Ep. 211 with Brittany Hodak
“I quickly realize that like if you’re gonna step into that author identity, it means asking for help and having a really great team.”
Lesley interviews Brittany Hodak, a famous keynote speaker and author of “Creating Superfans” on this episode. She shares what inspired her to write the book and some personal anecdotes to take your business to the next level and build a loyal customer base.
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In this episode you will learn about:
- Brittany Hodak’s journey of writing her book, Creating Superfans.
- Author identity and how to cope with overwhelm
- The impact of Creating Superfans on different industries
- The role of customer satisfaction in generating referrals and ultimately growing a business.
- The value of audience feedback and adaptability in content creation
- Creating Superfans: https://brittanyhodak.com/book/
- Page Two Books: https://pagetwo.com/
- Time Genius Online Course by Marie Forleo: https://www.marieforleo.com/time-genius
- Shiv Singh (@shivsingh)
- The Big Leap by Gay Hendrix: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Leap-Conquer-Hidden-Level/
Brittany Hodak: I wanna take what I think are all the most important business lessons and package them in a way to where whether somebody is like 17, starting their first job or 70. Whether they love business books or have never read one in their life, will pick up this book and feel like they’re having a conversation with a friend.
I wanted to feel like you had a friend who was like, Hey, here’s all the stuff that’s worked really well for me that I’ve seen work really well for other people, and the research to back up why that works.
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.
All right, Be It babe, I will get ready cuz this is like a podcast where two friends who have never met, basically just share amazing stories back and forth. I am so excited for you to hear the amazing words of Brittany Hodak, the author of Creating Superfans. Um, whether or not you are in business or you want to be, this book is really fun and I want you to hear her journey.
So even if you don’t wanna read the book, which you’re gonna wanna read it at the end of this podcast, I want you, if you’ve ever wanted to write a book or start a podcast or start something that has content creation that’s gonna take some time. I want you to hear her journey. I want you to hear how she, the twists and turns that were in there.
And then also like what she considered when she was bringing this to fruition. Because you can see yourself in this story, and that’s the point of this podcast, is just like you can see yourself in the different stories of our guests. Also, I just really genuinely think you’re going to love her and she is the first guest to quote her child at the Be It Pods, uh, Be It action item.
If you wanna hear that, that is a reason to listen to this. But at any rate, you’re gonna love every word that comes out of Brittany’s mouth. I’m just so grateful to have been introduced to her by someone else so I can bring her to you. And our agency members got to experience all of her amazing words already, and so amazing people like her are who we love to surround ourselves with because they make us better.
And I am excited to bring her around you cuz you’re going to love it and Be It Till You See It
And stick around to the very end because we got some outtakes that’s been happening. There’s always outtakes. Um, and the team does collect them for bloopers on the YouTube, but uh, we’re adding them into the end of the pod because you know what you need to know that we are not perfect. You’re not perfect, and we’re enjoying the process and we are enjoying that.
So have a good laugh on our behalf. Love you.
All right. Be it babes. I am so excited. Thank goodness for amazing women who do amazing introductions because today’s guest is actually an intro from a past guest that we had, and, um, I’m so grateful that Hillary connected us because I one Brittany Hodak is our guest today.
I’m just gonna like say your name. So I’m gonna say this like fangirling right now. I love your book. Creating Superfans is just so fun, so fun to read. I read it on the beach in Mexico, like I made my whole team read it and I’m just, I think what you’re doing is actually breaking down things to make things easier for people to have the business they wanna have with the right fans they wanna have.
And so thank you Brittany for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you’re rocking at these
Brittany Hodak: days? Well, thank you so much for having me, Lesley. I’m so excited to be here, and I’m so glad that you loved the book. These days, I’m out there spreading the word about this book. It was my baby.
I worked on it for so long. It came out into the world earlier this year in January, and I am just so excited that people are discovering the message. I am obsessed with customer experience. I think it’s the most fun, most important. Honestly most exciting thing about business and I am on a mission to help indoctrinate everybody else to feel that exact same way.
Lesley Logan: Yeah, I think that’s a, it’s almost like the thing that people think about last, which is so weird. They’re like, okay, this is the idea I have and I wanna do it. And then they, they don’t actually see it from the user’s perspective. And it can be as simple as you guys, it could be as simple as your customer experience is like the scheduling tool.
Like nothing drives me like more insane than not having one. Cuz when I wanna book with you. I just wanna book with you. And then if your scheduling tool sucks, I can’t. So, um, so I think that’s really cool. Yes. So important. We have so much we can get into, but first I just wanna say like, you wrote a book.
Was that like just the craziest thing to endure? Did you have to quit everything to get it done? How long did it take you?
Brittany Hodak: Well, so it’s actually kind of a funny story. We always like think we have our plans and then life lets us know otherwise. I had started writing this book at the end of 2019 and my second son was born in May of 2020, so I knew that I was gonna be too pregnant to fly for like the month and a half or so before he was born.
So I had my calendar full of keynote gigs from January to March of 2020. And then I was like, I’m gonna spend March and April finishing this book. Like it’s gonna be great because my then three year old was in daycare, so I was like, oh, it’ll be perfect. And then of course the world shut down and that did not happen.
