Supporting Through Grief

Ep. 236 with Lesley & Brad

“We need to not commiserate with them because they actually are going to feel like they have to take care of your emotions.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

In this candid episode, Lesley and Brad unpack the power of empathy for those dealing with grief. Drawing on Krista St-Germain’s wisdom, they share insights and advice for support in challenging times. It’s a deep dive into understanding and navigating the healing journey.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • In this candid episode, Lesley and Brad unpack the power of empathy for those dealing with grief. Drawing on Krista St-Germain’s wisdom, they share insights and advice for support in challenging times. It’s a deep dive into understanding and navigating the healing journey.

Episode References/Links:


Brad Crowell: I think the natural inclination is to commiserate. But we might not actually be able to understand what they’re going through, because we may not have experienced something like that. And then we come up with something that like, I don’t know, maybe we heard it at church or whatever. And that’s, you know, it sounds like it could be helpful, but actually, it’s minimizing what they’re going through.


Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan 2:20
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the life altering convo I had with Krista St. Germain in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now. Go back and listen to that one. And then come back and join us, going to be honest, grab your Kleenex called your tissue. It was a shout out to Bel. I did not actually give the team any forewarning on the episode.

Brad Crowell 2:46
I know, Bel and Kevin produce our show.

Lesley Logan 2:50
I know. It’s, I don’t want to give too much away. But this is an episode on grief. And yeah. And so, you know, what I’m so grateful of as soon as we did this, as soon as we, I did this interview with Krista. I really made a point to be more conscious of how I handled people who were grieving. And in a way, not that I wasn’t making conscious choices before, but I would always be aware of like, how I didn’t know what to say, and I didn’t want to fuck it up.

Brad Crowell 3:20
Well, I mean, the thing you can’t see right up to the interviewer and you were like, don’t ask, you know, don’t say like, anything I can do to help, just tell me, don’t just do stuff. And I was like, I don’t really understand what we’re talking about here.

Lesley Logan 3:36
Don’t say that anymore. Don’t just say I’ll do whatever you need. Just let me know if you need anything.

Brad Crowell 3:43
Let me know if you need anything. And I was like, Okay.

Lesley Logan 3:46
Well what happened was literally the day after I did this interview, one of our Agency members lost their father. And then that set the week before one of our agency members niece had a shocking, like a very not expected passing. And I was like okay, everyone suggested resources Krista St. Germain’s entire podcast and catalog. This is not a place where we do grief, this is a business coaching group but clearly when people grieving we’re not going to apologize. We’re not going to say we’re here if you need anything, they need a lot of shit, they don’t have time to tell you.

All right before we get started today is international rock day? Yeah, it’s not about rock music. It’s about rocks, like the actual rocks.

Brad Crowell 5:06
Actual rocks, so go kiss a rock today.

Lesley Logan 5:09
I just want to say like shout out to all my millennial friends who have had a pet rock. And any of you who enjoy like seeing a rock. Brad has a friend who like literally collects rocks from like very famous places…(Brad: He does he collects rocks from around the world) In our living room we have many, many of these random rocks now because of him. I think it was intention to give it to him, there is a rock from Alcatraz in our livingroom.

Brad Crowell 5:38
Sorry Michael, never passed that one along. Actually, I think that as funny as the pet rock concept is, I bet y’all out there have your own pet rocks, crystals.

Lesley Logan 5:55
That’s what I was wondering, are my crystals rocks? And so I’m unsure. It’s unclear, Brad’s googling as we speak.

Brad Crowell 6:02
Okay, so technically, a crystal is just a mineral that is not part of an aggregated solid like a rock, but instead it stands on itself. Okay, so maybe a crystal isn’t a rock.

Lesley Logan 6:13
It’s not international crystal day, we’ll figure out when that day is. At any rate. There are some beautiful rocks out there. Some are very smooth, there are very jagged, some of you can climb.

Brad Crowell 6:23
And if you like cactuses. There are cactuses that look like rocks…(Lesley: Which ones?) Stone cactus.

Lesley Logan 6:30
Oh, well, yes. I think I recall that.

Brad Crowell 6:32
It looks so cool. Y’all. Right now. Google stone cactus. Trust me. They’re cool looking.

