Reimagining Goals Setting

with Non-Reactive Strategies

Ep. 208 with James Patrick

“We learn in the process of releasing things to market and allowing feedback to enter into our ecosystem.”

James Patrick

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James Patrick is an award winning photographer, best selling author, business coach and media specialist based in Phoenix, AZ. He’s the founder of Get Published LIVE, an annual conference for entrepreneurs to earn media as well as the publisher of ICON REFINED, a media network celebrating the modern entrepreneur which includes a digital platform, multiple print publications and a top charting podcast. James’ mission is to create both art and opportunities for those he connects with.

Show Notes

Join Lesley as she interviews renowned photographer James Patrick on the advantages of specializing in any field. Discover the importance of embracing imperfections and how failures and feedbacks can lead to professional success in this informative podcast episode.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at

In this episode you will learn about:

  • How James overcame imposter syndrome
  • Career benefits of leaning into your unique differentiator
  • Breaking down goals into smaller, manageable tasks
  • The importance of progress over perfect
  • Taking action and audience feedback

Episode References/Links:


James Patrick: So when we start to break things into these manageable pieces, we actually start to get things done. And the more we start to get these little pieces done, the more confidence we are building in ourselves that, yeah, I can actually do this thing, that this, this idea, this can come into fruition. Like as I start to tick off these little boxes, I can start to move forward.

And it, it then becomes this self-propelling momentum in how we get things done.



Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan
Hey, loves, how are you? Okay. Today’s guest is actually someone I really just enjoy having conversations with. Uh, I. I met him through Kareen Walsh, who you all remember from one of our earlier episodes, and she is just phenomenal. If you haven’t listened to her, we’ll put that link in the show notes because she’s a badass and she loves to help you be a badass.

Um, but she introduced me to James through an email and I was, and he asked me if I wanted do something and I said yes. And then, and then because I said yes, I did something. And like he’s like, Hey, you wanna be on my show? And I was like, yes. And then we had them in the best conversations I’ve ever had in life.

And so of course I was like, well, you know, if you ever wanna be on my show, I would love to have you cuz like we have way too much fun talking together. And y’all, he, uh, only is not going to disappoint you in his amazing, inspiring, wonderful, honest answers about life and work and how you can Be It Till You See It, but we get into a goal setting, and it’s one of my favorite goal setting conversations I’ve ever had. Um, if you are an agency, uh, you get to meet him in our group because he’s speaking to our group. And if you’re not an agency and you’re like, wait, what’s that? Well, that’s where we coach people on how to do their business.

Um, but, and anyway, this episode, I’m really, I really can’t wait for you to listen to. I hope you can understand what he is doing; and, and you are going to want to go into the show notes. And if you don’t know how to find them, you’re gonna do this little swipey up thing. And you’re gonna find the links in the show notes because he has an incredible physical thing that you can use to make your goals of reality.

And I know if you are listening to this show, you’re like me, you’ll like a physical journal. I can’t read my own handwriting, but I still love one and I still buy them. So at any rate, here’s James Patrick.

Oh, and stick around to the very end because we got some outtakes that’s been happening. There’s always outtakes. Um, and the team does collect them for bloopers on the YouTube, but uh, we’re adding them into the end of the pod because you know what you need to know that we are not perfect. You’re not perfect, and we’re enjoying the process and we are enjoying that.

So have a good laugh on our behalf. Love you.

Lesley Logan: All right, Be It babe. I’m super stoked for our guest today, James Patrick is one of the most favorite people I’ve actually ever been interviewed by. One of the most fun conversations I’ve ever had on his podcast. And he said this amazing thing that he’s gonna share with all of us. And I was like, well that’s absolutely necessary for our Be It pod listeners.

Um, cuz we’re all about goals here, all about taking action and also like actually trying to accomplish them at the same time. So James, will you tell everyone who you are and what you rock

James Patrick: at these days? Well, thank you so much for having me on. I always get a little like overwhelmed with imposter syndrome whenever I have to describe myself.

Um, and I think that goes back to when I was trying to build my career as a photographer, which spoiler alert, I’m a photographer and I was working in marketing at the time trying to build this side hustle as, as a photographer. And whenever I’d be at networking events or, or socials or things like that, someone would say, well, what do you do for a living?

And I would chicken out. And I would not say I’m working on being a photographer. I’d always go with the safe route. Say, well, I’m working in marketing. And it wasn’t until I trusted someone enough not to judge me that I was comfortable saying, oh, by the way, I’m also trying to become a photographer. And at some point, uh, I, I think it was around 2006, 2007, uh, I was at a networking event.

Same question was asked, and I said, I’m a photographer, and that right there was a light bulb moment for me that made me realize, oh, I need to quit my marketing job because I’m actually willing to own this posture of being a photographer. So I’ve been shooting now for 20 years. I, I’ve shot close to 700 magazine covers.

Um, but I also tie in a lot of my background in marketing in press production, and helping my clients leverage the power of earned media to amplify their brands, to generate new leads for their business, and then how they can, how they can build an entire ecosystem from there.

Lesley Logan: Oh my goodness. I love how in your intro you somehow managed to make sure we heard how you were being it till you saw it.

Like, like you, you struggled to say that you’re a photographer, but when you said it, it was like, oh, well now I gotta let go of this thing. Mm-hmm. Like, and I actually can relate to that in a lot of ways, so I, and I’m sure some of our listeners can too, it, I remember when I became a pilates instructor, it felt really weird to say that because I had come from, Being this top manager in a, a very famous boutique, uh, from like that people around the world knew.

And then I was gonna say, oh, I’m a Pilates instructor. And it felt really weird to say it, but then it’s really interesting. And I don’t know if you got the same thing once I said it just like, like there’s this moment like, oh, I am this person. But people find it very intriguing when you get to be something that’s like, not the typical route that someone could go, they’re almost a little jealous.

They’re like, wow, you, you, you’re, you do that for a living. It’s like, yeah,

James Patrick: I do. Yeah, no one asked any follow up questions when I said I worked in marketing. Like, okay, that’s great. Um, but when I said, oh, I’m a photographer, well, that peaks curiosity. You’re absolutely right. I never thought about that, uh, until you mentioned it.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, it takes a, a good kind of curiosity. I’m sure like lawyers and doctors always get those follow up questions, but the, being a retail manager, being in marketing, it’s like, oh, okay. Like it doesn’t, okay.