And so then, not only was I like home with a three-year-old every day, but then when my son was born, I was home with both of them because you know, back then, yeah, everything was still like so uncertain about Covid. We were like, we don’t wanna send the older one back to preschool. So I got no writing done, and then at the beginning of 2021 a speaking client of mine who had hired me a bunch of time was like, please, please, please come help us relaunch our brand. They were rebranding to experience.com and they wanted me to come be their Chief Experience officer. And I was like, well, that does sound very much in alignment with what I do and what I care about, so I spent most of 2021 at experience.com. And so it wasn’t until like the end of 2021 that I got back to writing the book. And when I did that I was like, oh, I wanna rewrite everything. I wanna redo all of it. So I ended up writing over a hundred thousand words for this book that is like 57,000 words long.
So there is so much that I wrote so much that I did the. First draft that I sent to my publisher, I sent in like January or February of 2022. And then we were working on it all year long. It printed in October of 2022, and then it was in stores in January of 2023. So it was a really, really long process.
And now every time somebody tells me they wanna write a book, I’m like, have you thought of starting a podcast? Because there’s merit to that too.
Lesley Logan: I, 100% understand this, and I thank you for sharing that because I think sometimes people. I think most of our listeners have a story similar where they had this plan, they had this beautiful plan in Covid or whatever, and then they had another opportunity that they took and they almost get upset at themselves for not doing the original plan or giving, not giving themselves base space and grace and like obviously you taking that job at experience.com allowed you to even get more ideas, more experience for how you want this book to land. And so your book was born when it was supposed to be born and also at a time when people can have customers that can experience something, you know, and all those things. So I think, um, I think it’s just really nice to hear from someone that it’s not a perfect journey and like there are some detours and they actually enhance the thing that you wanna do.
And yes, as someone who wrote a book 10 years ago, uh, it’s only in this last like few months and I’m like, okay, I could fried another one. Like it’s say, gimme 10 years to go.
You know, I think I’m healed. I’m from, I’m not journey.
Brittany Hodak: Yes. Well it’s so funny cuz people are already asking me like, when’s your next book coming out?
And I’m like, uh, 2027. Mark your calendars because it’s like once you write it, I feel like, first of all, I feel like right now we’re at this moment where there’s so many people who are like, I’m gonna write a book. And they wanna do it as like a business card and they don’t put a ton of thought into it.
Or they hire somebody who does a lot of the work and there’s nothing wrong with that at all, but, like those people aren’t looking at the long game like they’re saying like, I wanna have a book, not, I wanna have her book and promote it for years and years and years. (Lesley: Yeah). Like part of why I was so excited for this book to come out in January is so that all year long, I can call it my new book.
Like my new book that came out this year because you know, as customers when you find out about something, it’s new to you. Like it doesn’t matter how old or new it is. Like I just started watching some series on Netflix the other day, uh, called You with Penn Badgley, which is like very fascinating.
He’s a serial killer. It’s. Very …(Lesley: Oh, oh I was up my alley. I’m excited.) Yeah. No, it’s a, it’s a really good show. Um, but I was like telling some of my friends and they were like, yeah, Brittany, the show is like six years old. And I was like, I know, but it’s new to me cuz none of you ever told me about it, even though you apparently were all enjoying it for years.
So it’s the same with the book. Like, I wanted to write a book that would be really approachable and really accessible and feel really timeless so that if somebody was reading it when it came out, or if somebody’s reading it in like 10 years, it still feels like it’s really, you know, applicable to what’s happening.
Lesley Logan: Yeah. I mean like the, um, As I was reading it, what I loved so much is that there, there are so many different things you can take out of it. Like I said earlier, we’re having people on the team read it. They don’t actually run the company, but if they can understand the process, you talk about like with apathy, like I literally have like on my computer, it’s like a post.
Like where can apathy like are you like, are you like that for apathy? And so it’s like I just want the team to understand that process so they can go in this part right here that I’m responsible for, this is where apathy can happen, you know? And I want the people on the team to think about that.
And that doesn’t matter if people are using AI now or if people are doing things in whatever metaverse they’re trying to force us all into. Or if it’s like in real life that is, that word is transcendent. So I think you did a really good job there. Um, and that way it can be your new book all year long, but it could be someone’s new favorite book next year, you know?
Brittany Hodak: Well, thank you. Yes. I hope lots of people will continue to discover it. To discover it. The thing that’s been so amazing. And like so touching and so exciting is how many people have told me kind of like you, like I read the book and then I bought it from my team, or I read the book and I ordered it for my clients.
Or people are telling me like, oh, my friend her who heard about it from her friend who heard about it from her friend told me to get this book. And so it’s just been really, really cool. It’s, you know, like watching your little baby go out there into the world and make ripples. So yeah, it’s been really fun.
Lesley Logan: So I. I wanna go to like, cuz it’s like a whole new hat to wear, right? Like, you have, you, you have had incredible journey and we don’t, I mean we could talk about your incredible journey for hours cuz you’ve just done so many amazing things. But you know, going from like, Like chief experience officer of all these amazing places to I’m gonna put myself in a room and write a book that takes like a, that’s a whole different identity. Um, was it an easy identity to step into? You’re like, yep, I can sit down and write this book, I’m so ready. Or did you struggle with any mindset things going on there?
Brittany Hodak: So I think a little bit of both depending on the day.
Um, I have always loved books so, so much like when I was a baby, I took books into my crib with me. Like it’s funny, I was a baby in the eighties where it was like how many pillows and padded things can we put in the cribs just like these little, like sleep death traps. Um, but I never wanted to take toys into my crib with me.
