Everything You Need to

Know About Pelvic Health

Ep. 164 with Lesley & Brad

“It’s less about telling the pelvic floor what to do and more about stimulating it.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

Recapping pilates instructor and pelvic floor specialist, Claire Sparrow, Brad and Lesley breakdown the conversation around your pelvic floor health and how to open up the conversation to all.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • Life on the road & more on Feng Shui
  • What the heck is a pelvic floor anyway?
  • Removing the fear around prolapse
  • Does Pilates help your pelvic floor?
  • Opening up the conversation for all genders

Episode References/Links:

Transcript

Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co hosts in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the flooring convo I have with Claire Sparrow in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that one, feel free to pause this now, go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. And you’re gonna want to listen to it because we there’s no way we could cover all the things that she explained. But y’all if you’ve heard about your pelvic floor, if you’ve been told to strengthen your pelvic floor, if you’ve just been told, oh, you pelvic… it’s okay that weak pelvic floor because you had all these kids like, no. Remember Jessica Valant whole thing that like just because it’s normal doesn’t mean it’s optimal. So go back and listen to Claire, first of all, she has an amazing accent. So it’s really one, wonderful to listen to. What do you think? (Brad: I think so.) Yeah. So anyways, go listen to that one but you can listen to this one now …

Brad Crowell
Well, she you know I mean it’s what is the pelvic floor? I like (Lesley: It’s not a floor …) come from your from the yoga world. And we don’t talk about pelvic floor over there. But I always like I had one teacher years ago talk about the punch bowl of the hips and he talked about keeping it level so that you punch bowls not spilling anything ever. And so that’s what I came from so when I learned this phrase the pelvic floor, I’m just imagining a fucking punch bowl. (Lesley and Brad laughs) I never told Claire that but ….

Lesley Logan
She knows that now. I also just love that she’s like it’s not even a floor like right there is like, why are we calling it that? Because it does make you think that like, you know, I don’t know, it just makes you think you have to like, put a new flooring, and that’s not that’s not it at all. So it’s a diaphragm. Anyways, that’s also an episode. So, um, we are currently clearly sitting next to each other.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, if you’re watching on YouTube, surprise, we decided to change it up a little bit today.

Lesley Logan
We have to do this to other podcast where we’re a couple and so like, the best thing to do was just like be on the same side because they were on their same side. And then Brad left town and then he came back and went to record these recaps before we travel and the mi…

Brad Crowell
Still set up this way. (Lesley: Still set up this way. So …) But it’s kind of cool. You know, it could be it could be good, it’s a little weird that I’m not looking at you.

Lesley Logan
I know. I’m like …

Brad Crowell
I know. We keep looking glancing at each other.

Lesley Logan
It’s weird. Anyways, (Brad: Yeah. We’ll see. We’ll see.) I don’t think we’re sticking with it. Because I have to sit in my chair in a weird way. It’s not, I’m not loving it. Anyways, we’re gonna we’re gonna love it for the moment. (Brad: I’m loving it.) So we are currently if you listening to this in real time, we are somewhere around Delaware at this point in time. We’re in Delaware right now.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, we’re in Delaware right now.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, we’re in Delaware. So that means we have we have hit up Dallas, Houston, Memphis, Nashville, Atlanta, Greensboro, and we are chillin in Delaware, which I think we probably are about to drive into Philly at this point. But yeah, it’s winter tour time. And if you are like, “What this tour is happening? How do I get in on it?” There are two options left. I’m gonna be honest. It says you can join us in Cleveland, St. Louis, St. Louis has sold out. But …

Brad Crowell
Yeah, St. Louis is probably sold out at this point, Cleveland has a few extra spots. (Lesley: It’s sold out so fast.) If there’s a demand for in St. Louis like, we have the potential to add a second class. But you got to tell us that that’s something you’re interested in. (Lesley: Yeah) It’s a reformer class. So you know, just send us a DM.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So I’m it, I love our tours. So much fun. Before the tour, I got to go to one of our stops, right, like a week before. (Brad: Yeah) That, it’s just it’s a lot of fun to get out and see all we love, we love where we live. We love to get out and get to where you are. So that’s a lot of fun. We will be hanging out in Denver for a little lunch sesh. So if you are one of our peeps out in Denver, make sure you reach out to us … so we can let you know.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, cuz we don’t know exactly what time we’ll be rolling through. So we’re gonna get not until we get a little closer.