James Patrick: Yeah. Okay. As if they look over your shoulder to see who else they can talk to in the Yeah.

Lesley Logan: Yeah.

Especially in LA uh, it’s just why I had to like learn how to get seen in, in the world. So you, you said it like over 700 covers and you’re doing all these things to help people build their brands. How did that come to be? Like, was that something that you kind of fell into just one step at a time?

Was it something that you had a dream about doing? How did, how did this all kind of come together

James Patrick: in regards to photography or shooting covers?

Lesley Logan: Uh, let’s shooting covers.

James Patrick: Um, it wasn’t a plan until at some point I counted it and realized that it was pretty substantial. My, my first job as a photographer was working in media.

Uh, I was working at a newspaper and prior to that I was a journalist. Um, and I don’t know whether the newspaper I was working at, if the publisher hated my writing or loved my photography, but he, he said, I can’t be a writer anymore. I needed to be a photographer. So he put me in the photo pool as opposed to the writer’s pool and I started shooting, uh, for a few issues, and then there was an opening to be the photo editor of the, of that newspaper, which I, I landed. Now to be clear, photo air doesn’t mean I edited photos. You don’t really edit photos for newspapers. What it meant was I managed the photo department. I had to quickly learn what photos worked, what photos did not work, and where to place images within the print publication, uh, that led to me getting a job as a photo editor at a startup magazine. Same thing. I have to manage a team of photographers. I have to assign out the, the, the projects and then I have to cull through all these images to determine which of these images are commercially viable that are gonna help sell this magazine.

So when I launched out my freelance photography business, I stuck with what I knew, which was shooting for media production and it just made sense that I was shooting lots of magazine covers cuz I knew what images to take to make a magazine cover that moved units. And at some point, uh, someone asked me, well, how many of these have you done?

It seems like a lot. I think at that point it was like 500 or something like that. I was like, oh, I should actually keep track of this at this point.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, that’s so, um, that’s, I love that because I think sometimes people can forget the strengths that they learned along the way. Mm-hmm. And like having those opportunities just allow you to hone in your skills of photographer when you’re taking pictures. It was like, well, this is something that’s gonna actually sell the thing that it’s on top of. Like, it really does matter. I have, I, I have to do that sort of for myself with newsletters. I’m like, that picture, why would you choose a picture?

Put that picture away and it’s like, I clearly need a photo editor and that’s fun cause I don’t wanna be that person. But those, it matters for whether something, uh, fill, take, goes off the shelf or sells a book or sells a product versus it doesn’t, you know, it doesn’t really matter if the product’s amazing, if no one will look at the picture

James Patrick: that’s on it.

I think so often we’re afraid to lean into these unique differentiators, uh, because it’s like, well, I don’t want to turn off some clients if I, if I only focus here then other people are not gonna be too interested. And my opinion is no. It’s when I focus here on on, for example, media production for myself, it was really hard to compete with me on that when I said I don’t just take photos.

Anyone can take a great photo. I can make an image that I know is gonna work. I know is going to move more units. I know it’s gonna sell more ads. I know whatever it is, I know this is going to work. So while everyone else is taking photos, I’m gonna make an image that works now if the goal was not to sell magazines.

If the goal was not to move magazine units, if the goal was not to get published, there’s no reason to look at my work. There’s no reason to hire me there. There are other photographers that that can do better in other areas, like for example, um, Events. I am atrocious at shooting events. I, I would be the worst person to hire for it.

It, it causes me physical pain and anxiety to even think about shooting events. Um, food and beverage, I absolutely love shooting food and beverage. I would not consider myself even remotely, uh, commercially competent to shoot food and beverage. Um, whereas other people would absolutely decimate me should they bid against me on a food and beverage, uh, uh, campaign.

So I, I’ve really tried to stay in what I believe I excel at and use that as my unique differentiator because there people cannot compete with me.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. When, well, and I, you know, what I love is like, the more you actually, as you say, lean into your unique differentiators, the better it is for you because you become the best at what you it is that you do.

Mm-hmm. But so many people are, are so afraid. What a, what? I mean, you’ve probably seen it along the way with the people that you coach and the people that you work with. What is, what do you see as the fear that they’re like, if I, if I put myself in this position, I like am alienating all of this. So like, I’m just gonna be for everybody, which we already know is not gonna work.

But why? Why is that fear so great that it’s keeping ’em in the place of thinking that it’s going to work when it doesn’t and we already know this?

James Patrick: The assumption is, is that they’re going to lose work and they’re gonna lose opportunities that that opportunities within their specialty are too finite for them to build something substantial out of.

And when I launched, my photo business was right around the recession in 2008, and I had the problem where I was quite, um, Ubiquitous in trying to do everything. You know, I could shoot fashion, I can shoot editorial and I’ll shoot, um, you know, events or whatever, whatever would pay, I would say yes to. But when budgets are very tight, which they were, uh, and by the way, budgets are always tight.

There’s no such thing as, as, uh, uh, like a big budget. I’ve never had a client, like, I always get the email. It’s like, well, our budgets are really tight right now. I’m like, I’m just waiting for the email to say, Whatever you want. The, you know, throw, throw, throw the biggest, uh, number you can at us. But, um, budgets were tight.

And so if, if you have a very, a very limited amount of money, and let’s say you’re shooting a fashion campaign, are you gonna shoot the person who is competent enough to shoot the fashion campaign or for the same budget are you gonna hire the person who specializes in fashion? Yeah. You don’t have money to redo this.

You can’t mess this up. Who are you gonna hire? You’re gonna hire the specialist, the person who you trust to do this project right the first time. Then it became, well, I just need to be a trusted resource for that. So when it comes to being trusted for this style or this approach, or this, this vision, yeah, I’m gonna be hired for that.

Now does that mean I lose out on some campaigns? Of course it does. Yeah, that’s fine. But it doesn’t mean I lose out on everything. Uh, last week I was shooting, uh, a product, uh, right across from me and my office. I, food and beverage. Actually, I have to shoot product labels for a food and beverage company.

Now, why did I get that? Because I, I built a relationship with that person, not because I, I, I might be the best photographer to, to, to shoot this, uh, but because I have a great relationship with that client and that’s why they hired me. So this idea that we’re gonna lose out on everything is just not accurate, and it’s never proven to be the case.