Lesley Logan 6:39
I really think he thinks you’re all googling…(Brad: they’re so colorful) let us know if you do. All right. Okay. Well, wonderful. That’s amazing. Thanks, babe. We also just wrapped up our first virtual summer camp. So an OPC. In the past, we’ve done like, one every other month, or what a quarter where we do a workshop or a workout. And it’s just one. And the reality is, is there’s actually only 52 weekends a year. And then you add all the holidays from around the world, and you’re down to like 10. And the reality is, is like, it’s just too complicated track 42 Yeah, so we decided to take all of our amazing teachers, and our contributors, and just like, zoom it up with some amazing workshops and workouts, each of our teachers had their own individual one. And then we did a team one on the teaser, and it was freaking phenomenal. And those who bought it, whether you came or not, your replays are in your dashboard. So happy Pilates in and if you liked it, and there’s other topics you want, let us know we will add it to next. The next camp we do. But this was really fun, because everybody got to do one at one big shebang. And now people have access to them all the time.

Brad Crowell 7:45
Yeah. And if you want to get on the waitlist for when the next one may be go to

Lesley Logan 7:51
Thanks, babe. And now we are about to leave for the UK. We’re headed out there. We can’t wait. In fact, I don’t even know if there’s spots left. But you’re welcome to check at but we are going to be in Leeds. We’re leaving my dad in Dundee, Scotland. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed that he is there when we get there.

Brad Crowell 8:11
When we get back.

Lesley Logan 8:12
Yeah, I’m sure he will be…(Brad: he’s gonna be just fine) He’s so excited about it.

Brad Crowell 8:16
And he’s been talking about it for weeks. He’s already busted out his Scottish accent.

Lesley Logan 8:23
Oh, yes. And I think he’s getting his kilt lined. Oh, yep. So he might be in that. It’s unclear. Anyways, he’s ready to go. And we’re gonna do Scotland with him and leave him there while we go to Leeds and teach some workshops and then pick him back up. And then we’ll do some more touristy stuff. We’re not going to see Stonehenge speaking of rocks. This is true. It seems to be a little out of the way.

Brad Crowell 8:48
Yeah, it’s in the middle of nowhere.

Lesley Logan 8:49
Yeah. Unclear if it’s like necessary to like make the adventure. So we’ll do it another time. If it is. You let us know. Next month. We are on the first ever West Coast tour. You guys. At the time of recording this. We literally had announced it 48 hours ago. And holy frickin moly. Yeah, you West Coast, way to like, say, hey, West Coast best Coast like no offense to our winter tour people.

Brad Crowell 9:13
But we’re making it a contest, y’all.

Lesley Logan 9:15
Shit the amount of tickets that already (…) It’s okay, we’re coming. It’s gonna be good. We’re coming. It’s happening. We’re so excited to see you bringing the flashlights and also on this tour. We’re doing workshops. So we have lots of workshops. So those of you who do want CCS, or you want to understand the fast or some other things, we’re doing some lots of workshops, lots of workshops. Yeah, and we can see my mom shout out to my mom and and a bunch of our favorite people on this planet with eLevate, and Agency, and OPC.

Brad Crowell 9:44
So if you’re interested in figuring out where we’re going to be. We are leaving on August 6, we’re gonna be back on the 21st roughly and somewhere in the middle of there. We’re going south towards Southern California then central, Northern, and then up through Oregon, Washington.

Lesley Logan 10:00
We made sure to pick all of the hot cities we’re talking all of them Long Beach, Redlands, Bakersfeld, Hanford…(Brad: Bakers feld?) Yeah, Bakersfeld…(Brad: field, Bakersfield). Yeah. Modesto

Brad Crowell 10:19
Fairfeld. Just go to

Lesley Logan 10:25
Seattle is probably the one that I think (…)

Brad Crowell 10:30
Portland still not sure

Lesley Logan 10:31
But like but I mean like I just want to shout out to all these other cities because you know what? You guys always travel to the big cities to get someone to see you and we’re coming to you

Brad Crowell 10:41
Heck yeah. It’s gonna be awsome. Looking forward to it. It’s gonna be a crazy whirlwind for us. I can’t wait. Yeah. All right next we’ve got September, Poland. Go to pilatescontrology. Forgot to look it up, actually, yeah, we’ll get you the link. There’ll be a link to that in the show notes…(Lesley: I think it is I think that’s what it is Let’s see what happens there. Nope, that’s not it.