Lesley Logan
No, it’s a road trip. So we’re, you know, if we can have a detour we can like, go shopping. The dogs need a dog park. So we were some of these things you fly by the seat of your pants. And we just want to say, because while while there might be another episode, no, the next episode that you’ll hear us is after Christmas. So right now and take this moment to say we’re wishing you a very happy holiday. (Brad: Yeah) We hope you’re enjoying your family. (Brad: Yeah, absolutely.) If you don’t enjoy your family, I hope you’re having a great time rocking out with yourself in the family you chose.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, exactly. Or being by yourself. Because (Lesley: Oh my God.) that could be great, too.

Lesley Logan
I did Thanksgiving alone ish. My dad and I went out had dinner or lunch together. And I have to just say this. It was glorious. I slept in. And then I was like, I don’t have I don’t I don’t have anything, I don’t any I can’t do whatever I want. Whatever I want right now, I highly recommend at least a holiday alone. Anyways, okay, we have to talk about Claire. But first, we have an audience question to share.

Brad Crowell
We do. This is really cool. So thank you for actually reaching out here and firing off this question. It was specifically about a previous episode. So if you all heard … (Lesley: 157) Yeah. Episode 157 with Kate Wind. The question was, hey, I’m listening to the latest episode today. Are there any Feng Shui books you would recommend? And we thought, since we’re not the person to answer this question, we should reach out to Kate. So she actually just got back to us. And she said, well, she actually wrote a book. (Lesley: Yeah) And she would absolutely recommend her book. (Lesley: Yeah) So her book is called Vision Board Feng Shui, and it’s an E-WorkBook. And we will have the link for you in the show notes. So (Lesley: Yeah) basically, she said, It’s great for all levels of people who are interested in Feng Shui, it’ll help you understand the concepts and start, you know, working through that in your own life.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, and so you can, so Kate Wind has, she’s on Instagram, and she has her own podcast as well she and her mom do it’s called Mom and Me and Astrology. And I really do get a kick out of their podcast it’s I just love her view on these things. And I also have another listener bold moment was like, I looked up where my door faces and I like looked up what that is and I just love hearing these things from you guys because thank you for listening first of all, that’s amazing. But also the whole goal of bringing these different guests on is to help you make changes and you don’t have to make these big changes like even Kate said it right but even Claire said you don’t have to like go all in it’s an all or nothing. It’s like what can you like just look up you know, someone else looked up their Strength Finders, they did their their their Strength Finders as well. (Brad: Oh, I love that.) Yes. And so so we have to have a whole conversation. (Brad: Share share us your results.) Yeah, so I got a result. We were on a coaching call. She’s an Agency member. (Brad: Okay great. Okay cool.) And then we got to use Kevin Kepple. I don’t remember ihis episode was like 150, 149, 151, (Brad: That’s recent.) that’s recent. And he was saying like the balcony in the basement so we’re able to like look at our strengths and we use Kevin’s references to like talk about like, how we’re her balcony would be and then we’re where the basement and beyond this so she could be on the lookout. So anyways, (Brad: That’s amazing.) you guys, are you allowed to send us any question you want to the @be_it_pod, you can do it on Instagram, you can send to support. I think we’ve emailed [email protected]

Brad Crowell
No, it’s not it’s [email protected]

Lesley Logan
Oh, well, I’ve been telling everyone [email protected] because …

Brad Crowell
We don’t have Gmail. So that definitely is not it. So there’s that. (Lesley: Well…) [email protected]

Lesley Logan
Okay, well, if you if you sent … there. Send it to this new one. I don’t know. I don’t know what I read. Anyways. Okay, let’s talk about Claire Sparrow.

