A Brand Without a


Ep. 58 with Lesley & Brad

“If you don’t define success, it will be defined for you.”

Brad Crowell

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Show Notes

What is a brand without a business? How can you read a book without ever opening the front page? Today LL and Brad discuss their celebrations from 2021, various aspects of branding, and how success has to be defined by you.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at beit@lesleylogan.co. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • The celebrations of 2021
  • Reframing your mindset to accomplish a Ta-Da
  • Branding even without a business
  • The emotional side of branding

    Episode References/Links:


    Lesley Logan
    Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


    Lesley Logan 0:42
    (Brad laughs) Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the deliberate convo I had with Hilary Hartling in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that episode, that interview, go back, listen to it. It’s friggin’ cool and you’ll see why we said it’s deliberate. And you can pause and then come back to this one when you’re ready or listen to this one decide if you want to listen to a deliberate conversation it’s up to you.

    Brad Crowell 1:11
    I, I kind of want to explain, why deliberate? (Lesley: Yeah. Go ahead.) I … because she was very deliberate in planning where she was going to end up, while a student in college. And I thought, I thought it was pretty amazing that as a college student, she was like, “I’m going to work in the movies.” And so she plastered her college dorm with all these movie posters. So she was consistently, she was deliberately keeping that in front of her (Lesley: Yeah) during her time at school. I think it’s so impressive because, you know, the only thing that I knew is that I just wanted to be awesome. You know, at music, I didn’t actually know what that meant. So the fact that she even understood what she wanted to go do. I just thought it was incredibly deliberate of her. (Brad and Lesley laughs)

    Lesley Logan 2:04
    Well, I think people might think that that’s an interesting word choice. And I think that it’s okay to be deliberate. It’s also okay to have just been like, “I just want to leave.” Like, I deliberately went off to a very expensive of college because I wanted to get the fuck out of town.

    Brad Crowell 2:19
    A very what college? (Lesley: It was a very expensive college) Expensive college. Okay, okay.

    Lesley Logan 2:23
    Yeah. I was, I just want to get out. I was like, “They’ll accept me. I’m out of here.” And that was the only deliberate choice I made in my teenage years. (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 2:31

    Lesley Logan 2:31
    So anyways, okay.

    Brad Crowell 2:33
    All right, before we get started.

    Lesley Logan 2:34
    Um, we are on the road right now. So we are, we’ll be honest, all these episodes for the next few weeks are pre-recorded before on the road. So, I’m going to manifest that we’re having a great freakin’ time getting ready for our tour.

    Brad Crowell 2:48
    Oh, I know we are. We just had amazing dinner last night. (Lesley: Yeah …) In fact, I slept so well. And I was really, really warm. (Lesley: Yeah) (Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 2:54
    I think we’re still on the road, actually. So, I don’t know if your warm or not. (Brad laughs) But we are going to have, we have our tour going on. So you can check out the tour dates at onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour. We’ll be in the Philly area on the 19th. And then we’ve got Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, that kind of stuff. So join us if you can.

    Brad Crowell 3:12
    Yeah, it’s gonna be so much fun. We’ve been really looking forward to seeing you. So if you are at all close to us on those dates, where we are going to be hosting a class, come hang out. (Lesley: Come) You know, it’s just going to be awesome. (Lesley: Yeah) Looking forward to it.

    Lesley Logan 3:27
    Yeah. And then we have some exciting waitlist. We want you to get on these are for (Brad: Yes) our business listeners, our fitness business peeps, we are actually going to be releasing a scheduling tool. (Brad: Whaat?) Whaat? I know Brad, where do they go to get on the list to hear about it when it’s actually ready in the new year?

    Brad Crowell 3:45
    Yeah, I don’t have any idea. But ah (Lesley laughs) we gonna tell you right now. Just go to profitablepilates.com/scheduling. (Brad laughs) I will make that link go to wherever it needs to go so that you can be on the waitlist. (Lesley: Yeah) I’m pretty sure Meridith gave you a tool, of a link …

    Lesley Logan 4:03
    She gives me a link it’s really long and it doesn’t have a short little situation you just gave. So, I like that one.