But not specializing in something is almost a guaranteed way to lose out on opportunities that you are hardwired to, to, to be getting. Hmm.

Lesley Logan: Oh, everyone. Rewind that. Listen that again. I love that so much because it’s true. Like there are some things that you’ll get by based on relationship that happened in my business as well.

Mm-hmm. And, but also, like even for me, I, I am a small business. We’re trying to be a big business, but we still have budgets for things. I love my photographer that I work with, she’s phenomenal. I, she does events really, really well. That’s how I met her. But she’s a personal branding, uh, photographer, but she does not do the photos.

Even with the relationship I have with her for my flashcards, my exercise photos are a specialist. He specializes in shooting movement. He specialize in shooting, shooting athletes. So I can actually keep moving while he takes pictures. I don’t have to hold every exercise as it’s going. And it’s just because you, you gotta, you have to make sure that you are hiring the best for, for something when, especially when budgets are right, but when you have a purpose for that product.

And so the more we lean in, you’re, you’re, I. I love the way you actually said, it’s like you’re guaranteeing that you’re gonna get the jobs that you’re the best for instead of losing out on on the ones that you could have been the best for. Um, so you’ve been a photographer it sounds like, for, oh my gosh, you’re almost at 20 years in this business of solo doing photographer.

Obviously your job has, your role has evolved and you’re doing these other things. What are you most excited about doing right now?

James Patrick: I, I don’t know if I could distill that. It’s kind of like asking what breath I’m excited to take next. Um, every …(Lesley: Choose your favorite child.) Yeah. Every day I, I go to work. It’s, it’s different.

Like today I get to spend time with you recording this podcast. And the only other thing on my agenda today is I get to post process, uh, a handful of, of projects I was working on. So photo editing, um, I’m excited about that. You know, I, I get, I get my cup of coffee. I, I, I get to put on some music in the background and I just get to kind of zone out in this meditative state while I just work on this.

And then tomorrow I, I’m doing copywriting all day and, and I’ll have fun doing that. And Monday I’m filming content, uh, where I have to be on camera cuz we’re going into a launch. I have to film a bunch of, uh, sales videos and marketing videos and I’m gonna have a, a crap ton of fun doing that too. I would rather just not do work that I don’t really feel lights me up.

Um, I choose to work, I choose the work I do. I choose to work very hard, and I also choose when I’m not working. Mm-hmm. Um, um, so, You know, that’s not to say, and I don’t want to sound like I’m on a soapbox where, you know, I just never, I never have a bad day and I don’t, I don’t find things that, that frustrate me and, and stress me out and cause me just massive amounts of, of paralysis and anxiety.

Um, but that’s not the goal. The goal is to, to love what I do. Um, I would say, One of the things I’m, that’s been lighting me up a lot recently is I started, I started, uh, taking my podcast and incorporating a lot more video into it. Uh, and I started doing it at the start of the year, and that has been just such a joy to do every week to, to be able to go live, uh, and have people tune into my show, live and be a part, uh, an active participant in my show live.

Um …(Lesley: that’s so cool.) It’s, I just, I had wanted to do it for years and I got tired of trying to make it perfect and I just did it and it’s been great and I’ve had so much fun with it. So, and I think maybe that’s the reason that comes to mind right now is just cuz it’s the most new thing that I’ve been doing.


Lesley Logan: yeah. So I, I agree. Like I, um, There are, there are days where like, even in my job, it’s like, ugh, I just don’t really wanna work today. Mm-hmm. But when I actually start working on the things I’m like, I really do, like, I do actually like writing my own newsletters. I, I love copyright, I love writing a sales email.

I’m not the best person at it, but I like, have fun the way I write it, that it does really well. So I enjoy all the different parts that I do. However I can remember back to when I was like in 2015 trying to make the thing I’m doing now, the thing I was doing by myself, like making all the money and doing the job that like was the j o b just over budget, paid the bills, had the security of the healthcare and all that stuff, and trying to bridge the gap of like how taking that eventual leap while living in LA and paying exorbitant rent and some parking tickets, um, because you just never got out to your meter in time. Um, so, you know, for me, making those goals, that was easier to break ’em down and, and, and, and finally get to this place where I, I get to do what I chose to do and I’m really excited about it. For those listening though, what are, what are like your, like what is you, how did you break your goals down?

How did you make sure that like, that you could have this job or like you get to do everything you

James Patrick: like to? So I was running into this problem a number of years ago where I would set goals every year because I knew. So every book I read said it was important to set goals. So I’d set goals for myself and then I’d forget about ’em or, or I’d, you know, file my goals into a, a folder that would go into a final en cabinet that I wouldn’t look at until the next year.

I’m like, oh, did I actually do that? No, I guess, I guess, guess not. Um, and even goals that I did remember wanting to do, I never really conceptualized how I was going to do it or what that process would look like. So by the time I would come up to when I thought this would be done by the more insurmountable that goal became and, and the more stressful that goal became, it was just easier just not to do it.

So what I decided to do was to create a living document that I looked at regular. That I would catalog my goals at, and I would check in with on a routine basis, because at least now I’m not leaving my goals, collecting dust in a drawer for, you know, 11 months. I’m looking at it monthly. Or, or every other month, or even weekly, you know, and I’m trying to see, okay, what do I need to do?

So it, this was an Excel spreadsheet I started like a decade ago, a little over a decade ago. And then every year I would refine it a little bit and add a little more context to it and break the goals down a little bit more. So that, let’s, let’s take, like I’ve been hosting events for 10 years. Let’s take, I wanna host an event this year.

Well, that is a really big idea. Yeah, and the closer you get to, well, I wanna host an event by July, and now all of a sudden it’s May 31st, and you’re like, I got a month to get this thing off the ground, and I’ve never hosted an event before. I don’t even know what to do, so I’m just gonna cancel this, this, this goal is just, and that’s, that’s unfortunate because that could have been an amazing event and you are now robbing all those people who could have attended that event the absolutely phenomenal experience of being a part of seeing your idea come into reality. So I started to break these goals down into, well, what needs to happen this quarter? All right, what needs to happen this month? What needs to happen this week, or what needs to happen this day? And the more granular I made the goals, two things happen.