Brad Crowell
Okay, let’s talk about Claire Sparrow, all the way from Leeds in the UK. Claire Sparrow is a Pilates teacher for over two decades, who specializes in working with women experiencing chronic pelvic floor dysfunction, after going through a traumatic birth experience herself. She didn’t want to have surgery. So she healed herself through movement and breathwork instead. And now she actually brings hope to other women who are going through the same issues where there seems to be no answer. And she supports these women in person. She actually has a studio, a Pilates studio in Leeds. And also she has an amazing online program that will help you restore, restore yourself back to normal so that you can live the life that you want to be leading.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. Well, I just I love her. And it was so fun because we ended up that was an in house podcast. (Brad: Yeah, that was super fun.) She was, she was here at the house. She was staying with us. It was a crazy week. We had her and John Steele. And ….

Brad Crowell
We did. It was actually amazing. It was such a fun week.

Lesley Logan
It just felt like what where are the cameras now? Because this is a reality … at this point, like an 87 year old man is like tapping on the window to come in and use the house and like that man happens to be the author of a book and like, you know, was Joseph Pilates like adopted son.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. Amazing. So I’m going to happen here first and talk about the elephant in the room. Okay? What the heck is a pelvic floor anyway? And is a prolapse as terrifying as terrifying as it sounds. (Lesley: So a two elephants?) Two elephants. (Lesley: Okay) Well, because they mentioned prolapse, they mentioned you know, she mentioned prolapse and pelvic floor. So first off the pelvic floor, I’m just going to literally read well, like I listened to the section of the pod like three times, I’m gonna read what my notes on this because I want to make sure I get it right. So the pelvic floor is a set of dynamic muscles, three main muscles that are interwoven, like a French braid, they attached to the back and front of your pelvis, and each of your sitting bones on your butt, on your bottom. So they are meant to expand and lengthen. Three times the resting length. So meaning if the resting length is one foot, they are meant to expand to three feet to up to three feet, when you’re doing normal movement. So imagine when you’re doing a squat, if it’s connected to your pelvis, you know that your butt and you’re squatting, you’re obviously lengthening that. Right. So that’s the idea there. And then Claire use the example of like an elastic band, right, we’ve all used the Thera-Band. She said, it’s not a floor, there’s no floor at all, like, it’s a weird term to call it a floor. She said it’s more of like a diaphragm where it expands and shrinks. And also, she said, it’s a superhighway of nerves, wrapped with those loads of muscles that she was just talking about. So the nerves that go through there are the biggest nerves in your entire body that will run straight through there as well. Which is part of the reason where, where this can be so complicated for women after childbirth, because you know, your body is going through something that’s pretty extreme, and moving things around. And that can pinch things or not pinch things or whatever. And then it messes with your muscles, which are meant to hold all those nerves tightly and safely. And if your muscles get messed up, it can actually affect those nerves. So, nerves, so the nerves, those damn nerves. (Lesley: Your pelvic nerd.) Yeah, those pelvic nerds sounds like a fucking share to me.

