had she got pregnant shortly thereafter. So our wives actually met, they were part of a fit moms club. And they were going to do a race like so many weeks after giving birth to their kids. So we have, you know, two daughters that are very close in age. So they started hanging out a little bit and then they decided, well, you know, I think they shared about each other and they’re like, “Oh, they’re both really big Star Wars fans.” (Lesley laughs) So we kind of got to get these guys together. So there was like, you know, breakfast and maybe a lunch and like, things like that. And, you know, I still remember it pretty vividly, you know, like, sitting down and like sizing him up and like looking him up and down. I mean, like, all right, I gotta do the manly thing and talk about sports and you know, like, what team played last night and this beer and like, you know, all in cars and like all that stuff that I’m really not interested in. And, you know, I think he was probably doing the same thing. And it just, you know, little, we chipped away at each other, you know, like little comments here and there, how you feeling, you know, and got more than an okay, occasionally and it kind of dove into just deeper, deeper conversations over the years. And I let Jeremy talked about like transitioning from like friends to work because like, I’m probably not the right one to speak about that. Because my full time job is like, really, really demanding. So Jeremy is the one who does most of the work. And like I just, you know … on the interviews, he gives me crap about it a lot. But I let him talk about that. (Lesley laughs)

Jeremy Grater
I mean, there’s definitely an evolution, right, when when all of a sudden your business partners and most of the conversations are, here’s the deadline, here’s what we got to do, make sure you show up, don’t be late, you know, what all that all this sort of stuff. And then, you know, the show is where we sort of are able to pull that curtain back a little bit. But but honestly, between, you know, he’s got his thing going on, I’ve got my thing going on, there’s 2000 miles between us, we don’t have the opportunities that we had, as friends to just like, really check in as much. You know, I think that there have been a few times in the last year where, you know, things, things got really dark for either one of us, and we could call each other and say, “Hey, you know, this is not shelled, this is life. And then I need to, I need to, you know, share this or whatever.” So there’s still room for that, you know, obviously, the invitation I know is open both ways to continue doing that. But I know that a lot of what our show is, is sharing our struggle and sharing, you know, and I don’t even know that we’re really struggling as much anymore. We’ve come so far that I don’t know that, that it’s the same as it was in the beginning, I think there was a lot of complaining, right? There was a lot of just whining, this is hard. And I don’t know how to do this. And and now we know how to do it. It’s now it’s you know, how do you start, you know, start the fire that keeps burning and keeps it going? And where do you find that motivation? How do you create that motivation so that you keep showing up every day? (Lesley: Yeah.) And so we do share those experiences within the show. And it’s just the the great thing is there is no filter there. So it’s, it’s very real, it’s very authentic. We’re just exchanging what’s working for us and what’s not. But definitely, you know, when you put 2000 miles between people, it’s going to be tough to keep that …

Lesley Logan
Well and you have families, unlike other jobs you do. This is not the only thing that you do. And I think that’s really important for people to hear. Because we have a lot of people who have a job, and then they want to do something else or, or they have a project that they did with a friend. And so if you if you’re not intentional about the friendship part. It’s the same thing I work with my husband, we strive to be intentional about the marriage part. Otherwise, (Jeremy: Right) it’s work all the time, right? Like it’s (Jeremy: Yeah) just something that really can it’s so easy in our society to do that. And I this one girlfriend that we will use each other’s like work calendars to book coffee dates, but we’ll go, “Okay, personal life first. And then we’ll get to work.” Like we, (Jeremy: Right, right.) you kind of have to label like, this is personal and now let’s go into the prep. Okay, now let’s work. And that can be difficult, because you may not want to rock the boat, you may not want to bother someone, but if people really care about you, and you say, “Hey, this is a life thing. Can I talk to you?” Most often people will go drop what they’re doing to be there for you, even if it’s for five minutes, or they’ll say, “Can we call at me in 15 minutes? I got to do this thing.” Like people do want to show up for other people if they know, I just said oftentimes they don’t know because they’re busy doing all the whirlwind that exists in their lives. And so it’s not personal. It’s not they’re not thinking about you. So I think it is really important. I love that you guys say like, “Hey, I gotta talk right now, like, this is something that’s really important.” People need to know that that’s what we have to do sometimes to get that support that we need.

Jeremy Grater
And definitely reach out right like if that is something you need reach out, because like you said, no one’s out there going, “Oh, I wonder how Jeremy is doing right now.” Like they’re, they’re on their way to work. They’re dropping the kids off at soccer. They’re making getting dinner ready. They’re doing it like they’re not sitting there wondering how … It might be a flash in their mind for a second. But, you know, I can’t sit here and go, “Oh, nobody ever calls me that I’m so alone. This sucks.” Like that’s on me if I’m if I’m lonely and I need connection, I need to reach out and make that connection. And and it’s the same, like you said, a million things going on but you have to make room for that stuff. Otherwise, you just keep stuffing that down and stuffing that down. And then you know it comes out and other ways that are not as productive.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, yeah. So as you guys are continuing on with the pod, like what are you most excited about with the podcast next? What conversations are you are you guys hoping to have with people so your listeners can hear them?