Number one, it drastically reduced stress because now I’m not thinking about building an event. I’m thinking about this month alone. I just gotta find a hotel to host the event. That’s all I gotta do this month. And then next month, then I can figure out food and beverage, and then the month after that, then I can figure out speakers and sponsors.

So I’m now segmenting my attention. I don’t have to worry about speakers and sponsors right now. I just gotta find a great hotel and I can put my energy into that in this moment, and all of a sudden it allowed me to refine my focus and everything. And not just in business, but in, in, in my personal goals. Like, you know, I wanted to take two personal trips.

Uh, you know, in, in a year, well, taking a personal trip you can break down as well. Well, what does that mean? Well, I need to research places to go. I need to book airfare and hotels. I need to book, uh, experiences on these trips, and I can now put this into different months or different weeks as I lead up to this trip.

So that, oh, I said I was gonna go on vacation in August. I’m now in July. I don’t know where to go. You know what? I’ll just cancel it. Now. I’ve robbed myself of a great vacation. So when we start to break things into these manageable pieces, we actually start to get things done, and the more we start to get these little pieces done.

The more confidence we are building in ourselves that, yeah, I can actually do this thing. That this, this idea, this can come into fruition. Like as I start to tick off these little boxes, I can start to move forward and it, it then becomes this self-propelling momentum in how we get things done. I am

Lesley Logan: so glad you brought up the confidence part of it.

That is why so many people listen to this podcast. And then why I even created this podcast is most people are like, Lesley, you’re so competent in everything you do. And I’m like, well, I actually have a lot of imposter syndrome. Most of the things I do, cuz most things I’m doing I’ve never done before. So I’m flying by the seat of my pants.

But I am someone who loves to work backwards. I learned that many years ago and I, and it is the most helpful way to take on a big project and also, You said confidence, but also it kind of guarantees you’re gonna do the thing you’re scared to do because you’ve already done all the work, you already booked the hotel, you’ve already reached out to the sponsors.

You almost get yourself into a position where you can’t back out. Cause it’s harder to back out than it is to do the scary thing. And so, um, but when you said you’re robbing people or you’re robbing yourself of an experience, that to me is one of the most important things people can take away from this right now as you’re listening, every time you are too scared to share who you are and what you do and how you rock at it, or every time you skip out on something that is gonna change people’s lives or your own.

You’re, you’re preventing the, everybody from having this experience, they could change their life, could absolutely, that vacation that you were gonna take could have been the thing that allowed you to end up meeting the person that was your best friend or meeting the meet, getting a different job or, or just maybe moving, like, I almost skipped out on not going to Cambodia cuz my husband wanted to go there for our honeymoon. And I was like, really? That’s where you wanna go on our honeymoon? Can we add an island in there? Can we just, but as soon as we landed I was like, oh my God, this is my favorite place in the whole world. Right? And if we, and we did the same thing planned the honeymoon cuz I had nine flights in 14 days cuz my husband’s an ex, ex musician and he’s like, oh, we’ll just go on tour.

You can see people see three countries in a week. No problem. And I was like, really? That’s how you do this? But it’s those little steps each time so that it builds up and becomes the goal that you had in the first place. I, um, you’ve said you’ve been doing this for 10 years. Have you been able to help other people see how to break these things down?

What about the people who are like, they don’t know the steps in between, you know, like that, breaking it down to small pieces, they’re not sure the steps in between or the order of those.

James Patrick: That’s such an important question because this approach does not guarantee success and that, that I really want to, to be clear on, but the goal is not success.

The goal is progress. So when I first host an event, I had no idea host how to host an event. So of course I got things wrong. That didn’t matter the event still happened. And every year, you know, we’re going into our ninth year of this, of this conference, and every year it has improved. Um, even, even going into this year nine, there were things in year eight that we didn’t do right. Right. Quote unquote. I, yeah. We didn’t do as well as we could have. Every year we’re learning. Uh, so, so this, this idea that I need to perfect something before, before I begin. Mm. No, that, that’s another great way to always keep something as an idea. Uh, it, it is about testing. You won’t know what works until you try something.

Um, and, and I love how you said that. Even, even where we’re at now. We’re still not confident that things are gonna work out. I, as long as I’ve been doing this, I, I, I still am terrified that something is going to go awry or something’s not going to work, even if I’ve done it a hundred times before. I was launching a new brand couple years ago and I was feeling a little nervous, a lot nervous about it, and I, because of that, I was getting a little testy at home.

My wife always says, why are you, what are you worried about? I’m. Well, I’m putting a lot of time and energy into this. I’m putting money into this and what if this doesn’t work? And she just looked at me and she’s like, well, then you’ll do something else. Oh, okay. I guess you’re right. And you know, spoiler, whatever I was launching did not work.

I lost money on it. And, and, hey. Check my pulse. Yep. Still here and still doing okay. Um, so the goal is not perfection. The goal is progress. As we start to work incrementally towards this, there’s no way for you to know how to do everything or how to perfectly reverse engineer, but that’s not an excuse not to try.

Yeah. Um,

Lesley Logan: Yeah, that’s just, I Thank you. That’s a really good point. Um, you know, we work with a lot of athletes, uh, not athletes, excuse me, um, uh, fitness instructors on their goals and their business, and they’ll, I can, I can see when they’ve missed. They, first of all, too many times I see people, but too many goals on that are unachievable for one person in one month.

So I’m just like, too many goals and it’s like, I love all these, but we do, you have 40 hours a week to work on these, like these, you know? So giving yourself achievable goals is really great. But also when you set yourself up like that and you don’t do them, or you don’t get ’em all the way because a roadblock came up, I see people shut down.

Oh, I missed the goal. I failed. And it’s like, actually, how could you have known that your website would need all this copy? If you’ve never built a website before, how could you have known if you, uh, To put a scheduling tool together was gonna take you three weeks instead of two weeks. Like, you can’t know these things.

So we put dates on things because it helps us get them done. Right. Prioritizes, yes, it puts in a priority, but getting it done, uh, perfectly is not the goal. It’s the progress. It’s like moving the ball forward, not kicking it down the road, but like actually moving it down, moving it forward with that, with that information that you learned.

And so sometimes you have to reset the date.

James Patrick: So, um, couple things I wanted to say on this because you brought up a few important points. One thing about setting goals, I would, I would encourage people to set goals that they themselves have control over and that are not required to have another party or another, uh, company be the decision maker.