I always wanted to take books and I had my favorite books and I just have always loved love books. So I’ve wanted to be an author like my whole life. Like my mom was sending me pictures of my school book where it’s like every year you had to say what you wanted to be. Mine was always like author and astronaut.
Like, that was what I wanted to do. So I’d been like ready. And I think because of that I had put so much pressure on myself, like I’d built it up over like decades and decades and decades and decades to where when it was time to write it, I was like, it has to be so good. And I also didn’t ask for nearly as much help early on as I should have, and I worked with an amazing publishing company called Page Two and they really helped me through like the different rounds of edits and design and thinking about like how we wanted the book to feel and look. But early on I was like, I have to do this myself. Like I thought like to be an author it meant like you’re doing every single part of it entirely on your own.
And then I realized that was like very unsustainable and luckily I have an amazing chief of staff named Alex on my team who was able to like get into the draft and be like, oh, I think this point would do really well like in this chapter that you’re writing or, oh, you kind of talk about this and you say like research to follow.
Like do you want me to give you some options for research that would really like back up this point? So between Alex and the team at Page Two, I quickly realize that like if you’re gonna step into that author identity, it means asking for help and having a really great team around you, which I think is honestly true of like all things in life that are worth doing.
Lesley Logan: Yeah. I was just thinking in like, Um, I had just interviewed someone, uh, earlier today and she said, like I said, what are the five mistakes you see people making in like their business? And she said, oh, trying to do it all themselves. Like, I think so often people, and people also project this on, I’m sure this happens to you.
It happens other times. Like, oh my gosh, you do so much. How do you do it all yourself? And I’m like, I really don’t. Like when our websites went down, they were down for. Whole six days. Like, no, like six days, like is like 1999. No, no way of doing. You couldn’t go on our website. They did not exist. And um, people are like, are you doing okay?
And I’m like, well, I can’t actually fix them. So I’m doing pretty great cuz I have a really awesome team. I trust them a lot. And I’m over here just like fielding the customer service stuff cuz I can actually talk to people. I know how to do that, but I can’t, can’t stress about those things. And so I think people will look at you or look at people that they admire and go, oh, they did it all on their own, even though you have a whole team. So I think it’s great that you were able to lean into them and see how they could enhance the whole experience too.
Brittany Hodak: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s so key for people to have those teams around them, whatever that looks like, whether you’re just starting out and that means you have like a virtual assistant a few hours a week, or maybe you have full-time help, but y you’ve gotta have that.
And something that I wish I had done years ago, uh, you know, Marie Forleo. …(Lesley: Oh yes. Oh yes.) So for year, like a couple of years, people were telling me like, oh, I took Time Genius, which is one of the courses she offers. And like, it was so transformational. And I just always thought like, isn’t it about time management?
How could time management course be transformational? So I never did it. And then right after my book came out, I was flying all over the place. I had, I think I had like 17 events in the first eight weeks of the year. Like it was bonkers. Oh gosh. It was like, my gosh, I would wake up and I was like, what city am I in?
What city am I going to? I actually had an Uber driver take me to the wrong airport once because I was somewhere in Pennsylvania and to get me to the next place, it was like, I was going to another city, but I told him the wrong one. I said like Lancaster instead of,
oh my goodness. …(Brittany: Something else.
or something else.) Yeah. So I was in Hershey, Pennsylvania and I went to the wrong airport to get to like, I don’t know, Boston or wherever I was going. So anyway, it was stressful. Yeah. Dallas, I don’t even know where I was going. Um, so anyway, I was like very overwhelmed and so I signed up for Time Genius, which is like an online course.
And at the beginning there was something that Marie Forleo said that totally was a paradigm shift for me that I was like, oh my gosh, I wish I had heard this years ago. So I’ve been repeating it everywhere I can, and it was just the simple mantra of "I don’t do overwhelm." Like, so when you find yourself starting to get overwhelmed because of time, because of your schedule, because what you have to do, just reminding yourself that it is a choice to be overwhelmed or not overwhelmed because worrying in the moment about like all the stuff that you can’t do right now, I. Is not beneficial. Like it doesn’t help that task get done better. It’s like not great for your nervous system. It’s not great for your mental state. Like it’s just not great. So when you find yourself starting to like freak out about all of those things, you know, kind of telling yourself like I. Right. I know and I’m gonna address those when I have time to address those, but right now I’m making dinner, or right now I’m playing with my kids or doing this client meeting or whatever.
So those four words, I don’t do overwhelm, have like changed the way I think about my schedule and I wish I had heard them years ago.
Lesley Logan: I am, I love this so much. My brain, my brain was like thinking of something else that this all kind of goes to. So I’ll, I’ll take everyone on the journey my brain just went to, first of all.
Yes, I love that because you, your brain doesn’t wanna be in dissonance. So like when you say that, and if you say, especially if you say out loud, like you’re, you can’t start doing overwhelming stuff cuz you just said, I don’t do that. The other thing is, um, a lot of times, um, As we are going outside of our comfort zone, which like 17 trips and like so few weeks and all these things, like if you’re not used to doing those things, it’s like outside of the comfort zone.
And yes, it’s exciting. Yes, it’s everything you want, but there’s the book, the Big Leap with Gay Hendrix. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with it, but he talks about the things that we do to upper limit ourselves. One of those things that’s worrying or stressing or starting to list all the things that are going wrong.