Zach Tucker
Well, you know, I think we, we’ve had so many conversations and to be honest, like a lot of conversations are starting to repeat over each other. You know, like a conversation from 18 months ago is very similar to one we’re having. We’re having today. I’m really excited about you know, like pushing forward into more of the motivation standpoint and and really just exploring how to keep up with with these changes that we want to make or that I want to make in my own personal life. I struggle a lot with with time management, like I said, my job, my full time job is pretty demanding and Je… I know Jeremy shakes his head whenever I say that, because I literally come into these interviews really hot like or late. (Jeremy laughs) You know, so just like really figuring out that balance, you know, talking to people who can help you with that balance of, here’s the thing, here’s how you make time for yourself. And here’s how you maximize that time for yourself while also taking care of everything else. Because like you said earlier, like it’s a whirlwind. There’s so many things going on. And it’s about time management, it’s about getting in all those things. And you said earlier, take care of yourself first. I want to I want to dive deeper into that, because we all know the right things to do. We all know kind of what works for us. And we’re all unique individuals. And you know, creatine works for me, it doesn’t work for everyone like, you know, something like that. But how do you fit that all in? And how do you do it in a way where you don’t absolutely go crazy. That’s what I’m really excited about.

Jeremy Grater
And I think for me, we’ve we’ve been in a place now with the show where I can’t remember the last time that we had to go find a guest, a lot of people come to us. And I want to I want to get back to like when we started it was nobody knew who we were, we didn’t exist and we had to cold call and beg people to come on the show. (Lesley: Yeah.) And somehow we pulled off incredible guests. And that was like that was the spark for me that was like, “Oh, this this is great. We’re gonna really do something with this.” And now it’s it’s kind of become routine, we’ve gotten comfortable, you know, the the email comes in. Yeah, that fits, we can we can do something with that, that’ll be a good, a good conversation. I want to get back to really exploring what I am doing. And find the people that can tell that story that can help me tell that story of how this works. We had someone on I think, I think her episode was posted a couple of weeks ago, but actually had a session with her yesterday talking about neuro linguistic programming. I had a session with her and it blew my mind. Like we because we did the interview before I actually had done the work. And I know this is relatively old modality or whatever. But it was new to me. And I was completely blown away by how in this, you know, 20 minutes or whatever it was like I went from like a nine on a pain scale to a what were we even talking about? (Lesley: Wow) … just through this, like, basic Q&A and the way she said the things she said and the way I responded. And I was blown away. And I just was like, “I want more of that in my life. I want to (Lesley: Yeah) I want to be exploring more.” And not just sort of doing my routine and sharing what’s working. And oh, that’s an interesting book. Let’s talk about that. Like, I want to really dive in again, and get really curious about what’s still out there that I haven’t explored to share that.

Lesley Logan
I 100% understand, because when when I started the podcast too, it was like, I had to seek out the guests. And I was I was always like surprised when certain people said yes. I’m like, (Jeremy: Yeah) “Thank God, think that’s amazing.” And then you do get to a point where like, there’s people who are pitching you and like and that seems convenient. And they seem interesting. And for those of you listening, it’s kind of like when you first became when first your business like you are to see yourself in the story. It’s like you go out and you’re trying to find all the clients and all of a sudden you start to get these referrals and like you get more referrals and like, it’s good, but like none of these people, not none of them, but most of them don’t light you up. Like you probably wouldn’t pick those people again, you’d be like, well, they’re fine. And so it’s like getting back into that space where like, actually, I want to just be the one in charge and seeking out and asking the people and I find that really the most fun is like I don’t mind people pitching at me at all. I get them all the time. But I am a lot more I like if I would I have sought out this person if I had known what they were doing. You know, and and that is the same thing with the clients that I coach and the people that were like, what I have, like, actually, like gone out and sought this person out. Because if not, then like, that’s nice. And let’s put them over here. And it’s not a never. It’s just a not a not right now.

Jeremy Grater
Right. Right. Right. For sure.

Zach Tucker
Yeah, yeah. And it’s, like you said it’s very, very convenient. And it’s easy to fall into that that part of it. And, and I actually really loved you know, those those times where like, you know, when we were, Jeremy and I would sit down for half an hour and be like, “Okay, who do we want to talk to?” And we’d make that list. And then we you know, do all the cold calling and I’ll never forget the day Jeremy texted me. He’s like, “What are you doing next Thursday at 12:30?” I was like, “Nothing. Why?” And he’s like, “Okay, we’re talking to Sean T.” And I was like, “What? Oh my God. So amazing.” (Lesley: That’s insane.) I absolutely love that feeling. And we haven’t had as many of those those moments lately. (Jeremy: Yeah …)

Lesley Logan
Well, I’m the accountability queen. So I feel like, I feel like I need an update from you guys before the end of the year. Like, did you get more prioritization of your of your calendar Zach and Jeremy? Have you been like seeking out your like dream guests?