So, for example, it would be frustrating if I were to set a goal on. Oh, I don’t know, uh, number of, uh, new stand covers I want to shoot in a year. Uh, cuz I don’t actually control that. Mm-hmm. There’s another company that chooses whether or not my work gets put on that cover. So let’s say I say, oh, I want five new stand covers this year and I only get three.

I might feel bad about myself, but that didn’t mean I didn’t work my ass off to get these covers, so why should I feel bad about that? Instead, I could shift that to, I want to send off 10 pitches a month. I want to, uh, send off a hundred podcast submissions per quarter. I want to record 20 YouTube videos, uh, per year.

Now these are things I control and I’m working towards goals like shooting new STEM magazine covers, but I’m not setting my, how I view success or fulfillment upon conditions that I don’t have control over. And that’s something that’s helped me just reduce some of the, just stress I might feel if I’m not hitting something that I don’t control.

Um, like I wanna launch a website, okay? I can set a loose date of when I wanna launch a website, but if I’m not designing the website and someone else is designing the website, I can only control my aspects of it, how fast I write the copy, how fast I turn around the edits, how fast I upload all the materials, how fast I purchase the domain.

Those are the things I can control. I can’t control when a designer says they’re gonna get their work done. So that, that I think is important. And the other thing is, um, we have this, this way of the closer we get to finishing something, the more we find wrong with it. Um, when I worked in marketing, uh, I, I was doing professional service, uh, business development.

So I, I pursued public sector work for, uh, architecture and engineering and in pursuing these projects, On the regular, were six to eight figures. Um, when did the project manager come into the room to assess their opinions on the pursuit? Did they come in at the beginning or did they come in at the end?

They came in at the end like, well, I don’t know if I like the team this way, or, I don’t know if we’re, we’re highlighting the right past projects, or, you know what, maybe we need to bring into this other subcontractor. And my response is, holy shit, are you way too late on this? Because we have to turn this submittal in tomorrow by five o’clock.

Or we don’t get this project. Now, if you would’ve come in at the beginning of this process, then all that stuff could have been factored in. This is why we’re trying to reverse the engineer at the beginning. So guess what? All this stuff that you’re gonna do is gonna do one to two things. One, it’s either not gonna happen and we’re gonna submit as is, and maybe we get it, maybe we don’t.

And number two, we’re gonna try to squeeze all this in and we’re gonna miss the deadline, and then we’re not gonna get it. Okay, so coming up with these objections or these, these alternatives or these scenarios, worst case scenarios at the beginning can help create some, some ideas on how to work through if these things ever do surface or if these things ever do arise.

It’s like we have an event happening at my studio next week, and it would be very counterproductive if my business partner came in and says, oh, we need to change the, the order of the speakers and we need to shift around, uh, you know, how we’re doing registration, or, you know what, all these people who bought tickets, we need to adjust what, whatever this scenario is, that would be a bad time to do it.

Okay. But if they were to do it at the beginning, Now we can work this through. It’s, it’s, it’s just a way of, once again, allowing perfectionism to delay actually getting something out the door.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I, first of all, both points: love. And the second point, I really, um, can, from my own experience, it is really funny how the closer we get to like something seeing the light of day, we like start to nitpick noodle or like all of a sudden have this reason why, ugh, this actually shouldn’t be like this.

I remember when prior to this podcast launching, I had recorded, you know, you have to have like 11, whatever, who knows what it is today, but back then I could launch with 11 episodes, so. Mm-hmm. And I thought that was a lot. And, um, but I remember like doing them, um, I didn’t, I’d never interviewed people like for a podcast before.

Really. I’d been on the other side. So I’m doing the best I can. And right before it was supposed to launch, I listened back to some of them and I was like, this microphone we have is terrible. Mm. Now wouldn’t it have been a good idea, prior to actually interviewing all those people, to check to see if I like the sound of the microphone?

I didn’t, and I had sat there for like a week thinking about what am I gonna do cuz like, I don’t wanna re-interview all these people, but I’m not really sure I love the sound and as I was about to just stop myself and like stop myself from moving the ball forward, from having the goal of launch of the podcast on time.

Thankfully. Well, someone I look up to in this world, I’m sure you’ve actually shot her a cover several times. I listened to a podcast, she launched some friends, and their audio was so crappy. I thought, if these women can put that out, I’m gonna put mine out and I’m just go buy new microphone. So episodes 14 and on have a different sound and we’re just gonna go with it.

But I really did that perfectionist. That’s why I said I’m a recovering one. That perfectionist almost got me to stop and now if looking back I can see what we made a mistake on and now for other things I can, I love this idea of like, let’s think about the things that we might wanna change. We might, that could go wrong at the beginning.

So we actually put the lead time in to deal with that now we have the time before we don’t have the time. Genius little addition in there.

James Patrick: How many people, um, complained about your audio quality? …(Lesley: No one has.) Okay. Just checking. Uh, people will overlook a lot or they won’t notice things or they don’t care as long as the content’s good.

Uh, you know, it’s, people care about outcomes and results, uh, when they’re investing even. Time and energy. If, if the content’s good, if they are getting the outcome that they wanted out of it, they’re gonna, they’re gonna ignore so much. You, you’re

Lesley Logan: 100% correct there. Because even when, so now it’s probably eight, nine years ago when I started on YouTube.

This is like before, you know, before I could, before getting access to like, you didn’t have AirPods or wasn’t there. And so like getting a a lapel mic was pretty difficult. And my husband’s like, he’s like, you have to be on YouTube and I was like, insert all the imposter syndrome of why I should be on YouTube over anyone else.

But anyways, we did it and it was, you know, pre tripod. We hadn’t even, like, we were like taking messy action, should we do this? And so he is like trying to hold the camera really still while I’m like filming an exercise. And of course it’s LA So then an ambulance goes by. Mm-hmm. And you’d be like, stop, start again.

Those videos though are still getting views today. No one’s complained about the audio. No one’s complained that there’s not a tripod. We got better along the way. But when the content is, what is answering questions people have, they will, they are more forgiving. Um, you know, and then, and now today there’s like so much access for so many affordable prices to noodle and, and, and do things better.

So we can, but, um, you know what a great reminder that like, if that, it’s okay if the, if what you’re doing is actually great quality, in other ways people will overlook some things. So give, give yourself some space

James Patrick: and grace. I always get nervous when someone asks a question. Um, what’s the best microphone to get?

