From Stoic to Vulnerable

and Navigating Emotional


Ep. 224 with Lesley & Brad

“It’s so important that in partnerships there is a place for each person to have the ability to release their emotions.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

Lesley and Brad share their key takeaways from their conversation with Jay Twining, the creator of the Feel Good Fatherhood podcast. Discover how to transform mundane small talk into profound interactions, fostering lasting relationships and how men can better understand their emotions, enabling them to express them effectively and meaningfully.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • What craniosacral therapy is.
  • Why a person can be alone but not lonely.
  • How can one get into a deep conversation and build a relationship?
  • Vulnerability and how to identify and express emotions effectively.
  • The importance of having outlets to express emotions.
  • Why communication is key to a successful relationship.

Episode References/Links:

Lesley Logan: Emotional self-control is something that is actually attractive in us and something that’s expected of us as fathers and men in particular today. And I think you know that, that like the emotional self-control can be like a clamp around them, you know? Mm-hmm. And so there’s moments where it can be okay to be vulnerable and other times where you do have to keep it together.


Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It Interview Recap, where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the devoted convo I had with Jay Twining in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to this interview, feel free to pause now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us.

You guys, this is coming out around the Father’s Day weekend in the US and so I thought the devoted father episode should be around the same weekend, if Father’s Day is a different day where you live, then there’s a method to this madness and, and you should still enjoy it right now cause we’re talking about it right now.

Today is well it’s June 15th. If you’re listening real time, and I love this, my team put some notes. It’s sneak a kiss day. But if you want to, we could talk about World Elder Abuse Awareness Day instead. And it’s like, well…

Brad Crowell: I kept trying to find something that was like Father-like, and the only father-like thing was Elder Abuse Awareness Day. I was like, that’s dark as f.

Lesley Logan: So here’s the deal. If you’re gonna sneak a kiss, make sure you have the c onsent of the person you’re sneaking a kiss from, period.

Brad Crowell: Fair, fair, fair.

Lesley Logan: However, we should talk about world elder abuse because it is an international holiday and also I don’t think we have to actually know how this works.

And the truth is, is that depend on where you live in this world, there might not be an actual enough places for your elderly families to be at. If you live in the States, I’m talking to you, there’s just not enough places for our our family folks to be at, and it’s really, really important that you understand what is happening when they’re there and that you are an advocate for them. So please take some time to talk with the elders in your life about what they would like their life to be like and what they would like you to do, and make sure there’s some communication around that. Brad’s been doing a bunch of stuff about it, like our death shit, and it’s important.

It’s important to have living will. It’s important to talk about this, and it’s also important if you see a bruise on people like. Investigate. They have thin skin.

Brad Crowell: But yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s the thing when you think elder abuse awareness, it’s sometimes it’s family directly, you know? And that could be neglect, that could be actual abuse and maybe like they’re, your in-laws living with you or your family member’s older and living with you, but it could also be from a facility that they’re in.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. There was a, there’s a, there was a facility. Well, many facilities actually. I have friends who work in the industry and there was this one facility that was like drugging these certain elderly patients of a type of illness to basically like make ’em catatonic so they wouldn’t have to deal with them.

Right. And that is abuse. They don’t need to be on that medication. So, and it is so hard once they’re in there. So please make sure that if your family, your parents are not yet in that stage, make sure you know what the insurances are gonna allow them to do. Make sure you have a conversation and make sure you have this preparedness happening because you don’t, it’s, that would be the worst thing to discover.

Brad Crowell: Well, I also find it’s strange, not that I’m an expert on this, but I just think it’s weird how we as Americans don’t really…

Lesley Logan: …take care of our elderly? We just put ’em in a, we put ’em in a home.

Brad Crowell: Well, I was, yeah. Yeah. But I, but I was gonna say, we don’t respect the elderly culturally.

Lesley Logan: I know. In Cambodia it’s so different.

Brad Crowell: It’s so different in Cambodia.

Lesley Logan: Everyone takes care of grandma hack, everybody.

Brad Crowell: In Cambodian culture, if you’re old, you are like, revered, you know, and like your… Your community takes care of you. It’s not just your family.

Lesley Logan: And also, like, everyone’s a little bit afraid of grandma.

Brad Crowell: Maybe, I guess, but, but…

Lesley Logan: It’s in a good way, you know?

Brad Crowell: Well, it’s, there’s a, there’s like a lot of, it’s a different perspective, you know, like here, it’s like we hit, you know, mid, late seventies and then, you know, we’re too busy for them or something and it’s just weird, you know, it’s a very different lifestyle.