Jeremy Grater
Right. Definitely. That’s it’s on my list for sure. (Zach: Yeah …)

Lesley Logan
All right … We’re gonna take a brief moment and we’re gonna come back and find out your BE IT action items and where people can find you, follow you, listen to see if you guys do this things that you’re saying you want. (Jeremy, Zach and Lesley laughs) No pressure.

Jeremy Grater
You’ll find out.

Lesley Logan
Okay, so where where can people listen to your podcast, where you guys like to hang out on social media?

Jeremy Grater
The podcast and pretty much everything you’re gonna find this, the website thefitmess.com. And then we’re on all the main social media things at The Fit Mess or sorry at @fitmessguys. So at @fitmessguys on TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, whatever. We probably spend the most time I think, well we have a Facebook group, we spend a lot of time in there. And then otherwise, Instagram seems to get a lot of traction. So we hang out in those two places, primarily.

Lesley Logan
Awesome. We will link all of that below. And you guys can listen to your pod on any place that podcasts (Jeremy: All the things.) are playing. Yeah … Yeah. Okay. So next is the bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. You each can have as many as you want. So who wants to go first? (Jeremy: Go ahead Zach.)

Zach Tucker
I can go first, I think the one thing that has made the biggest difference in my entire life. And I’ll start high level will go a little deeper as a little bit deeper with some details. But is to really and I mentioned it earlier is questioning your own beliefs. So as you’re going through whatever journey you’re going through, you know, whatever you have learned as a child are taken in from somebody you know, and believe it wholeheartedly. It might not be true. And to really open yourself up to and question those truths. I know, for me, just as an example, you know, as a child, I was called fat, I was called ugly, I was called stupid, from multiple sources all over the place. And to this day, at 43 years old, with a relatively high IQ, a relatively trim body, you know, like, I still feel, I still feel fat and stupid. And those are, you know, truths that I believe, based on things that happened in my past. And, you know, that’s just one example. But really, as you’re going through, as you’re reading things, as you write things off, as you say, that’ll never work for me. Really, really question why you believe the way you believe something, and just be open to the fact that you might be wrong. And realizing that you’re wrong, could change your entire perspective on something and take you in a direction that you never thought you could go.

Lesley Logan
I like that a lot. I think that’s a great intrinsic action item, you guys. What about you, Jeremy?

Jeremy Grater
It sounds big and kind of flaky but it really starts with the decision. And I don’t mean, I’m going to, I’m going to do the workout and I’m going to start Monday. I mean, you really have to decide. My journey began because I had a knee injury. And my brother and the advice I was given was get on a bike. And I was complaining to my brother about it. And he said, “Well, dude, all you have to do is decide you’re the weird guy who rides his bike to work every day.” And I had ridden hadn’t ridden a bike and you know, 20 years or whatever. And I was like, “Well, that’s insane.” And then I thought about it. And the way that he said at that time, it stuck with me. And I decided he’s right. I’m the weird guy that rides his bike to work every day and a week I had a bike and I was biking to work every day. And it was literally making the decision and only like feeling I am that person. I don’t have to become I am them today. I don’t have the bike yet. That’s it, that’s just a minor hurdle on the way. But when you make that decision to become that person, it becomes really easy to as you’d like to be it till you see it to start taking those steps. But it has to be more than, “Oh, I gonna get to the gym. Oh, I got to eat better.” But like, you have to decide, “I’m the person who eats better. I’m the person who goes to the gym.” Like it just has, you just have to own it, you have to put that hat on, and it has to be a part of who you are. So I mean, I know that’s kind of vague and woowoo we and I hope that’s enough of an action. But it really is the thing that at every point in my life when I was the most scared I wasn’t the most challenged. I didn’t know what to do. When I just decided there’s there’s no with there’s no wishy washy here, I just am this person now. That’s when the biggest changes have happened. And I’ve been able to face those fears and overcome them.

Lesley Logan
Oh, I do love that. I mean, it’s not to me, it’s not wishy washy, like you’re giving people permission to make a decision for themselves. And, and before they’re, before they are the thing. You know like and so I think that it’s amazing. You guys, thank you so much. This has been a really fun conversation. I feel like we’re colleagues even though we’re not but also I think it’s really fun for people to see behind the curtains of how things are done and what the thought process that people go through and then also how you got to where you are. So thank you for this. Y’all, how are you going to use these action items in your life? What were your takeaways from this podcast? Please tag @fitmessguys and the @be_it_pod with your takeaway. Share this with a friend and I know most of you have male in your life, so you can actually just share a podcast, share The Fit Mess Podcast with them as well while you’re at this so you can share this with your girlfriends and that with your guy friends and have an amazing day. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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