Um, what is the best recording platform to use? What’s the best camera to purchase? And I’m just, I don’t care. I, I don’t know. Um, whatever you use, I, it doesn’t matter. I, I, um, speaking about podcasts, you know, early on when I started podcasting, there weren’t as you said, is accessible of gear or technology. I mean, we didn’t have Zoom.

We had to drive to people. So I would, from Arizona, I’d drive to LA to go interview people because I, I desperately wanted them on my show and I was using these old crappy microphones. I actually just found it. It might be behind me. Yeah, it is. Um, I found it in a, in a, in a case in my studio, uh, that’s like 15 year old microphone.

Um, It’s a USB microphone, and I didn’t know that you couldn’t plug more than one SB microphone into a laptop simultaneously because they record at different speeds. And thus you will have this terrible audio quality from one of your guests. And here I am in Los Angeles interviewing this, this big, you know, fitness celebrity, and you can’t hear her through the microphone.

So we have to pull her audio from my microphone, which is across this table. And by the way, we’re recording in this giant auditorium. So there’s this massive echo all around because we didn’t know about soundproofing back then. And, and you know what? That episode did very well for us. It was fine. Yeah. It worked out.

Um, yeah, so it’s, once again, this is, We’re, we’re hitting upon this beat that the more we try to perfect something, the more we are delaying getting feedback on whatever it is we’re trying to put out. Our audience will tell us that they want it different. Our audience will tell, you would never have known your audio didn’t sound great until you listened to it.

And, and ultimately you decided, okay, we’re gonna put this out and then we’re gonna make a shift. Um, I would never know how to refine my events unless I launch my event. We, we learn in the process of, of releasing things to market and allowing, allowing feedback to enter into our ecosystem. Well, absolutely.

Lesley Logan: Um, the co team membership we have now just turned, it’s about five and a half years old at this point, but when. Seven years ago, I launched something very similar, but I perfected it. I made sure everything was ready to go. I went, I launched it, and guess what? No one actually bought it. No one did, because I didn’t get feedback along the way.

I actually wasn’t talking. I wasn’t even talking about it along the way. So no one even knew it was even coming because heaven forbid I tell anyone and then they ask me a question and I like start to doubt myself and my imposter comes in. So I protected this goal. All by myself, did it all myself. And then, and then guess what?

I got to keep it all to myself. Cause no one wanted it. And so after six months of trying to make this thing work, uh, we took it all apart. We broke it down to pieces and I did what I should have done, which is just put one piece of it out. See if people liked it, get feedback on it, put a different piece of it out, see what happened.

And what ended up happening over the next year and a half is what we found people really liked. We put that together, made a membership out of it, and now we’ve coached over a thousand people with it. So, you know, like …(Patrick: That’s amazing.) It, it’s amazing. And with the smaller version of, we’ve coached over 2000 businesses with it.

So it’s like, what is so cool is I definitely had to learn the hard way, but since learning that now, it’s always like we put the thing, I’m thinking of doing this out there. What’s the feedback gonna be? What are the questions people are gonna ask me? What weird stuff am I gonna see out there so that I can go, oh, okay.

People either didn’t understand what I was saying or they loved it, or I can do this. And it really helps you know where you should be spending your time so that you can take your amazing way of goal setting and work backwards before I spent another year on something that nobody knows they want.

James Patrick: I think what’s important to take from this is this ability to launch and to put something out there.

It is not a talent. We are not born with this. This is not innate to anyone. This is a skill. This has to be developed. Um, you, you developed this through podcasting. You developed this through, through trying to launch programs. You developed this by, by putting yourself out on YouTube, you had to learn and exercise this muscle that taught you to.

Test things out and to put things out and to try things and to get feedback. I had to learn this as a journalist. Um, that’s why, you know, I, I started, uh, my career in journalism as I mentioned, I didn’t have the benefit of ever experiencing writer’s block. Weren’t allowed to have writer’s block cuz you had deadlines.

So writer’s block was not a thing. You had to write, you had to turn in and you had to get it into, into print. You just wrote, you don’t know what to write. Doesn’t matter. You write, it’s filled, theirs, doesn’t matter. You gotta send it in. And having that experience of it, it has to go in. You cannot, I worked in a newspaper.

It’s not like you can put out a blank page in a newspaper. You have to turn something in. Um, you get really used to this idea that it’s okay, you can put it out. And then work on the next thing. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think this is, you know, for those listening, you’re like, well, I just don’t have that in me. Well, you don’t because you haven’t yet.

Mm-hmm. Um, it’s like when someone says, you know, well, I don’t have a background or any experience in marketing. I says, no one does. No one has a background in marketing until they market. Like no one has a background in sales until they sell. No one has a background in anything until they do it. You don’t have a background in shipping things out the door until you start doing

Lesley Logan: it.

Yeah. He made me like think of like, you know, Seth Godin? He talks about how like writer’s block, he’s like, do you have talkers Block? Have you ever had that? No. You, you don’t have writer’s block, you just have like an imposter. Like you just have this fear of being rejected and that’s why you’re not putting on the page, but you.

You hit the nail. It’s like we have to be nice to ourselves and like it’s like you’re, the goals you have in this life you wanna (…) Be part of every single goal that you don’t know how to do. Otherwise you wouldn’t even have the goal cuz you could just freaking do it. And it’s like learning a new skillset set at a gym.

You have to learn the muscle on how to do it. You don’t have that experience. And so of course you’ll have imposter syndrome around it. Of course you’re gonna have fear around it. You’re new to it. Mm-hmm. And so having some grace for yourself to be new and to learn something and to make mistakes, that’s how you learn.

The best lessons I’ve ever learned in life is every failure I’ve ever had. And also, we are the worst people to judge the content we’re putting out. Because some of this stuff. Some of the episodes that I was like, oh, I don’t know how that’s gonna land. People thought it was the most amazing episode.

And I was like, oh, okay, well then who I, who am I to judge? Cuz clearly I am not the audience. So I think, you know, we get in our own way and we’re, and, and to use your words again, we’re robbing people the experience of, of what we have to put out there, if we just pick it apart and make it so perfect before we

put it out there.