Like just because something is going right and so you can start to do this stuff and by saying, I don’t do overwhelm, you can kind of stop that whole upper limiting moment and get yourself into some sort of present being like, I am cooking right now and when I’m done cooking I can go think about that thing.
That is overwhelming, but I’m not doing that right now. I love that. What a great, what a great course that’s, I’m sure there’s more to it, but that’s really helpful.
Brittany Hodak: Yeah, there was a lot more that was like literally like the first five minutes and I don’t even know if I finished the whole thing. I’m really bad at like signing up for things and then doing part of them, but that alone was worth the cost of the course for me.
Lesley Logan: Okay. I, um, I want to kind of go to, like, I wanna go back to this reason for writing the book because wanting to be an author is like, you know, Admirable and it’s amazing. There should be, I hope there’s more and more authors and more and more books out there.
I want us to all go back to reading them. And I love that this is a hard back. It’s my first hard back in years, so thank you. Uh, but what were you, like, why did you wanna write this book? What was the, because you could do a podcast or you could just go into a bunch of interviews, I’m sure you have. So like, what was it that the book was solving a problem for that you wanted to have out there?
Brittany Hodak: Well, the answer is twofold. One is, you know, I never planned on becoming a keynote speaker. It kind of was like an accidental career that I fell into. Um, I was an entrepreneur. I ran my own business for several years, and because we were invited to go on Shark Tank, I started getting all of these speaking requests.
And the more I did it, the more I got feedback from people saying like, you should really do this more. You’re so good at this. And. So like, one reason is when you are a keynote speaker, it really helps to have a book because it helps position you as a thought leader. It helps you sort of crystallize your thoughts.
It helps you put something out there that people can be like, oh, okay, I get it. I know what you’re about. So that was part of it. Um, but really the other part was, so I, I read all the time. I mean, I read like dozens and dozens of books a year. My husband reads like a book a year, and he doesn’t like business books.
And so many of my friends are like, I’ve never read a business book. I’ve never read like a personal development book, a professional development book, and like, those are my jam. Like I don’t read like fantasy novels or you know, Sci-fi, but I love a good non-fiction book. And so as I was talking to people who told me that they weren’t readers, I started to ask them Why, like, why don’t you read business books?
And people are like, they’re so boring. There’s never any real takeaways, like, it’s just such a waste of time. Or I try to read but I fall asleep. So my mission was to write a business book that didn’t feel like a business book. I was like, I wanna take. What I think are all the most important business lessons and package them in a way to where whether somebody is like 17, starting their first job or 70.
Whether they love business books or have never read one in their life, will pick up this book and feel like they’re having a conversation with a friend. I wanted to feel like you had a friend who was like, Hey, here’s all the stuff that’s worked really well for me that I’ve seen work really well for other people in their research to back up why that works.
And so that was why I really wanted to write the book, was to be able to prove even through some of the creative choices, you know, like you were talking about, like all the song titles and using color and using like funny pop culture references. I wanted to prove that you could make a business book feel fun and exciting and like something you would recommend to your girlfriend.
Lesley Logan: Yeah, I
mean, well done. You did it. Um, y’all, if you’re, if you’re not watching us on YouTube, cuz her, her book is in the, in the background. Um, let me just say like, I literally laughed as I was reading the book because the different chapters are, I think one of ’em is, uh, a title that we’ve made an, uh, Pilates class on OPC.
So I was like, oh, this girl’s my jam. But you, you know, I think that you hit something really important. You ask people questions about why they didn’t do the thing that you were wanting to create. And I think that’s a great thing for anyone. Maybe you don’t wanna write a book, but maybe you wanna start a podcast or maybe you want to, when we, actually, I’ll just do a real ex life example.
Brad wanted me to create onlinepilatesclasses.com. It’s a pilates platform. And I was like, well, they already exist. Like I’m on one, I’m on the number, I’m on the the top one. And so why would we create something that’s already out there and. So I just started asking people, do you use it? Like, what do you like about it?
What don’t you? And people were saying things like, well, I have it, but like, I don’t do this, or I don’t. And I started to figure out like what was the reason for not having it or why they weren’t using it. And I was like, well, if I was gonna create something like it, how can I solve those things, those objections.
And so it’s very similar and it makes it a, it makes it a lot of fun cuz now I’m solving a puzzle, like how do I create the thing that they, they could like, you know? So, um, that’s a really cool experience like, journey that you went through to get the book out there. Um, and so then what are you like now that you’ve got this book out,
I mean, you birthed the book, it’s out there like that probably had to feel so crazy cuz as you mentioned, you’ve been working on it for years. Um, what are you excited about, uh, this juncture? Like where are you going with this all next?
Brittany Hodak: Well, I’m just so excited to get feedback from people, people who work in all kinds of different industries who have reached out to me and have said we’ve changed the way we do our patient experience at our hospitals, or we’ve changed the way we do the onboarding of our employees.
Somebody told me that they work at a prison and they’re like, we need to think about the way that all of the prison employees treat our inmates. And so, …(Lesley: oh my gosh, Brittany) all these areas. I like never in a million years like would have thought like I was writing a book for this. I met somebody the other day that does industrial concrete polishing, which was, I’m not gonna lie an industry I did not know existed.