Lesley Logan: You know, also like I don’t blame the people who’ve ignored their family members a certain age who have opposite beliefs of them. So then that’s hard.

Brad Crowell: There’s that too.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, because like, it’s hard. It’s, it was, I mean we talked about this in the podcast. It was so hard whenever I’d call my grandfather and he’s like, just waiting to die. And it’s like, well, I think I’m gonna stop calling you cuz that’s hurting my mental health. So it just, look, I say this as it is so hard, this is not something I wanna talk about.

But it is important, at least be aware of the elders in your life and make sure that they have care or you know, what the plans are for care. And then be curious if there are bruises or anything going on, trust your gut on that and be aware of it. It’s a world elder abuse day, and if that depresses the fuck out of you, like it does me, then sneak a kiss from someone who’s okay with you kissing them.

All right, onto the next thing that’s happening in this world.

Brad Crowell: Webinars.

Lesley Logan: June 21st. We’re doing a webinar if you wanna know how to convert first time clients. This is for you, y’all.

Brad Crowell: This is a Profitable Pilates webinar.

Lesley Logan: ​It’s also the first thing I ever did in coaching teachers around business.

It’s like literally the reason why I started coaching people in business is because someone was like, how come you have so many so many clients? How come every person who comes in for a first session becomes a client who buys a big package? And I was like isn’t that my job? And then I realized it’s so hard for people.

So this is actually how I became a coach. So it’s gonna be amazing is what I’m saying. It’s 13 years of awesomeness that you’re gonna get for like, if you get it early, 25 bucks if you get it late, 37 bucks. Hello. Amazing. Go to the link of the show notes for that. And then in July we’re gonna be in the UK. We’re gonna be in Leeds and we’re gonna have a couple spots left on our mullet tour.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, there’s only a few left. It’s amazing. I’m very excited. So, if you’re on the fence, Don’t, don’t wait because there’s limited seats just because of the space in the studio.

Lesley Logan: So, thanks Clare Sparrow for hosting us and we can’t wait to be there. Go to for that. And then in August, we’re doing our West Coast tour, so hello, California, Oregon, Washington. And then, I don’t know, something on the way home, I’m sure. But go to to make sure you are, you hear about all the cities we stop at.

We’re getting all the cities nailed down, locked in and loaded. And we’re so freaking stoked. Bringing the dogs.

Brad Crowell: We should have some more news actually in like a week.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. Technically in real time we’ll probably have the news happening.

Brad Crowell: No, from this one, when this is out.

Lesley Logan: Oh, a week from this. Okay. Cool. Goals. September will be in Poland. Sign up, So there’s a wonderful host who is bringing in Contrology equipment to Poland. She’s bringing in a couple of us teachers there. We’re doing a lot of amazing workshops and yes, we’re bringing the flashcards so. Get your Thasses there because this, this might be my only time in the next couple years hitting that up. So we’ll see you there. And of course, in October there is still time to join us in Cambodia on our retreat. We have a few spots left. Our house is basically full, so we, if you are like, don’t use it as an excuse to not come grab the last spots. We know how many we can have and it’s gonna be a lot of fun. You don’t wanna miss this one.

Brad Crowell: Oh, we have a great group already coming. And, and seriously…

Lesley Logan: Amazing ladies.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. And we got a mom and daughter couple coming.

Lesley Logan: And we might have a husband and wife, so that’s so fun.

Brad Crowell: We have besties coming and I’m pretty sure the husband’s not gonna do the Pilates on that, so that’s an option too for y’all. Who have a partner who isn’t into Pilates. That’s okay. Yeah. They can join us for all the food and the fun and the tours and, you know, the experience. It’s a lovely vacation. Even if they’re not there for the workshops.

Lesley Logan: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And you know what? I just can’t wait. We just kept back from Korea and I already miss the humidity. Like I miss it. My lips are chapped all the time. Yeah. I wanna get back. I wanna get back to Asia.

Brad Crowell: It’s also getting drier here right now. It’s like really? I noticed it. You know, really strong in the last week, like I know, but our cactus, soon as we got home I was like, oh yeah, it’s dry. But then like over a week later, I’m like, whoa.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, but your cactus looks phenomenal. Oh my gosh. They’ve all doubled in size.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. It’s incredible. Yeah. The really insane growth and beautiful flowers this year.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. But that’s, that’s actually not what comes next. So, no, we first have an audience question.