    Brad Crowell 4:09
    Okay, so let’s call it, let’s call it, you know what? Yeah, I think that’s the best way. So (Lesley: Yeah. Let’s call it that) profitablepilates.com/scheduling. (Lesley: Yup) Go there. It will redirect you to the waitlist. This is something that we are going to be formally introducing in January.

    Lesley Logan 4:29
    Yeah. Yeah. And so we’ll bring it. Well, we’re excited about it. We’ll tell you more later. And lastly, one more waitlist that we want you to load up yourself up on because it is a space is limited situation. We only do it twice a year Agency Mini. You’ll go to profitablepilates.com/mini. (Brad: Yup) That’s M, I, N, and I – and you’ll get on that waitlist. We will open up the doors, probably right at the end of the year slash early beginning of the year. (Brad: Yeah. Yeah) And you do… you want to be on the waitlist because you hear about the special price before anyone else does. (Brad: Yeah) Okay. All right. Now back to the show. (Brad: Yeah) What our, what’s our question from the, for the week?

    Brad Crowell 5:05
    We had an audience question, which I thought which made me actually think, I think period. I liked the question is, “What are you celebrating from 2021?”

    Lesley Logan 5:19
    Yeah. And we actually, you know, you said, “What are we celebrating?” And it’s like, well, we just did this amazing reflections with Kareen Walsh. (Brad: We did) They are retrospective. And if you don’t, y’all Kareen was on the show. She’s in the teens, I want to say, and you can go back and listen to her inspiring self. She’s got just amazing tools. But one of the things that I wrote down, um that I was celebrating from this year when we did the retrospective was that I have seamingly learned really well how to offload things off my plate. And I’m only, I’m really, I’m really only doing the things I love to do in my business. (Lesley laughs) And I’m celebrating this podcast, because I’ve been wanting to do this for a really long time. And this was a whole year in the making thing, because it took us to the beginning of the year to get it launched. And now we’re doing it all the time.

    Brad Crowell 6:05
    After talking about it for multiple years. (Lesley: Yeah) But Kareen’s episode was 27. (Lesley: Thank you) So, if you’re (Lesley: Oh) interested, go back to episode 27 … (Lesley: Not the teens at all. Definitely the twenties) (Lesley laughs) She, I mean, she’s a rock star. She is incredibly higher level thinking, like bigger picture, thinking, type of person. (Lesley: Yeah) So love her, love her. But yeah, so …

    Lesley Logan 6:27
    And then, I’m still celebrating. (Brad: Oh, please.) Okay. So, (Lesley laughs) I’m also celebrating that we got the decks out. And they were going and we have like the flashcards, the mat and reformer and we’ve sold over 1000 all over the world, which is insane to me. And then I’m also celebrating that I have lots of friends in Vegas. So, I can like call a friends and I have their cell phone numbers. And I, we go out and (Brad: Yeah) that is really fun because we moved here during a pandemic. And you know, we didn’t really leave our house for the first 11 months. And … (Lesley laughs)

    Brad Crowell 7:02
    Yeah. Literally, like the friends that we had for the first year we were here, were our immediate neighbors. (Lesley: Yeah) Because we saw them taking out the trash. And we’re like, “Hi, who are you?” (Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 7:12
    Yeah, so I’ve only had like we’ve only had like six months to make friends. And I really feel like as an adult, that’s not easy to do. So I’m, I mean, if it sounds cheesy or childish, like, let me just say “friends are important.” And lastly, I’m also celebrating that I use our back… I use every room in this house. I always use all of them. (Brad: She does) But I, specifically love that I get to use our amazing backyard is beautiful. Okay, (Brad: Yeah) you’re turn… I mean, there, I can keep going because my retrospective list was long, but I’ll stop there.