Um, so it’s really fun to hear people say, just like you’re saying, like, oh, I felt like you wrote this book for us. The cool thing about customer experience is it is universal. Like if you have customers or want to this is important and like you should be thinking about this. And so it’s been really, really fun to hear all those stories and honestly, I just am excited to continue spreading the word about the book and hopefully helping people change the way they think about their customers and make more money.
Lesley Logan: Yeah, and also like when you, and, and, and, and also for those of you who are like, are like, oh, scared of money. The more money you make, it means the more lives you’ve changed, the more hearts you’ve like helped. Like it’s …(Brittany: the more people you’ve helped.) It’s, I know, I mean like, I think people can get a little like, um, I’m making money and it’s like, especially like the, some of the women I talked to and I’m like, profit is not a bad word actually.
Uh, of the curse words that are out there, profit is not one of them. And also like, it’s a sign of helping people and like, Every person listening to this podcast wants to help people in a very specific way. And if you figure this out, that you’ve, you’ve so well written, you figure out the customer experience so well, um, you get to help more.
I mean, one of the ti I just got this question in my dms today. And it was like, um, should I, what are your thoughts on referral programs? And I was like, well, hello, I don’t coach in the dms, you know, blah, blah, blah. Um, uh, but I said, just so you know, like you really just can’t pay people to talk about you.
So if this is like, this can’t be the first thing that you’re thinking about when it comes to referrals, and it’s because people want referrals, but they think they have to reward people for those referrals and like, There people were referring people to things well before rewards programs were out there y’all.
So like that’s what I think is so great about your book is it actually helps people see, like you don’t actually have to pay the people. You don’t have to come up with some great, awesome discount for them. You can actually change the customer experience, so they can’t wait to talk about you.
Brittany Hodak: Well, thank you for saying that.
And yeah, it’s a hundred percent true. It’s, I think anytime somebody shares a referral offer or an affiliate offer, there’s always a little bit of hesitation of like, is this a hundred percent genuine or is this person sharing it because they like it and they’re gonna make 15%? And so there’s always that like push pull.
Um, and it’s funny, like I actually. Is like a little bit random. Um, I, I took my car in, uh, yesterday and like, just for an oil change and they always do this inspection like where, you know, they like send a video of like all the stuff that’s wrong. And so the guy was like, oh, you’re gonna need to replace your back brakes and you’re gonna need to replace your front brakes.
And there was like something in the middle of the car that I’d never heard of, like an arm or some, some sort of arm. Um, …(Lesley: you’re like, is the car gonna run right?) And I was like, my car is six years old and it’s got like 40,000 miles. Like, it’s not like, It’s not like what I would think of, my mind is like an old car.
So you know, I’m in there for the like hundred dollars oil change and filter change and whatever, and they’re like, oh yeah, so like, these are the services we recommend, and it was gonna be like $2,300. And so I immediately was like, I. I should just buy a new car. Like I don’t wanna spend $2,300 on this car that I like, don’t even like, um, that I just got cause you know, I like needed a car cuz I’m, I moved from New York to Tennessee and I needed a car and that was, that was like, okay, here’s like a dealership, I’ll get this car. Um, so I was like, oh, I should buy a Tesla. And I went on the website on my phone. Like, I was just like, oh, I wonder if Tesla has an SUV.
Like if they’ve got to, right. And like 10 minutes later I was like, oh, I just bought a Tesla. It’s like, I didn’t even mean to like, I was just like, oh, like I wonder what it would cost. And it was like, oh, I, wow. I can like do these wheels. I like this. I like this. So I literally bought like a very expensive car, or s u v, like, like on a whim because everybody who has a Tesla loves their Tesla. Yeah. Like it’s all about the evangelism, it’s all about that advocacy. And it’s so funny cuz I was texting my husband, um, cuz they, this is another very annoying thing about the car company, even though it was my car when we went together, they put his name and they were like, oh, like we’re gonna finance it together.
And I was like, I don’t know, this is my car. And every single time I do anything for that car even though I’ve like asked them to change this, it’s always under his name. So I’ll go in and I’m like, Hey, I’m Brittany. I’m here for an oil change. And they’re like, oh, we don’t have it, Brittany, could they be under another name?
And I’m like, is it still under Jeff? Like, is it, have you not… You’re like this customer experience, you just, just so you know, I don’t feel seen at all.
Yeah, exactly. Like, exactly. So it was so annoying. So I, I was just like, oh, I’m just gonna buy a Tesla. But it’s funny because, um, as I was doing it, I was like, wait, I think they have a referral program.
So I texted one of my friends and I was like, Dave, do you have a referral? Like I want to like get you credit or whatever. And he was like, oh, I don’t even know, like, let me check. And he went into his Tesla app and he was like, it looks like they’re only doing it now for solar panels. And I was like, oh, I’m sorry.
And he was like, but you should definitely buy one cuz they’re awesome. And I was like, okay. And then when I, my husband’s at South by Southwest to speak, so I was like, babe, I bought a Tesla. And he was like, did you go test drive one? And I was like, no, but I’ve like been in some, um, like, I’m sure it’ll be great.
Like, look how pretty it is.
Lesley Logan: So, but you know, okay. I love this story so much because first of all, here’s these people who are like, oh, we’re gonna upsell this person on these things. And, and you’re like, if I’m missing $2,300, I may as well just buy the, the car that I really want. And like, obviously the experience with them isn’t good enough.