Lesley Logan
I just think it’s I think there’s those like those things and kids toys were like they go like, like … if you’re listening to this, you can’t see what I’m doing. But you know, like, there’s those like, those weird toys that like they come together like a little atom, and then they expand apart and they come together and like, thank goodness they do but why? Like, I know the human body makes a lot of sense. And these are muscles. So it’s not organ, organ, but it like it feels like a little organ. Because it’s like so important. And there’s and it and it’s a delicate balance like I mean the whole body is a delicate balance, which is why I love Pilates because nothing gets overworked or underworked. That’s where your your pelvic floor can have the most problems because something can be overworked. And other things can be under worked. And then you you’re out of balance. And that’s where you get some issues. There’s one more elephant you wanted to address.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. So what is a prolapse? Right. I mean, it’s just the the word itself is, I mean, it’s a little scary sounding. And when we, the common misconception is that something has fallen out of you, or dropped and, you know, whatever. There’s, it’s just a very weird, visual and Claire’s is kind of on a mission to change the way we talk about that. And she said, it’s actually just moved or displaced, meaning, like so so your, if your muscles are not in a, they’re not strong enough to hold those nerves and protect those nerves, those same muscles are also holding your organs into place. Right? So if your muscles are weak, then they can’t do that they can’t operate in that fashion. And that would that means that your organs have the potential to slide around to somewhere where they’re not supposed to be? Because the muscles aren’t strong enough to hold them in place. That is a prolapse. Okay, so she actually specifically used the uterus as an organ that has has the potential to move. You know, if you have a, you know, if you’re dealing with pelvic floor stuff, and that’s actually what happened to her. And so she talked about that. And then, so anyway, I think that it’s really important to just like, get rid of this, like, terrifying concept of what a prolapse is. Yes, it’s definitely (Lesley: You don’t want it to happen.) You don’t want it to happen. I’m not saying it’s not a big deal. But it’s also not like, you’re not like, you know, your organ is not dropping out of your body. Yeah, that’s not what’s happening here. So

Lesley Logan
It’s not it’s not … to never be back to never be back in place again, like it’s there are options. So, which I think is like, nice and helpful. Okay, I’m gonna jump in.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, having covered those, I thought about that as like the elephant in the room, because I think it’s important to dispel any preconceived notions. Such as the punch bowl analogy I put at the beginning, you know, or whatever the hell else it is that that has gone through, you know, any of our heads here, because when we can all talk about the same thing, then we can have a better, more educated conversation about it.

Lesley Logan
Well, I think it’s so that you can, if you are going through something and like you feel something is out of place. And I mean, I’ve had friends who’ve definitely felt down there and sometimes not been right. Having a better understanding scientifically around what you’re going through is going to allow you to have a conversation with your doctor or your provider, in a way that makes you feel seen, and, and that you understand what’s going on. And this is something that’s very important. If you just go if it doesn’t feel right, the doctor doesn’t know how to handle that. But if you can actually like it, through listening to these experts that we bring in, if it allows you to advocate for yourself, and we have, we have an advocate coming, do we that’s coming out next …

Brad Crowell
Yeah, couple couple more episodes, we have a health advocate on as a guest.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So she talks about like, having this information so that when you talk to your provider, you can actually have specifics to talk to them about, it’s going to allow you to have a stronger conversation with them and get the help that you need. So you don’t have to be afraid of these things. And you can actually understand what they’re saying, they can understand what you’re saying, you can get the help faster. Okay, my thing. Of course, I loved that she talked to help answer the question, “Will Pilates help strengthen your pelvic floor?” And this is where we like chatted a little bit about the all teachers are the same, like for example, I’m not don’t count me for your pelvic floor, clearly, but also like that’s, yes, the Pilates that I teach could help that. But if you are in an acute situation where you do need to balance your pelvic floor out, then I want you to seek out a teacher who has actually been trained in this way, you can actually reach out to Claire because she has teachers that she’s trained. She also has a course for this for this. She has classes to help you out with that. And I love that she also talked about like it’s it’s less about telling the pelvic floor what to do and more about stimulating it and that’s where she got into the thing about the key goals. Oh my gosh, I had so many clients … I’m doing my key goals at the stoplight and I’m like, okay, there’s some other things down there. We got to do. We don’t want to just like overdo it with those things, and that’s, that obviously can cause the issues that Brad talked about in his talking points from her. But she, she mentioned that we can do more about stimulating the pelvic floor properly. So we can teach it how to move on its own without us thinking about it. And that’s like, that’s where Pilates really can come into place, especially if you have a teacher who knows how to incorporate Pilates and the pelvic floor. And here’s why I don’t think about my posture. I do enough Pilates that my body thinks about my posture for me, your body is actually when it’s imbalanced. When you actually balance all the muscles, your body knows how to walk, sit, sneeze, breathe, all things without you going. Did I think about that? Did I think about inhaling that way, you know what I mean? So like, if you are, for example, trying to work on breathing through your nose more, it means you think about it a while. But hopefully over time, the goal is that your body will do it on its own. So I really loved that she talked about stimulating the pelvic floor properly. So we can teach it how to move. It’s just a little bit of retraining, right? Because who knows how long you’ve been doing it the other way? So anyways, I love she’s just I mean, I felt like I went to I felt like I did a three hour course in like 45 minutes.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, I mean, I think she talked about the difference between kegals and like, what, how the concept that Dr. Kegel came up with with Kegel exercises, and using Kegel devices, how Pilates can help stimulate similarly. So I think that’s pretty amazing. That Pilates can do that.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, I know. I think it’s I mean, it’s all impressive. So yes, if you’re coming to a Pilates for your pelvic floor, absolutely do that. But definitely make sure that the teacher you’re with has done some training in it. Because, you know, we all like Pilates can also help with Parkinson’s, Pilates can also help with a lot of knee surgeries. But when you start to get nuanced like that, you’re gonna want to find someone who’s gone down a path to get more training in that.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, definitely. All right, let’s talk about those BE IT action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your conversation with Claire Sparrow? I’m gonna, I’m gonna throw out the first one here. And really, truly it’s talk about it. Open up conversations about pelvic floor, I know that it can be embarrassing. I don’t personally know that. But I know that people are embarrassed about what happens. You know what’s happening with their body. And it’s it can become an awkward conversation. But it shouldn’t be. It doesn’t have to be.