    Brad Crowell 7:39
    Well, I set a goal for myself at the beginning of this year. And that was to take my weekends back. I didn’t do that. (Lesley laughs) But what I did do and what I, why I’m celebrating is because many years ago, I worked at another company that had a large team, it was like 80 plus people on the team. And I thought it was really amazing that there were experts at different things all throughout the company. And I saw the value in that. And I thought, “Someday I’m going to lead my own team, and it’s going to allow me to delegate up the appropriate tasks to the appropriate people.” And so what has been incredible is in the past, you know, year and a half since we started, you know, since, you know, we stopped traveling, actually, and started building out our team. It’s been amazing to see that we’ve been able to bring in people who are experts at what they do in different tasks. And now we have that that team you know, supporting this, I mean, this podcast, eight people work on this podcast.

    Lesley Logan 9:05
    Is it still eight or is it nine now?

    Brad Crowell 9:08
    Nine, it’s nine (Lesley: nine) we (Lesley: Yeah) just added our associate producer, Amanda. So, nine people touch every single episode now on this pod, which is amazing, you (Lesley: Yeah) know, but because we, because of the way we work things out, they can stay in their wheelhouse and do the things that they do best. And it’s been a lot of fun for me to see that actually come to fruition. (Lesley: Yeah) Also, I think on a personal note, I had effectively stopped reading books for you know, ever until maybe a year ago. Two years ago I started reading, I guess that’s not true. The books things started in the (Lesley: You started doing that with Eddie) last three or four years. (Lesley: Yeah, but you’ve read more lately) I’ve been reading intentionally. I’ve been reading a lot of books. I don’t actually open a book, I listened to them on audio. But, you know, I’ve been in in the past two years, I’ve read more books than I’ve read in the past 10.

    Lesley Logan 10:12
    I’m just gonna say, that’s quotable, “I don’t actually open a book.”

    Brad Crowell 10:15
    I don’t actually open a book.

    Lesley Logan 10:15
    I just put the book to my forehead. And it was like …

    Brad Crowell 10:17
    I put it under my pillow. (Lesley laughs) And then like, “It’s incredible how that works?” (Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 10:21
    Yeah. Well, I think it’s you have been intentionally reading and like reading books that are like are supporting the person you want to be. And that’s really, really awesome. And that has that takes intentional, that has to be deliberate.

    Brad Crowell 10:34
    And there’s one more thing (Lesley: Okay) that I wanted to celebrate. And that is that I have been getting coaching. (Lesley: Oh, yeah) Just for me, just Brad, Brad coaching only. And it has been incredibly beneficial for my mindset on how I view myself, how I view our team, how I what my expectations are, how my communication, you know, should be with everyone. And that has been, I felt like I’ve been growing which is weird to say, you know, but I actually feel more confident, I feel like a better leader. And, I’m excited about being in a position where I’m being coached by someone who has, you know, been around this a lot more than me. So, yeah, that’s what we’re celebrating for 2021.

    Lesley Logan 11:26
    Okay, (Brad: Yeah) well, what a great year. Okay, well, shall we go into the deliberate conversation?

    Brad Crowell 11:33
    I think we shall.

    Lesley Logan 11:34
    Okay, let’s do it.

    Brad Crowell 11:35
    Yeah. Okay. Let’s talk about Hilary Hartling. From a former Disney movie marketing executive to a brand and messaging strategist for entrepreneurs – Hilary Hartling helps entrepreneurs infuse meaning into their brands. She is an incredible thought leader, business woman, new mom of Ruby, and master of using Ta-Da lists for success.

    Lesley Logan 11:35
    So that’s perfect timing because (Brad laughs) that’s one of the things I love that she said. She takes her To-Dos and turns them into Ta-Das. And because she work to Disney, all I think is like fairy godmother, like, (Brad: ting) “ti-ting.” (Brad: Yeah, yeah) Like, every time, right? So um, why I love this is I think we all like load up our To-Do lists, and we focus on what didn’t get done. And really like, the way the brain works is, you know, it (Dog barks) likes things that feel really good. When you focus on what you actually did get done. And you celebrate that, it actually makes you want to show up to your To-Do list more. So, I think it’s really fun to go Ta-Da and I’ve been really working on that and like, enjoying what I got done. Alright, so I just, I find her, I find that like a very sweet little way to change something. And sometimes reframing it makes things more possible.