That makes you wanna keep coming back to them. So you’re like, I’m just gonna get this thing over here that everyone raves about. And, um, I, I too, I mean, they, that’s what they want. They want us all buying cars off of the internet now anyways. I mean, that’s why there’s a vending machine of cars by the freeway that I drive past.
Um, so, but I also think that’s true. Like we, uh, you know, obviously people ask me about Pilates equipment and I, I have to say, I’m like, look, I will be completely honest with you, um, the company that I’m going to say I like, I am also an authorized person to say that I like it. So I actually will not tell you that things, but I’ll be really honest why I like this one and I will get paid if you use this thing.
So just so you are cl fully aware of like all the things around that. Um, obviously my joy and my love for it extends past like the getting paid for it, but it’s true, people do wanna make sure that the referral is for a good reason and, and genuine because, and also the people that are now, like nowadays, I think a lot of people are afraid to sell their friends on things after like, you know, the eighties and nineties of MLMs selling their friends of baskets
Brittany Hodak: and makeup, tens of MLMs in the 2000 twenties of MLMs.
Right. I know they a bunch of people who still have some of those ugly leggings. Oh, were they called LuLaRoe?
Lesley Logan: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Talk about, talk about a UX experience for their sellers. That’s a word. That’s a interesting documentary to watch y’all. Um, but it’s. It’s so true and, and I, and I, I get why people ask like, what are the best referral programs?
Cuz I do understand that they’re like trying to get their clients to talk more about the things. But what I’ve always believed, and this comes from the first person to ever talk to me about when I was a Pilates instructor, this teacher came up to me and he said, do you want one of the best advice you could ever have for business?
And I said, sure, tell me. He says, get focus on getting one client and making them like your best number one client, and if you get them all the results that they want quickly, you will have a full book of clients. And I was like, okay. So I got this my first client and they’re like, oh, I have to reschedule next week.
I’m like, can you come Thursday? Can you come? I like, just like I like took that advice to home and then sure enough, they just started referring me people, because people noticed they were standing taller, noticed that they had more flex, like their friends noticed that they were more active, so their friends were just asking them, Hey, what are you doing?
They weren’t like passing my cards around, and so I think we forget that it’s more about the actual people we’re helping in the moment and less about the people that we haven’t seen yet. You know, like we don’t know them yet. And if you can just change your focus, it really can enhance the business and you don’t have to come up with point cards.
Brittany Hodak: Yeah. And I think it’s kind of, you know, it reminds me of my, my kids. So I’ve got a two year old and a five year old little boy, and. You know, like most kids, my five year old, like all like wants a new toy and it’s like the most important thing. He’s like, I want this toy, I want this toy, I want this toy, I want this toy.
He gets it and he is happy for like, I don’t know, 12 seconds and then it’s about the next toy. And he doesn’t appreciate the toys he has because he wants that next toy. And I’m trying to like, you know, help him out of that mindset. But it reminds me of the way so many people treat their customers. It’s like, you’re like, okay, if I could only get 10 customers this month, and then you get your 10 customers and all of a sudden it’s like, well, I should get 20 next month. And instead of taking great care of those 10 that you have, you’re trying to like look ahead to the next, look ahead to the next. So treating every customer as the most important customer you have does exactly what you just described.
Every time. Mm-hmm. And that’s why one of the epigraphs, which that epigraph is a word that I learned when I was writing my book and epigraph is the like quote at the beginning of the chapter when you quote somebody else. One of the epigraphs in my book is by a guy named Shiv Singh, who’s uh, right now he’s the CXO at Lending Tree, but he’s worked for a ton of giant companies in his life.
And that epigraph is the purpose of a business is to create a customer who creates customers. And that’s exactly what you just described. And if you follow that advice, everything else takes care of itself.
Lesley Logan: Yeah, yeah. I agree. And I, I’m sure there’s people listening and they’re like, Lesley, you have affiliate links. Yes, we do. You can sign up for them if you want to, and you only have to promote them if you want to. But, um, uh, cuz I like paying you when you do. Absolutely.
But I, um, I think it’s, I really have wanted to make it my focus in everything that we do, like how do we just take care of the people that we have and then when we do things to get new clients, new members and things like that, I want it to be, I want our members to be like, of course I’m gonna share that.
Like I would, I wouldn’t even have to ask them. Like that’s just always been the thing. And it’s not an easy task. Like it sounds easy like we’re talking about, like I love that quote so much. And it’s like, yes, that’s the thing. It is so hard in practice, but if you make that your priority, It becomes easier over time and you can really reap the rewards, um, a lot quicker than just focusing on the next new thing, you know?
So you just did an amazing. Amazing job with this. I’m sure there’s be more things that come around with this book. I’m sure they’ll be, I don’t know, merch or checklists.
Actually, there’s so many, there’s so much content that I have, um, in the book I mentioned this URL to where people can go and they can download a playbook, um, to sort of help them go through the five step process that I talk about in the book, which I call the supermodel.
And then there’s like PDFs of a bunch of pages in the book. But. As we wrote it, like we kept thinking of more things to add and then readers, like somebody, somebody sent me an email and then like two days later somebody sent me a DM that basically said exactly the same thing, which is, I wish there was a discussion guide cuz I wanna do this for my book club.