Lesley Logan 11:10
Conference Contrology, that’s gonna be in the show notes. Guys do not

Brad Crowell 11:16 we just flip the, you know?

Lesley Logan 11:16
I mean, sometimes I’m word dyslexic. Is that a thing? Anyway!

Brad Crowell 11:23
October, Cambodia. Y’all have heard us talk about this 1000 times go to Lesley Join us, there are still tickets. there’s still room

Lesley Logan 11:32
Just a few. And also we got to talk to a couple of our retreaters last week and I’m like, Oh my God. Yeah, I saw Ainsley like, I’ve seen you in July and October.

Brad Crowell 11:41
Ans there’s Jenny, coming from Australia. Yes. We have people coming from all over the world. It’s gonna be amazing.

Lesley Logan 11:48
Really the best time to buy the flights now anyways, so you haven’t, You haven’t crossed (…) enough. You can still come.

Brad Crowell 11:54
Yeah, it’s true. All right, it is true.

Lesley Logan 11:56
(…) Audience question, in case you didn’t understand what was happening on your Friday downloads of the podcast, the FYF situation is we share wins and I thought it would be fun for you, those of you who may be skipping the FYFs to feel what it’s like to be like to be inspired by wins.

Brad Crowell 12:15
Because you know who you are…(Lesley: Yeah, you’re the people) we know who you are.

Lesley Logan 12:18
You know who you are? You’re the person on like, oh, what’s what’s great going on right now. It’s just been a really hard day. (…) What’s the great thing happening right now? Well, actually, to be honest, like negative assay. So here’s the thing. I am sharing a few of our wins. So the first one is from Sonia, this is from eLevate, she’s an eLevate round two. And she said even if LL has said it a gazillion times, Pinkie side of the hand on the handle. I’m really seeing it everywhere now. And how it immediately connects people’s arms and my own to their backs. Bloody brilliant. I didn’t say it with the accent. And it’s in so many of the exercises too, but took me a lot of time and exploration to find it, feel it and experienced it myself before I’ve been able to pass it on really loving this journey. Sonia. I’m loving you on the journey. Olivia, also, in round two said, I pitched the idea of Joe’s gym class to some of my clients this week. They really love the idea and we’re actually so excited. I finally realized that I didn’t need to be so scared to teach it with my in person clients. Just because they’re not teacher doesn’t mean that they don’t have the same client instructor trust that we all have started up in a few weeks (…) Everybody should be doing those gyms. It makes your clients even get more out of a group class. I love that. UK Claire, you guys.

Brad Crowell 13:34
We’re gonna be seeing her in a couple days.

Lesley Logan 13:36
We also gonna see Sonia in Leeds. Oh, perfect. So you clicked Claire said my editor came back a day early with her initial evaluation. My tummy flipped and I thought that that meant it needed a huge overhaul. Okay, what she’s talking about, and she’s writing a book. Yeah, well, while she’s written a book, I was wrong and actually meant that she was really impressed with it. And thanks. I made my point clear. Wow. Now it feels more real. I actually wrote a book and someone read it and liked it. Cool. Sidenote, Jake Kelfer is who (…) the book with so if you listen to his podcast, and you’re like, I don’t know if I should write a book. She did it and and thanks she did it (…) Two other agency members have signed up to write a book with Jake

Brad Crowell 14:18
Yeah, so it’s only been like two months, three months or whatever. And now we got books happening. So kicking ass

Lesley Logan 14:26
And by the way, Claire started writing this at the beginning of this year and her books gonna be out this year. Like wow, it happens so fast. Her second win is when we are on our way to our dream cottage in Scotland for two weeks and last night I found a one five and 10 year plan I wrote on May 25 2021…(Brad: Okay, two years ago, yep.) First, on the firt on one year list was we have our dream cottage in Scotland. And we had a bump in the road last year we lost a house but that’s not the house that was meant for us, this cottage 100% is, I’d written a vision for a traditional cottage in a village with hills and a river and the sea. The house last year had one of those, this cottage has all of them. Y’all fucking write your wins down, write your wants down, and then go for it. So this is, so, every Friday I share several wins from people in the community, I share one of mine. And as you can see, some of these are like really big. Some of these have taken a long time. And some of these are just as simple as like a Ha, ha. And I love sharing these because it’s so important to me that we start to see evidence for things that we are actually doing in this planet, in this world, because that is how confidence is built. So thanks for letting me take over the audience question to share some wins. I’ll be back tomorrow with a bunch more