    Brad Crowell 12:51
    I also think it just shows off how talented she is because it’s so obvious, but I didn’t think of it.

    Lesley Logan 12:58
    I know. (Brad laughs) I know. I know. That’s like she definitely is like a marketing expert. I, that’s not my role. But anyways, what did you love that (Brad laughs) she said?

    Brad Crowell 13:08
    Well, you know, I thought that right out of the gate she opened up with, “you are a brand, even without a business.” (Lesley: Yeah) And that’s so, I think that’s really powerful to think about that because you’re a brand as a mom, (Lesley: Yeah) you’re brand as a dad, you’re a brand as a you know, a little league soccer coach, you know. (Lesley: Yeah) There’s so many, the way that we’re perceived that is branding, (Lesley: Mm-hmm) right? And that’s a weird thing to think about. But you know, the car that you drive, the watch that you wear, or not, the (Lesley: Yeah) way, the way you carry your keys, you know, are they clipped to your belt loop? Or are they like in your pocket? Like, like, there’s so many things that like, that set you up for a the, to be perceived by others? And, you know, like that could be, you know, when if you’re out dating, that’s branding like. (Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 14:09
    Yeah. Well, exactly. And also like, um, and it I think, for a lot of people who maybe have an idea, that’s something that they want to create, or do, but they’re like, “Oh, I’m not a business person and I don’t know this. And then like, what are people gonna say?” It’s like, if you just take all the best parts of you, (Brad: Yeah) your value system, especially, and your reason for doing that thing, and you just put that in place of with a business title over it, “Boom. That’s it.” Like that’s how companies get a brand and then you just actually, the consistency of the action you take, that supports those things is what makes people go, “Oh, it’s branded.”

    Brad Crowell 14:45
    And she said something that I thought was also incredible. She said, “the, the way that you leave people feeling (Lesley: Mm-hmm) that’s your branding.” (Lesley: Yeah) And and that was something that I, that the emotional side of it is never something I really thought about. I always thought of branding as like, “My colors and my logo.” And that’s pretty much it.

    Lesley Logan 15:10
    Yeah. That’s what everyone thinks, but it’s not that at all. It is the way you leave people feeling.

    Brad Crowell 15:14
    But that’s why also why you don’t even have to have a business to have a brand. (Lesley: Yeah) You know, because if you are like think think about the, think about the neighborhood mom who picks up all the kids from school and drops them off and makes sure that they’re safe, right? That’s her brand. She clearly is passionate about that. And, you know, or, you know, or think about the angry neighbor who yells at the, you know, the kid who throws a ball at his yard, you know, that’s also branding. It’s not cool branding, but it’s still branding, right? So the way you leave people feeling and I thought that was really amazing that (Lesley: Yeah) you know, to take to take away this like preconception that we have (Lesley: Yeah) that you have to have a business, to have a brand.

    Lesley Logan 15:16
    You have to go get your logo. Go (Brad: Right) get it.

    Brad Crowell 15:36
    Yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) nothing to do with it.

    Lesley Logan 15:56
    Yeah, so those I agree …

    Brad Crowell 16:04
    I guess not nothing. Minimal to do with it. It’s still important, of course, in the long run, but like because you want people to see that and then associate that emotion with that visual. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? Or those colors …

    Lesley Logan 16:16
    But that takes time. That takes multiple times of you leaving that person with that feeling (Brad: Yeah) with that thing. So you can that’s, you know, (Brad: Yeah) yeah. Okay, that’s good. I love it.