Lesley Logan
And also we talked about it hasn’t come up in this episode we did. So that’s why you have to listen to Claire’s actual interview, we talked about can do men have one? And can they have issues? (Brad: Yes.) She actually said yes. And these are the signs of it. And you know, I’m not going to name names, but you had some men in your life who went through a certain situation down there, and became like a cancer situation. And because of that, you were like, “Huh, how am I doing? Let me go get that checked out.” And so it’s like, the more we talk about (Brad: Right) anything going on with our health, the more likely we can actually save more people from going down the wrong path for a long time.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, I think that pelvic floor issues are becoming even more common, because people are sitting more and more with their desk jobs. And then also, Claire specifically called out truck drivers, because they’re sitting for, you know, 8 10 12 hours at a shot while they’re moving the the trucks around. And …

Lesley Logan
Well, our yoga teacher said it like chairs and shoes are the worst inventions. But like, you notice, I think it’s also a more common because people are also talking about it, like I think …

Brad Crowell
Right? Like it’s actually just awareness.

Lesley Logan
Just awareness. (Brad: Yeah) So keep the awareness going. Make sure you talk about it to the men and women and, and, and everyone.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, and I’m gonna I’m just gonna jump around here because this isn’t, wasn’t on our timeline. But there was there was something very specific that I wanted to mention. If you’ve been told, you just have a weak pelvic floor, or you’ve had three children, this is normal. Oh, this is because of your age. And there’s nothing that can be done. That’s not the case.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, I think we, I mean, we’ve said it in many episodes, but seriously, just just because a lot of people went through that doesn’t mean you have to live with that. You know, just because it’s normal doesn’t mean it’s optimal. Like that is, Thank you Jessica for that phrase, right there. My be it … My BE IT action item is, could we just let it go. So like … about like, the fear, fear you gotta let that go. Because that’s not helping you. In fact, that might even be causing more problems because when we’re in fear, we sort of tense muscles and things like that and create more of a mo…

Brad Crowell
It can mess with your sleep, your stress, your digestion.

Lesley Logan
Which is not going to help any of the things.