Brad Crowell 14:36
Okay, now let’s talk about Krista St. Germain. Krista St. Germain is a widow and grief expert who has turned her own devastating loss into a strategy for growth. Krista now helps others navigate through their own grief and trauma as a coach and a podcast host. Yeah, we already kind of mentioned at the top of the show here, y’all. But I was like listening as I was listening, like I’m working and I’m listening and, and like Leslie’s like, Hey, cool. So we’re gonna dig into grief today. And she’s like, Yeah, you know, I’m a grief expert. It’s like, okay, great. That’s so good. And then, like two sentences into the pod. I was like, I’m sorry, what? I can’t even work. I have to listen to the entire thing now. So it definitely it’s, uh, you know, grabs your attention. It’s a really sad story.

Lesley Logan 17:04
It’s a really sad story. It does look like it’s such a hard story, because I feel like it is so unique to her. But also, every single one of you who have listened know someone who has gone through something, if not yourself. And as she was talking, I was thinking about all the different people I know, in my life at that moment, who were really struggling with grief, and I could see why some of them are struggling more than others, just based on what we tell people. Oh, time heals all wounds. Right. You’re never given more than God thinks you can handle. All these things? Like who? Who had that? Like, do you hear that? Do you want to be told that? Anyways, like I said, a really top of the show. I have literally sent her whole podcast out and I’m like, Oh, she’s got a quiz. She has a quiz, y’all. If you are unsure what you need, you can take a grief quiz with her. And she’ll be like, here’s all the episodes that are related to the grief you’re in right now, which I think is phenomenal. Because you might not even know what you need, you know. So anyways, one of our friends, little, little one went through a really shocking loss. And I didn’t want to pry. And they were just like, hey, does anyone have anything for children going through grief? And I followed up with her today, like this weekend, and I just was like, hey, I want to check on you. And your daughter, like, how are you guys doing? You know, you’re like working and everything. And she told me what happened. And it was so great to not have to say I’m so sorry. I could just say that’s really hard. Yeah. And I could inquire about bringing her some things, and not overwhelming her on the summer vacation. So it just felt really good to not feel like okay, I’ll just say I’m so sorry. That sucks. You know, like it felt good. Now that it’s about me, but you don’t know what to do about people you love when they’re going through this and you’re like, I don’t, I don’t know what to do.

Brad Crowell 18:57
Yeah, I mean, you know, she basically, you know, you will fail if you try to make it better with words. And that’s kind of what Krista was talking about. Yeah, one of one of the things

Lesley Logan 19:11
Well speaking of what I loved, stop try to make it better with words.

Brad Crowell 19:15
I felt we were already there. I was like wow, yeah, we transition without realizing.

Lesley Logan 19:19
I also just, I’m so good at transitions. I also really, like, she said we need to cut ourselves a break. We won’t always say the right thing. And I think that that is really hard for a lot of people listening, hello my perfectionists and overachievers who just want to like, be amazing with the casseroles. Speaking of, there’s another episode, don’t bring fucking casseroles coming up but like it’s, you know, you’re gonna you’re gonna step on the words you’re not going to, you’re going to regret some things you said and it’s and words don’t actually make it better. So she so I don’t know that we need to like put these in your head but they’re in a better place is not something you say, at least they are no longer suffering, like all that stuff. I understand why we say it and I even have like, heard it in my head when people have gone through it without saying the words. And it’s like, why are these like the ear worms that are going on?

Brad Crowell 20:16
Well, I think, I think the natural inclination is to commiserate. But we might not actually be able to understand what they’re going through, because we may not have experienced something like that. And then we come up with something that like, I don’t know, maybe we heard it at church or whatever. And that’s, you know, it sounds like it could be helpful, but actually, it’s minimizing what they’re going through. And we’re not trying to minimize but you know, like (…)

Lesley Logan 20:43
Well, and speaking of, like she said, it’s been, but what also says that what people grieving need is for another person to not feel discomfort with their emotions, like, like, we need to, we need to not commiserate with them, because they actually are going to feel like they have to take care of your emotions. There was this woman that I went to, and she was a therapist, and she was bringing people up on the stage and they were sharing, you know, they’re asking a question to get some support from her. And she said, before she brought anyone up, she said, Okay, here’s the deal. I’m gonna bring people up, and they’re gonna share some things that you’re gonna want to like, apologize for, commiserate with them, you’re gonna see him in the bathroom and you want to go I’m sorry for what happened to you. And she says, You’re not allowed to say that. Because the answer, the response that we are trained when we are children growing up to I’m sorry, is it’s okay.