James Patrick: Yeah. I, I just think we have this disproportionate fear of a fallout that even when things don’t work, and I’ve had plenty of things that, that did not work as, as I hope they would. It is not relative to what could actually happen. Mm-hmm. Or how bad things could actually be or really not be. Um, you know, I’ve, I’ve never had to go hungry.

I’ve never had to sell my car. I’ve never had to live, you know, sell my house because, because something didn’t work. I’m just fine. Like it’s okay. There’s enough things that do work.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And also like the reality is nothing has ever goes as bad as we think it’s gonna go. Or as great as we think it’s gonna go.

Yes, yes. It’s just like, it just you, it’s okay to to have those both extremes and just know, okay, if I land somewhere in the middle, it’s gonna be pretty darn good. I

James Patrick: get so mad every time I read a book where some, some jackass is like, you know. So I launched the website and the next day I woke up and I couldn’t believe it.

There was a hundred thousand dollars in my bank account. I’m like, screw you all that piss. Uh, the thing that I saw, I saw this last week and this really chat my ass where it was an online coach. I don’t know why, for someone who works as a coach, why get so upset by other coaches. But they were like bragging about how much money they’ve made thus far in the year and like, here’s how much money I’ve made thus far this year.

And, and I apologize if you’ve done this. I, I, I don’t know if you have, but, um, I was like, okay, why are you doing this? And then it was Carousel and they were talking about, okay, I’ve made this money this year, here’s how I did it. But it was all a bunch of kind of bullshit advice. Like I showed up every day.

Okay, and you’re saying this to people who are working their asses off. This is so cruel and what you’re doing is, one, you’re creating this misperception that if you show up every day and these people are already working 12 to 14 hours a day, they cannot work any harder than they’re working. And that, number two, that you must know something that they don’t, so they should be giving you their harder money.

I’m like, what you’re not talking about is the fact that the reason you’re making this much money within the first two months of the years because you’ve put in 10 years of background work that allows you the relationships, it allows you the access, it allows you the opportunities. It allows you the insights and the perspective and the hindsight to know what works and what doesn’t work.

Like it is so inappropriate to, to cast that in front of someone else and, and, and use it in just such a braggadocious way. So why did I put on that tangent? Oh, oh,

Lesley Logan: success. Yeah. Yeah. I, but thank you for sharing that. And I think everyone needs to listen like, You know, first of all, I’ve never posted like, this is not much money I made and just show up every day.

Fuck that. Like, no, I use math. I use like, I also, I also think it’s like, one of the things I think maybe is why people like me, um, and I’ll just brag a little bit. It’s like I’m very fucking honest and very direct. Mm-hmm. Like the reason I’m really good on camera is cuz I took a commercial acting class.

Okay. Like, that’s why I can look at the dot as an elder millennial and think of it as a person. That’s why I can picture the humans on the other side, cuz. Somebody somewhere said you should do commercial acting. And you guys, I was a, I landed all the jobs and then I took this class and I never landed a single one after that.

However, I was so good before, however, It allowed me when I got the opportunity to be on camera for fitness to actually, like I have done many a live news show because I am not scared to look at that post-it that they said, this is your eye line and like picture the audience because I had this opportunity.

That is not a natural strength that anyone has. You have to learn that and you’re either gonna learn it the hard way or you’re gonna learn it by taking a class and hiring someone but you, it’s just not your like natural. To like do those things. And so I think just to your point, it’s like anyone you’re looking at who’s saying all these things and you wanna have those things, you should know that there was a million other things that got them there.

Some things were by chance some things were relationship and thumbs thingss were skillsets that they might not even realize helped them get there, cuz maybe they haven’t done that work. But every step along the way, along your journey, James, along mine, along those of you listening, is like, it all leads you to where you are so you don’t have to discount anything you’ve ever been through.

Like the jour, the, the left hand turn that was the wrong way or the goal that didn’t go the way you wanted. Just like James said, you this, this process isn’t a guarantee that you’ll hit every single goal you’ve ever wanted, but it is going to progress you somewhere.

James Patrick: Mm-hmm. I, I was, uh, recently reading Robert Irvine’s new book, chef Irvine.

He did that show Restaurant Impossible. Uh, I, I got a copy of his book cuz he was on my show and, um, no, he’ll never listen to us. It was okay. Uh, but the thing that I appreciate the most about it was this one line that says I make decisions on my business based on fact, not emotion. The balance sheet does not lie.

Mm-hmm. I was like, oh shit. I am so guilty of letting my emotions decide how I feel and what decisions I need to do based on. Well, I’m feeling a little nervous about this, or, you know, uh, I’m just not sure, you know, maybe I need to pull back the reins or, or I’m ignoring my balance sheet.

I’m like, oh, things are going great. You know, and, you know, may maybe things are, are are dumpster fire. Um, the balance sheet doesn’t lie. And for so many years I was so afraid to look at my balance sheets because I didn’t want to look at the truth of what I was doing. Once I started doing that, and it was very uncomfortable by the way, to look at my balance sheets versus how much time I was spending on my business, uh, how much we were taking in on the top line, what we were taking in after expenses.

Um, but once I started doing that, once again, this was a muscle, I started making such better decisions about the future and the direction of, of the work I was doing. But it required accepting, looking at hard data and fact. Um, so I I love that you brought up your, that, that, you know, your balance sheets, you know, you can look at the math and I was like, oh, I just read that.

That was so good. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Lesley Logan: I, that’s, that is such, that’s a, a hard skill set for people to learn because they, they’re so passionate about what they’re doing. But, um, you know, my husband and I held some in-person events at our house. There were business retreats. Her fitness instructors and the first one was phenomenal.

Sold out, no problems, no issues. The second one was like fucking pulling teeth. And we knew it was a great thing. Like I loved doing it. He loved doing it. The people who came, we had 24 testimonial videos that were 10 minutes long, like so great, but for whatever reason, we couldn’t get the second one to go.

And so when you look at the balance, she’s like, this is a great idea. That requires a bigger wait list than we have. And so to do it again, we need to build that wait list up and give ourselves another year before we do it again. Like just give ourselves a time because I do love doing it, but it also has to pay for itself and then some.

So cuz otherwise the IRS is gonna call me a hobbyist and not gonna let me keep going.

James Patrick: Yeah, I, I remember the first year I launched my conference. Anyone that’s attend at my conference, I’ve told this story, uh, it didn’t work the first time we tried to launch it. We tried to launch it in June of 2015, and about a week before the event I had sold two tickets. I had, uh, five times as many speakers as I had attendees.