    Brad Crowell 16:26
    So, listeners feel happy, okay. You better feel happy. (Lesley: feel happy) Feel happy right now? (Lesley: Oh, my God. I don’t know. Is that how we leave people feeling?) (Brad and Lesley laughs) No, that’s not that. (Lesley: I don’t think so.) I was being, (Lesley: I hope, I hope …) I was being “sardonic,” sar… All of all of the dark, negative, (Lesley: Ah) hilarious joke. (Lesley: I never heard that word) Yeah, it was commanding them to feel happy that doesn’t work. Okay. But anyway, it was fake branding. (Lesley: Yeah, fake branding) Y’all, next moving on.

    Lesley Logan 16:50
    Moving on. (Brad laughs) Here we go.

    Brad Crowell 16:54
    All right. Finally, let’s talk about the BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Hillary Hartling? I, I’m going to jump in first. She said that we should redefine success. (Lesley: Yeah) And I thought another thing that made me actually think back through me and how I’ve defined success. She said she’s changed her success definition so that it effectively includes what makes her feel good. (Lesley: Yeah) And I started laughing about that, because I’ve, I’ve told this story on the pod before, but I decided I was no longer going to work with assholes. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? And that if you haven’t heard that story, I don’t remember when I told it. But …

    Lesley Logan 17:45
    I don’t know but I feel like you haven’t worked with assholes. And so you should feel really successful right now.

    Brad Crowell 17:49
    Right? So that’s exactly what I was saying is, it makes… makes you feel good. You know, Hilary (Lesley: You should put …) worked in a super high stress environment. And now she doesn’t want to feel stressed out. She wants to feel good.

    Lesley Logan 18:01
    You should have put that in your celebration. “Celebrations for 2021. No longer working with assholes.”

    Brad Crowell 18:07
    Yeah, (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. That’s a huge, (Lesley: Yeah) win to celebrate. (Lesley: Big win. Yeah) Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) I love that, actually.

    Lesley Logan 18:15
    Yeah. Put it on your, put it on your you know, put it on your thing. Um, I …

    Brad Crowell 18:19
    Put in my wins board.

    Lesley Logan 18:20
    Yeah. Put it on your wins board. Put it in the channel for the group, “Hey, everyone congratulations, if you’re working here, you are not an asshole.” (Brad and Lesley laughs) Well, I agree. I think we’ve had, I think it’s we’ve heard before to redefine success. To what it means for you. (Brad: Yeah) But like, you really do. Like it is like not just a Hallmark card. It’s like such an important thing because it will eat you alive. And I think it actually goes into my BE IT action items …

    Brad Crowell 18:48
    Oh, before you jump into that, though, I think that if you don’t define success, (Lesley: Someone will define it for you.) It will be defined for you. And most often, it will be the Keeping Up with the Joneses idea. (Lesley: Yeah) What is a success? Oh, well, it’s what my neighbor has.” (Lesley: Yeah) You know, it’s not what I’m not satisfied because it becomes you know, it’s funny competition. This, this, it puts us in a position not to feel good. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? And so I think it’s very important if you have not yet defined success. Start thinking about this, start like make it an actual put that on your list of things you should do. (Lesley: That’s your BE IT action item.) That’s the BE IT action item.

    Lesley Logan 19:31
    Yeah, what a great thing to (Brad: Define find success for you.) percolate on. Okay, now I’m going to (Brad: Do it. Take it) really does go (Brad: Yeah) into my thing, because thanks for talking about looking at your neighbor’s lawn. (Brad: Oh) Stop comparing your journey. (Brad laughs) Um, you all here’s the thing about social media, like it is, we all know that it’s the best of everything, right? It’s the cream of the crop of people’s posts. And yet somehow we still compare ourselves even though we know that they are intentionally not putting up the stuff that makes it look like they’re having a bad day. (Brad: Yeah) I am guilty as charged. I’m not gonna put up there that I’m having a bad day. Why? That’s …

    Brad Crowell 20:07
    … okay. Every once in a while you do. (Lesley: I mean once in awhile). But it’s not, ya know.