Brad Crowell 21:37
Right! And it’s not okay.

Lesley Logan 21:40
And so she was like, you can say, thank you for sharing your story. But you are not allowed to say I’m so sorry.

Brad Crowell 21:47
Well, I love, I mean, she wrapped that whole section up with saying, like, like, the reality is, they just want to be seen. And, but what does that actually mean? Like, I just want to be seen, right? They don’t want you to go to (…)

Lesley Logan 22:01
I think what happens is we avoid, if we don’t know what to say we just stop reaching out. And like, that makes them feel isolated. And, and so being seen is like, I think just showing up and dropping things off. And if it wasn’t helpful, okay, like, you know, you don’t have to actually like knock on the door and to get answered, you could leave things or, you know, you can try and think of someone else I was talking to, you know, somebody just picked our kids up from school. Just did it, didn’t ask, Can I pick your kids up from school? was like, Hey, I’m picking up the kids this week. I’m taking care of yours. Like, No, you’re not, you know, like, didn’t kidnap them. But like, the scene is like, anticipating people’s needs. If you’re a mom, and the person who lost someone’s a mom, well put yourself in those shoes. What would you go fuck, who’s going to do that?

Brad Crowell 22:57
I mean, the casserole can be that. But I also think that that’s like, I think that the bigger picture here is that dropping off a casserole isn’t the end of this, it shouldn’t be…(Lesley: you also walk the dog.) You know, there’s a million different things that you can do. But I think when you’re actually in the moment, and you’re speaking with them, the you know, like, sitting there and just being there is really, really powerful. You know, and you don’t have to say anything. You just say I love you.

Lesley Logan 23:29
I actually think not saying anything and being in that space and saying that and like holding, like just being there holding their hand. All of the things, so, being seen is what they want. And you can see people in different ways and it’s not with words. Anyways, what did what did you love? So what did you love about the death?

Brad Crowell 23:51
What did you love about grief journey and listening to her story? I felt like the permission that she gave that feelings are okay, is really important. And I know you all have heard me talk about my divorce before, but that was like the biggest sadness, like grief moment in my world, and that I’ve ever had in my life. And so I always relate back to like, I think back to that moment for me, and it was really interesting to listen to the second half of the interview, where she was talking about the overwhelming feelings. I mean, I was just talking about this with my dad. Not even a month ago, their dog, you know, they had to put their dog down, he was too old and his legs weren’t working and he couldn’t walk. And so you know, it was that time and you know how much we all get attached to our pets. We love them like they’re family. They are family. And for the very first time in my life, I actually had a moment with my dad, where it was like truly emotional. And he said, I asked them, I said, you know, how are you feeling about, you know, the dog not being there? And he said, Well, it’s really weird. And I look around the house and I see things that I expect there to be the dog. And he’s not there. I mean, they had him for 13 years, you know? And he said, it’s caused a lot of like, emotions to well up, that I don’t even expect them. And they just happen.

Lesley Logan 25:51
I think like, Krista even brought that up…(Lesley: Yeah, she did.) Like, even though she knew it was gone, there was just like, certain places, she expected him to be.

Brad Crowell 26:02
Yeah, like in bed, or she mentioned the garage door going up and expecting it to be pulling in. Yeah, you know, but what I thought was unbelievably helpful with that, specifically that, is that she said, our brain has expectations, which I find so funny, because it makes so much sense. I believe that all life is managed based on expectations, and the way we communicate our expectations will allow life to be amazing or shitty. But your brain has expectations too, which I thought was like, Oh, I didn’t even realize that, when she heard the garage door up open for a long time. I don’t know how long they were married. It was almost always probably her husband coming home. Right? So she said, You need to effectively be reprogrammed or be intentionally reprogramming your brain to or, you know, until that reprogramming happens. Yes, you will naturally associate that with the expectation of this thing, whether it’s rolling over and your spouse is on the other side of the bed. Or and when you realize that that’s not reality. What happens you become emotional, that’s just natural. She said your brain, you need to, it will reprogram over time. She said it just simply takes time. I mean, how many times did the garage door open? You know how long will it take for it to open and not be associated with that her husband come home?