Um, I had a hotel reserved for this event. Uh, I had a deposit. I signed a deposit. Um, obviously I cannot host an event for two people as I have 10 speakers. This is not going to work. So, um, you know, we, we ate a little bit of our investment on the hotel, and we bumped the event by three months. Uh, we sent a extremely, uh, like sorrowful mea culpa to all the speakers apologizing that we have to bump the event and, and please accept our sincerest, uh, you know, apologies for, for having to push this. And we hope that they’ll join us when we redo this event in October. And then I did a massive, uh, overgiving of service to the two people who, um, you know, with the canceling event, obviously we refunded them. I did one-on-one coaching with them.

We gave them free passes to the, to the event where we hosted it. But it required a re-approach. Like we needed to redo this, we needed to do this differently. We needed to shift how we were marketing. We were, we were very reactive in our marketing and very reactive in our approach, thinking that our clout or our, our, our, our network or whatever it was, was just gonna be enough to move this, this along.

And we realized, no, we have to really put forth some energy into, into moving these tickets. And three months later, the event was sold out. Hmm. Packed house. Not a single seat available, but it required that failing. Yeah. In order to realize, oh no, we need to shift our approach here. This needs to be done differently.

But once again, we didn’t know. Yeah. Not cuz we never host an event before.


Lesley Logan: also like you would not have learned those things if it had half sold out. If it had half sold out …(Lesley: good point.) You would’ve probably gone through, you would not have known what worked or didn’t work, and you might not have ever had another event again.

She’s like, well that. It was like, okay, it was okay. You know? Yeah. So I think like, um, I, I just to like bring this back to the goals, it’s like, it is not about the perfection of achieving the goal, it’s about the progress along the way, and it really does force you to change who you are along the way to become the person who can do these goals.

James, I could talk to you forever. I think this happened on your podcast as well. So you all, if you wanna just continue, you definitely have to go to Beyond the Image pod and listen to my episode on there. Before I let you go, we’re gonna take a quick break and then we’ll find out where people can find you, follow you, work with you, and your Be It action items.

All right, James, where do you like to hang out on the socials? Where can people go to an event, maybe get this, uh, can you have a, a way for them to understand how you do the goals, the way you do them, anything like that? Yeah.

James Patrick: So, um, I, I like to make things super easy for people. So, you know, Instagram’s home for most people.

So, @jpatrickphoto on Instagram, um, I did take this approach to goal setting and about a year ago, I decided I just wanted it in a P D F for myself because I got tired of working in an Excel document. And then a couple of my clients saw and they said, well, can we have that? I said, sure. So I, I packaged it and, and sent it out to about 50 of my clients and said, well use it for a year and then let me know what you thought about it. Um, and they did, and then we, we packaged it into an actual planner. So it’s called the Legacy Planner, and it’s available on Amazon. Uh, you know, you can get a hard copy, you can get a

Lesley Logan: paper back or Oh my gosh, my peeps are going to love that. They can buy a hard copy of a planner.

James, do you know? Well, I’m, I’m all

James Patrick: about tactile, like, I like writing things down. And the way it works is you build out your vision for the year. Then from your vision, you build out all your annual goals from your annual goals. You build out your quarterly plans. From your quarterly plans you build out your monthly actions. From your monthly actions you build out your weekly sprints, and from your weekly sprints, you build out what you do every day of the week. So it’s a, it’s an annual to daily planner. Um, and, uh, this is what moves us forward in our, in our, in our goals. So, yeah, you can get it on Amazon or, uh, if you just wanna try it out, go to

I just uploaded the PDF of it. You can download the parts you want, print it out, try it out, and just see how it works, uh, because I’d rather you customize this and make this your own. Uh, as long as it means that, that you’re moving forward and you’re actually exercising this muscle.

Lesley Logan: Oh, I, I’m not kidding.

Like I can tell you right now just because at the end of every year inside my coaching community, like what are your favorite goal planners? I like this one. I like this one. And I was like, I can’t, I can’t read my own handwriting though. I don’t have, but I want yours, so I’m gonna go to Amazon and get it.

Um, Imma I’m gonna have it primed over tomorrow so I can take it to Mexico while I’m, while I’m on vacation thinking about things. James, um, before I let you go, You’ve given us so many amazing tips, but bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see

James Patrick: it.

The first thing is not to rely on reactive approaches to, to anything.

Don’t rely on reactive marketing. Don’t rely on reactive business development. Don’t rely on reactive launch strategies. You have to be proactive, and that’s so much of what we talked about today is how to set a goal, how to reverse engineer that goal and how to put things into motion to test to see how things work in, in the refinement.

And then that kind of leads into the second thing is a perfect idea will be infinitely less successful than an imperfect idea that was actually put out. When we put something out to market, we get feedback. When we get feedback on something, we know how to refine it, how to adjust it, how to make it better. We need to stop looking at things as static.

Even this planner is not static. I can change this at any point and release a new edition. Even though this is a print thing, I can always revise this. Things are dynamic and we need to treat things as such. Mm-hmm.

Lesley Logan: You are amazing. James. We’re gonna, I mean, we’re gonna have to have you back cuz I just really enjoy our conversations and learning so much from you. Y’all, how are we gonna use these tips in your life? Are you gonna get the planner? We’ll have all the links in the show notes below and make sure you tag James Patrick and the Be It Pod with your takeaway. Send this to a friend who needs it and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of the ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.


Come on trying to come into the podcast room as soon as the podcast starts.

I was on a call in my office and the girl on the call was like, is there a storm? Because their palm tree is like really blowing over behind you. And I looked back and I was like, that is so crazy. The sun was just out. And she was like, oh yeah, no, I saw that. And then all of a sudden I was like, wait a minute.

And I looked and it was snow, just like snow. And I was like, I’m so sorry. I have to go outside and take a picture of this. I’ve gotta, I’ll be back.

Yeah. So it’s just, yeah. Well, hope it’s gonna be cold on. I’m going to Mexico next week. I gotta get outta here. I gotta get, I got seventies. Oh, good for you. Yeah, it’s, it’s time. I, I gotta, I gotta see some sunshine. I gotta get some heat. [00:59:00] I didn’t move here for 32.

Any questions? Nope. I am completely at your mercy. All right, wonderful.

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