And we were like, yeah, that’s a great idea. So we made a discussion guide. So all of these resources that we keep creating, somebody else was like, oh, I love all of your sales advice, but I’m an introvert and I feel like it’s really hard to be an introvert in sales. Have you ever thought about creating the sales or the Introverts Guide to Sales?, and I was like, Nope. But that’s a great idea. And a week later we had it and it’s up. And so in the resource library is what we call, …(Lesley: oh my gosh.) It’s like there’s all of these resources in the resource library because of things that people have like read the book and reached out and said like, can you make this?
I That’s so cool that your resource library is like an ever-changing organic thing. Um, I, we get that question a lot. Like I’m, cuz my, my husband has, um, a course, like 200 Rejections to Success. He’s like, look, he’s like, it’s a numbers game. You’re gonna reject it more than, than you won’t be. But like you, if you get to 200 nos before you have a full schedule, then we really have to talk about you really understand who you’re talking to, but you just can’t like, just like, you just get better over time.
And then we have people like I’m. I’m an introvert, so I can’t do that. And I said, well, let me just be really clear. You get your energy by being alone. So you might be shy or might be afraid of rejection, like, but you, like, I, I also like to be by myself to get energy. It is not easy to be rejected nor those things.
So I love that you created that for people, because I do think some people will see, they go, oh, it must be easy for them, and then there’s a reason why they can’t do it. And so you’re just like, I took that reason away. Sorry. Here you go.
Brittany Hodak: Exactly.
Lesley Logan: Oh my gosh, Brittany. Well you are so cool. I am so excited. Um, by the time this comes out, you will already have spoken to our agency members.
Um, so y’all, if you are like what? Um, yes. The agency members got to have Brittany all to themselves, um, and you all have to just go grab this book. I swear, even if you think I’m only gonna have like a small business at the farmer’s market, you will have the best small business, the most thriving small business, um, ever because we’ve read this book so quick, we’re gonna take a quick break, Brittany, and then we’ll come back, find out where people can find you, follow you, work with you, and you’ll Be It action items.
All right, Brittany, you’ve given us some amazing advice. Before we get to those Be It action items, where do you like to hang out? Are you on Instagram? Are you on LinkedIn? Where are all the things and where can people buy your book?
Brittany Hodak: I am on all of the places. I’m @ brittanyhodak everywhere. Uh, I got very lucky when I married my husband for a lot of reasons.
He’s a great guy, but, um, one of them was the SEO o my maiden name was Jones. So luckily now as Britney Hodak, there is much less competition for those handles. So I’m @brittanyhodak. Just about everywhere you can be at something. Um, so people can find me there. My website is brittanyhodak.com and if you wanna pick up the book, you can get the hard cover at your favorite local independent bookstore.
You can also get it at Barnes and Noble, Books-A-Million or Amazon.com. And if you want the ebook version or the audiobook version, which I narrate, those are available at Amazon.
Lesley Logan: Oh, you do your own narration?
Brittany Hodak: I did it. Oh my gosh. It was so hard. It was like, I thought it would be easy. I was like, I do podcasts all the time. Speak for a living. Recording an audiobook is like a different beast.
Did you do yours when you wrote your book?
Lesley Logan: Uh, we haven’t done it yet and the team is like wanting me to do it and I’m like, I have to get the editors ready cuz like, Like, I feel like, do you have to say the sentences like over and over and over again or like you just read it and tell you like, don’t fuck up?
Brittany Hodak: Um, yeah. Well, so that my audio engineer who’s great, I worked with this company called Twin Flames, and Steven, my engineer, was like, your homework is to read the whole book out loud. And I maybe read like, Six pages. Like, cuz I was like, oh, I’ll read it when I’m like putting my kids to bed, like instead of a bedtime story.
And they immediately were like, no, mom, not like popping up. This isn’t good. Not, not this. Um, so I had not read it out loud. And it’s weird, like you don’t think about how certain words sound and you know, like how when you say any word enough times, it just like starts to sound weird.
Lesley Logan: Yeah.
Brittany Hodak: That was what recording the book was like.
Like I was like experience, exper experience. Like, it just, it’s, it was such a weird experience. So I think it took me like 14 or 15 hours of recording to record a book that’s like, I don’t know, six or seven hours long.
Lesley Logan: Yeah. I mean, I believe that only cuz um, one of, one of my, my book is called Profitable Pilates: Everything But the Exercises and just for me to say profitable, like I have to go profit.
Because if I say it too fast, like profitable, it’s seven syllables. It’s seven syllables. Right. It’s predictable.
Yeah. It’s, and then, and then, so, okay, I, y’all, I have to, I haven’t showed this up, this, sorry, on the podcast, but like, this is, this is just like, uh, an example of like what me reading my own book would sound like.
So it was my birthday. And we had this like party at this, it’s this really cool old bar in downtown Vegas. And my dad was there and he had brought a gift, which is so nice, right? And so I had not actually had my drink yet. Like I, maybe I had a sip of it. It was like sitting there and there’s this like bright yellow box on the table and Brad’s like, well open up your presents.
So then everyone like stops talking to like watch me, like open up my present. So Brad’s like, well read the cover of the box. Like I took the wrapping paper off and had like these words on it and I was like, keep sake. And Brad’s like, you wanna read that again? And I was like, keep sake. And he’s looking at me.
He is like, try, try that one more time. And I’m, look, I’m like, Brad, it says keep sake. Like I can’t, like my, I could not change how it looked to my brain. And he said, keepsake. And I’m like, keepsake. Oh, it’s a keeps, I could not read that word any different than like, keep the drink.