Lesley Logan 27:30
Yeah, I love this. I know it’s in your notes. But she says broken heart syndrome is real. Where the heart actually aches.

Brad Crowell 27:37
Yeah. I didn’t look that up.

Lesley Logan 27:43
So, it’s, the broken heart is not reflective of what is wrong with you. It’s just grief impacts people differently. So like, I think it’s so interesting. Some people feel grief so intensely in the beginning, some people don’t even feel at the beginning. But then all of a sudden they felt later, right? And I think that like it’s important to know that you are allowed to process the grief however you want and people, don’t let people tell you that you aren’t or are you are grieving too much. You’re grieving too little. You should be taking a break like you do need to.

Brad Crowell 28:16
I do want to amend that statement. You’re allowed to process the grief anywhere that you want that isn’t self destructive. Oh, yeah. If you finding yourself in a self destructive mode, then it’s absolutely time to seek help. Right. And I think, you know, it was, for me, this self destruction was drinking. I would come home and drink until I would go to sleep. And you know, fortunately, unfortunately, there came a point where I was having a hard time at work, it was affecting my, you know, me functioning in the rest of my life, and I could no longer hide it. And I also felt like absolute shit. And I realized like, Okay, I have a choice to make here. You know, but it’s also you might not realize that you’re in self destructive.

Lesley Logan 29:05
Well, she said, this is where compassion for ourselves is important. Focusing on the basics of self care, which we should be celebrated. Hi, thanks by celebrations. Did we eat today? Did I shower today? Again, overdo it and perfectionist. Like we have got to understand that like, what I mean, like my girlfriend just had a baby. And that was like, I was like, did you eat today? Did you shower today? Like, I think it’s, I think we put these high expectations on ourselves, even in a grief process. Like I should be over this now. Right? Oh, I see. I see different posts like even

She mentioned the one year mark. People have this expectation that I’ll be better.

I know. And like I saw this in my mom. She was like putting this pressure like it’s been two years. I thought it’d be easier and it’s like, what? It’s not a race. It’s not like a like turn on the time clock and like it’s ding timers over. Dinner’s ready and you’re grief free, like, right? It doesn’t work like that. And so I thought, like, I love that she’s like focus on the basis of self care because like, we should always be doing that. And especially in that time, and if you can, if you can be compassionate to yourself in grief, what a muscle you can have afterwards.

Brad Crowell 30:18
Well, that’s what I loved the permission that she gave of feelings are okay, because that, the two year mark where, you know, your mom’s dad passed away, and you know, they lived next door to each other. So like, it was like part of her entire life. He’s literally there and also mom a couple years before that, right? And so, the two year mark, there’s no magic like, thing, right? And so, but if you know that the feelings are okay, it’s okay to have feelings. And they’re actually normal, and they’re natural. And they’re part of you, you know, moving through this experience. You know, I thought it was a really, really amazing permission. So, like you said, don’t be bummed. Don’t beat yourself up if you’re like, like, how come I’m not over this already? Or whatever. You know?

Lesley Logan 31:14
I think so. Krista, shout out to you and the work that you’re doing for so many because my goodness, we weren’t taught this in school.

Brad Crowell 31:21
No. Although we did learn about the five stages of grief which I promptly forgot. So anyway.

Lesley Logan 31:31
People can listen to her tell them and that’s fine, because that’s why we have the interview. And the recap.

Brad Crowell 31:36
No, no, I meant in school when I was growing up. That’s all I learned about grief. Like, I just knew there were stages, but I didn’t really know what they were, you know?

Lesley Logan 31:44
Did she even bring up if those were good or not?

Brad Crowell 31:46
She said they don’t matter. She did bring them up, or you brought that up.

Lesley Logan 31:50
Are you talking about like anger?

Brad Crowell 31:51
Yeah, I just know that, you know, time is the natural healer.

Lesley Logan 32:00
Except for you don’t say that. You don’t say that.

Brad Crowell 32:05
No, don’t say that to someone who’s grieving.

Lesley Logan 32:08
But you don’t say it to someone who’s grieving.