Brad Crowell
Any of the things.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So let the fear go. You know, do what we, you’ll hear it in and Lindsay’s episode in a few weeks about like what you can do to make sure you are prepared to advocate for yourself in this situation. (Brad: Yeah) And that’s going to take some of that fear away. And it’s going to let you get the help that you need. She also meant to let, we’re oftentimes pulling things in all the time. So we’ve talked about this before it was what episode but like, you shouldn’t even be pulling your abs in all the time, like a Pilates instructor is often do this, because they’re keeping their abs and they’re teaching people their abs and your abdominals should be able to go in and out just like your diaphragm goes in and out just like your pelvic floor should not be in a tense mode all the time, it’s only going to create more problems, just so you know that the app thing you will come become constipated. It’s called hypertension, just (Brad: Yeah, I mean …) jor no hype…

Brad Crowell
I don’t know what it’s called. But if you keep you know, basically, when you’re tensing all those muscles all the time, you’re not allowing the bones to move, the muscles to move or anything. And that’s supposed to be happening down there. So she specifically, Claire specifically said, your pubic bone has to move. And you can’t, you know, you’re not allowing it moves when you breathe. And if you’re tense when you’re breathing, you’re not actually allowing anything to move at all. (Lesley: Yeah) And that’s actually not benefiting you.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So obviously, when you’re doing Pilates, you have a special special way of breathing. So do that. But then in life, she mentioned like getting that breath all the way down to the pubic bone. And I was like, trying to do that I was like, and I was, I was like, visualizing, I’m like, I think it’s like just just above it. I’m not getting all the way there. So, so I got to work on that. But all these was just, it was just so I’m so glad to finally have her on the pod. She’s not only she’s so passionate about that, but she’s truly changing people’s lives with this. And the more teacher she’s able to teach this to and the more people she’s able to teach this to, her course is so thorough, it’s so beneficial, the better we all will be.

Brad Crowell
I mean, I was just floored by her interview. So

Lesley Logan
Yeah, just by her interview, you’re floored.

Brad Crowell
I was floored.

Lesley Logan
Oh, I got it.

Brad Crowell
You got it. Okay. Thanks.

Lesley Logan
I got it.

Listen, if you take away nothing else from this interview, notice there’s hope to get back to a normal life and pelvic floor issues don’t have to stop you from living and doing the things you want to do. We talked about this in our interview, I not just pelvic floor issues, but I really do see that a lot of people’s health issues, keep them from moving their life forward. (Brad: Yeah, sure.) And it doesn’t have to be that way. But especially, especially this, like, we taught, like so many people are not doing things with their children or not (Brad: Yeah) saying yes to things because of, of what’s going on down there. And it’s like, there’s hope for you. So

Brad Crowell
And menopause does affect this, this region. So if you are going into menopause, and you have not addressed the pelvic floor issues you may have that can actually make things worse. So it’s important to be aware of this kind of stuff sooner than later. But there’s, there’s still, you can still do things about it. In fact, Claire talked about one of her students that had pelvic floor issues, unaddressed pelvic floor issues for more than three decades, and is now addressing them and is now living a far more normal and enjoyable life than she has been for decades. So you know, there’s, that’s exciting to hear. I think that’s amazing. I think it’s incredible.

I just wanted to say. So basically, Claire has this awesome course. Right? In our show notes, we’re going to, we’ve got a link down there specifically for you to go click through and see, you know, her course and what it could offer, she’s got two versions of it. One is for teachers like Pilates teachers or fitness teachers who obviously will probably have an understanding of anatomy and stuff like that. She has another version of the course for people who are not teachers. So if this if you’re like, I don’t really understand the biology so much, maybe there’s a version that’s not for the teachers is going to be perfect for you. So click that link specifically because it’ll let you, let her know that we sent you. And, you know, honestly, if you have an incredible experience with Claire, let us know. Because we love her. We already know she’s amazing. We are incredibly confident that you will love her too. And, you know, hopefully she can help you through this delicate time. So,

Lesley Logan
All right. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell
And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you going to use these in your life? We want to know and we have to just say again, we’re so grateful for you, for each one of you. For those of you who tell us is how each episode affected you in your life and also for sharing it with your friends and family. It is truly meaningful to us and it’s actually what helps us get this podcast out to get more people. So thank you for doing that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell
Bye for now

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Mesh Herico for creating all of our visuals, (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all the video each week, so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each episode, so you can find it on our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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