Brittany Hodak: I love it.
Lesley Logan: So I, I feel like that would be me reading my own book besides the word profitable, happening too many times the like, I just feel like I would say the wrong.
So now all the time, people who are at my party, they’ll just text me and they’ll go keep sake. Anyways,
Brittany Hodak: So funny, I l it reminds me, somebody told me, uh, actually when I was recording the audiobook, um, I guess this was like something that was viral on TikTok for a minute, but what is f a t spell? …(Lesley: Oh, fat).
Yeah. And h e r? H
h e r, here her. Oh, h e r her? Yeah.
So F a T h E R.
Lesley Logan: Oh, that’s father. But you may like, did someone say fatter?
Brittany Hodak: You got Yeah. Right away. It’s like most people are like, wait, fat, fatter father fat, fat, fat. Yeah. Yeah, so apparently like the way, so I, I, I think keepsake is a great way to say keepsake and I a hundred percent know what you mean because my brain did that a bajillion times recording the audio books.
There were actually parts where I was like, can I just change it? Should I just change it? Like, I dunno if I’m, it’s been 12 tries, I don’t know if we’re gonna get much better than this. So you need to either lower your expectations or I need to like change the content.
Lesley Logan: I, um, I’m one of those people. If I, if I can do it the first time, it’s great, but the moment I’m, they’re like, can you do that one more time?
It’s like, it’s never gonna be as good as that was. So
Brittany Hodak: Right. It’s gonna take, or, and then like, because it’s so many sessions, they’re like, you, like the feedback was always like, oh no, you need to sound a little more enthusiastic. Or like, oh, you’ve gotta be a little bit slower. So every session would start with the engineer playing.
Like from last time. Yeah. And so then you’re like in your head cuz you’re like, oh, how many inches was I from the microphone? And like, which way was my head facing? And like, it is, it is a process. So it’s, if you’re like, which version should I buy? Please consider the audiobook because a lot of time and love went into getting that puppy out in the world.
Lesley Logan: I promise you that’s how Brad has digested it.
Brittany Hodak: Awesome. Thanks Brad. Brad, you’re, you’re the best.
Lesley Logan: Yeah, he is. Yeah. okay. Bold, executable, intrinsic target steps people can take to be until they see it. What do you have for us?
Brittany Hodak: All right, so I am gonna take a different approach here. Have any of your guests ever quoted their children?
This is a first. Okay, well, you may know what’s coming because I put this in the book as well, but I told you I was very, um, delayed in writing my book. I worked on it for a really, really long time before my second son was born. My first son who was almost three. Um, You know, I was like trying to get as much writing before the baby was born as I could.
I was downstairs one day, I was working on the book and my son like kept coming into the room and I kept sort of like reminding him nicely, like, buddy Mommy’s working on her book. You’re supposed to be up, but daddy like go in the bonus room with daddy. Like Mommy has to write. And he looked at me and he said, what’s your book about mom?
And it was the first time he’d shown like any interest at all. And so I kind of took a deep breath and I was like, well, and I was trying to explain, the idea of Creating Superfans in a way that a, you know, almost three year old would, would understand fully expecting him to say like, that’s dumb. You should, you should write about dinosaurs or something like that.
And instead he looked at me, he got really quiet and he said, mom, I think you should tell the people to be nice and listen. And then he gave me a kiss and he ran out of the room and I was like, Mic drop, like, oh my gosh, did my kid just write my book in four words better than I’m gonna do it in like 60,000 words.
So that is what I wanna share with people, because I feel like not only is it applicable for Creating Superfans, it’s applicable for everything in your life. Yeah. Be nice and listen even when it feels hard. Even when you don’t wanna do that. Even when you wanna like, be catty or like cutting or like get that, you know, jab, you know, in.
Um, and even when you like wanna talk and you wanna share like, so be nice and listen. Hmm. Straight from Katoh Hodak.
Lesley Logan: That is, um, that is beautiful and. I, I love that. And I think it’s something we can all do exactly right now in this moment. Wherever you are, you’re probably in driving and someone’s probably trying to cut you off.
Uh, be nice. Let and listen to this.
Brittany Hodak: Take a little longer. Let that, let that tractor trailer turn out in front of you. It’s fine. Be nice.
Lesley Logan: Oh my gosh. I’m so grateful for getting to know you for this book, being like, I mean, I, I. I would hope that I would’ve heard about it. Uh, but having to hear, hear about as soon as it came out, um, it’s changing the way that my team can work with our business and our clients and our customers and and, and how we are even thinking about this podcast.
And so I’m just so grateful for you. I hope that I get to meet you when I come to Nashville. Um, and y’all go get this book. How are you going to use these tips in your life? Brittany and I wanna know. So tag Brittany Hodak, tag the Be It pod, and until next time, Be It Till You See It.
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of the ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.
Yeah, exactly what happened? No rain, sleet, snow, except for Thursdays at two o’clock. Yeah. My dad worked for the post office. Exactly and like, he’s like, what is.
I don’t wanna lose any good stuff o off the recording, but I will say, um, my entire O p C platform is like eighties and nineties, like throwbacks, so like everything. So when you were like doing all these like hip hop song titles for things, I was like, it’s like, it’s like she wrote a print, like a, a creating super fans book for op p c cuz it’s literally like everything we do, all the song titles are like, you know, ba.
Boom. I’m like about to spin around the room here.
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