Brad Crowell 32:10
Yeah, I just, I just know, for me, it was that’s my, my personal experience is, you know, with my, I remember thinking about my ex, every single day, whether I wanted to or not, something would happen, where I would think of her. And I was, at first it was really, like, emotional, and it would send me down this path. And then I got frustrated with myself, actually, that I was still thinking about her why I’m, like, ready to move past this, you know, and then, and then I can’t even pinpoint the day that just stopped happening. And I was living my life. And then one day, I was like, Oh, shit, I just realized that I haven’t had that recurring thought cycle, you know, a month or three months or something like that.

Lesley Logan 33:03
It was because of me. I stepped up your life. (…)

Brad Crowell 33:08
(…) Just marry Lesley.

Lesley Logan 33:14
Just kidding. I just handled grief with humor.

Brad Crowell 33:22
My wife, I love you.

Lesley Logan 33:25
I love you.

Brad Crowell 33:27
And we’ll be right back. //Amazing.

Lesley Logan 33:32
And on a high note, Jesus sewed down.

Brad Crowell 33:35
All right. So we’re gonna move on to those Be It action items. One second. All right. Get a drink. Well, I can talk. Yeah, hold on. I gotta clap a second.

All right. Now let’s talk about those Be It action items, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Krista St. Germain?… Actually, I love this because I was so intrigued by this, that I looked it up and I started reading all about it…(Lesley: Did you do it?) I did it. I in fact, I’ve been doing it and we’ll talk about it. So tapping, right? so it’s called EFT Emotional Freedom Tapping. And I didn’t realize it but I’ve just was naturally doing it to my own body. In fact, I’ve probably done it my whole life like if I feel like like you know, sometimes I just tap on my leg

Lesley Logan 35:07
You actually do in EAT everyone can listen to a human talk about it for 17 hours, but it’s this like thing at least (..)

Brad Crowell 35:12
No but I don’t know I don’t know the differences between the two but the EFT part I didn’t I so I looked it up there are a handful of pressure points that are acupressure points. One is the hand, the bottom of the hands like a karate chop. Right? One is on the side of your head, your eyebrows, underneath your eyes, and then also your chin. And then also I think like right up at the crown of your head or whatever. So what what I wasn’t necessarily tapping, but what I have done my whole life is I’ve pushed, I’ve just pressed in on my eyebrows for like five seconds until a release happens. Right? And I didn’t realize I do this naturally. I do it all the time on my chin. Yeah, I still do all the time.

Lesley Logan 35:59
There’s reasons why we don’t have the same office. But anyways, tapping.

Brad Crowell 36:05
Yeah, so she said she’s a big proponent of it EFT Emotional Freedom tapping. And it’s, what she said about it, which I thought was really cool, was it’s twofold for you know, you mentioned first off that grief is released through emotion movement…(Lesley: trauma leaves the body through movement) Sorry, trauma leaves the body through movement. And then she said and while we were doing it with because she’s got a daughter and she said she would sit there and she would, you know, like together they would tap and she would say it’s okay, it’s gonna be okay. It’s gonna be okay. And she said when you tapped, when you tap on these, these acupressure points, it actually like literally sends like a release through your system. You’re and I’ve totally experienced that. It’s kind of amazing. So if you’re struggling with grief, definitely look into EFT

Lesley Logan 36:59
And she said there’s a Tapping Solution app. Yeah, that’s my takeaway. So she’s not familiar with it, but she loves their work and super great for beginners. You know, I’m already thinking up to send this my friend and you can download it and pay for it. So she actually used to do with nightmares for children when they were young. So they were already like ready to go. So parents you can just start them tapping now in case they need to use as a tool. And like you said, you can fill your whole body relax.

Brad Crowell 37:24
Yeah, she said it makes you feel safe. It reduces your cortisol level. You can literally feel your body relax.

Lesley Logan 37:30
Yeah, you guys, tap away…(Brad: tap away.) Tap, tap tap. I think there’s a sweetie song tap tap tap in, anyways, that’s where my brain went. You guys, I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 37:42
And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 37:43
This is not the last time we’re talking about grief. If you really enjoyed this conversation, please let us know so we can bring Krista back or bring in more experts on this because, my goodness, how does like how can grief like really truly make it feel like you’re not able to Be It Till You See It? That’s why I really wanted to bring her on. So let me know. Let us know how this helped you. Let us know what this allowed you to do, what permission it gave you. And if you try this tapping technique, tag the Be It pod, tag Krista and until next time. Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell
Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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