    Lesley Logan 20:10
    I’m honest. But I also have, also gotten over whatever that bad news is because I actually don’t, I don’t do it for attention or for help. I do it to be like, “Hey, look, I have a bad day too.” But here’s the deal. You have to understand that like, if you started, like, I started teaching Pilates in 2008. If I like, I remember the point of being jealous of my mentor, because she started when she was like, 19. And I was like, “Oh, my God, she’s, she’s further along than me. And I want to be with her. I want to …” I like I like, had jealousy over how long she’d been teaching and somehow wanted to try to be where she was in that exact moment, which is like 20 years ahead of me, and not possible, (Brad: Clearly impossible) clearly impossible. But thankfully, I snapped out of that BS because you, you can’t, you can’t compare other people’s positions and journeys, even if you’re doing the exact same thing. Or even if you wanted the exact same thing, even if you start the exact same time, everyone has a different filter for which, like different tools, sets, and strengths. So blinders on, be inspired but go back to your definition of success. And keep going.

    Brad Crowell 21:16
    Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. I mean, I… you made me think about me in college, studying music, and wishing that I was, you know, a rock star. And I totally felt fear and jealousy about some of my classmates who were only like two years older than me. Sorry, they had, I was late getting to my college. I was, I had gone to other colleges before. So I didn’t get to my college til I was 22, 21, sorry. And so all my classmates were younger. And there were people who had graduated, who were effectively my age, or maybe one year older. And there was this one band that was getting huge notoriety. And they were younger than me. And I thought, “Did I already miss the boat?” (Lesley: Oh, yeah) You know, like, “Am I too late?” Like, “Can I be, by the time I finish here, I’m going to be 24.” You know, then I’m going to have to start my career effectively, is the way that I was viewing it. Like maybe it’s gonna take me, you know, a couple more years, is it you know, “Am I gonna be able to do it at 25 to 30?” And, you know, but really, I was comparing myself in a (Lesley: Yeah) way that’s ridiculous. You know, of course, you know, you can be older than 22 and being you know, like, (Lesley: Oh, my gosh) getting a variety.

    Lesley Logan 22:36
    I mean, people are like, getting famous at 75. Like, there’s (Brad: Yeah) just like … and also fame doesn’t mean success by the way, it just like maybe that’s … that’s what you’re wanting.

    Brad Crowell 22:45
    I didn’t want the fame. I wanted my band to be listened to which (Lesley: Yeah) comes like it’s part and parcel to fame, but I didn’t feel like I wanted to be famous. I (Lesley: Yeah) wanted, I wanted like, I actually want the money without the notoriety. (Brad laughs) (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) You (Lesley: Yeah) know, that’s what that would be the perfect storm.

    Lesley Logan 23:01
    I know. That’s my, my big thing is I want people to be like, “Who is this girl? She like walks into places.” And be like, “I know.” (Brad and Lesley laughs) I just like want them to like, “What? Who is she?”

    Brad Crowell 23:11
    Who is she? She’s famous in Poland. (Lesley and Brad laughs)

    Lesley Logan 23:16
    Well, I’m Lesley Logan.

    Brad Crowell 23:18
    And I’m Brad Crowell.

    Lesley Logan 23:19
    Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so freakin’ grateful for you. Thank you for being part of the first like year of the pod because I can’t believe we only have one more week left until 2021 for the Be It pod. You are amazing. DM us and tell us how you’re gonna use these tips in your life. (Brad: Yeah) And do us a huge freakin’ favor like please, please feel free to actually share this show over the holidays when you’re seeing family members when (Brad: Yeah) you listen to it. Because that really is how the show gets out there. So it’s totally fine to be like, “This, this is the show, go listen to it.” And then we’ll catch you in the next episode.

    Brad Crowell 23:52
    Looking forward to it.

    Lesley Logan
    That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

    Lesley Logan
    ‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

    Brad Crowell
    It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

    Lesley Logan
    Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

    Brad Crowell
    Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

    Lesley Logan
    Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

    Brad Crowell
    And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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