Brad Crowell: We do. This is a long one. So bear with me here. This one’s from Cassie Bernard, and she says, listening to this episode completes a line in the O P C Go challenge for me, which was O P C. We did this awesome bingo style game. And she said, I’m curious about the term Jenny used "nutraceuticals". Is this a compilation list found on the Institute for Functional Medicine?

Since menopause hit me like a Mac truck in 2020, I’ve become my own expert like Jenny, researching so much information, books, resources, podcasts, talk to my doctor, and started hormone replacement therapy about seven months ago. It’s amazing how so many of the things that you both mentioned, trouble sleeping, digestion, digestion, stress confined solutions in non-pharmaceutical treatments. I too had infertility issues for years in traditional medicine techniques to try and conceive until I learned about, bear with me here, craniosacral therapy. Craniosacral therapy. Love this conversation about exploring beyond, do you have any podcast interviews about craniosacral therapies?

Lesley Logan: So actually we actually, after I saw this question, I was in Connecticut and I got a craniosacral session for myself, and I was just there and they were doing craniosacral and I’m like, hi. Hi, I have an audience member who has a question. Can I get a craniosacral massage? And also, would you mind answering this question?

So, in a moment, our voices are going to go away and our amazing team is going to edit in a audio answer from Alyssa, who is a craniosacral massage therapist off out of Connecticut. And we’ll have all of her links in the show notes below. I’m so excited.

Brad Crowell: Y eah. That’s so cool. Before we go to that clip though just some definitions for anyone who was listening to that going, I don’t know what the fuck any of those words mean.

Nutraceuticals is actually food that has, cont it contains health giving additives and having medicinal benefits. So that’s nutraceuticals is food. Craniosacral therapy is a gentle hands-on technique that uses a light touch to examine membranes and movement of the fluids in and around the central nervous system.

So around the head and the the neck. Is that right? That’s what happened?

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the whole body, so C S T referred to, so I’m super excited for Alyssa to answer this question in just a moment. I’m so excited for you to have that. I don’t know, in our team’s editing, so I’m just gonna keep talking.

As far as Jenny, I love her. And her advice here. You know, as far as non-pharmaceutical options, Brad actually used to be in a company where they experienced not being able to like, get FDA approval. Yeah. On a drug that could have helped people who had herpes sores around their mouth because it was an all natural product.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. It got fucked up the way that the, the government allows you to patent things and to for, you know, the formulas in medicines. So there was a scientist doctor who figured out how he could use plants to solve to attack the herpes virus.

So there’s this company that I used to work with where there was a doctor scientist who had figured out some parts of some plants that could actually help humans battle herpes one, two, and three. So like three is shingles, herpes one and two are, you know what, you know, but the, the…

Lesley Logan: Do you know what my, my sex ed teacher said to me? And his daughter was in my class. He said it used to be the herpes one was up here and herpes too was down there, but then everyone got creative and now herpes one and two are, are happening everywhere. That’s, that was explained to me in high school and my friend who was his daughter was like, I’m so embarrassed.

Anyways, keep going.

Brad Crowell: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Picking it back up. So what actually happened was they figured out a formula that’s all natural and they tried to get it approved by the fda and they couldn’t because there were no chemicals in it that they could actually , you know, patent. And so it became this crazy journey to then like insert unneeded chemicals into this all natural product just so they could get a patent on it. Yeah, it was crazy. Yeah. So eventually everything stopped because, what the fuck?

Lesley Logan: Yeah. So anyways, Cassie definitely, you know, continue your journey on figuring out what works for you because when it does come to menopause, it does. Ah, like perimenopause does.

It’s very personal approach and you do have to try out different things. And if you listen to the last recap, we actually talked about some books for that. And then as far as craniosacral goes I know you don’t live in Connecticut, so Alyssa might not be your person, but take a listen to her. Reach out to her.

There’s gotta be somebody else. The Yeah. Reach out to her and and we’ll work on getting some other full episodes on that, but I just didn’t want you to wait until we could get someone in to record them, cuz it might be months from now. So here is her amazing advice.

Cassie Bernard: What is cranial sacro therapy? So cranial sacral therapy is a gentle hands-on technique that’s used to assess your essential nervous system and your body’s fascia. Your fascia is a connective tissue that lines every organ, every muscle, every bone, and every neuron in your body. And so sometimes the, this body’s fascia can get tight and wound up and it needs some, um, help and relieving some tension.

And your central nervous system is made up. Of your brain and your spinal cord. So we’re really using cranial sacral therapy to assess what’s going on in that central nervous system, and also feeling the movements of the bones of the skull, something that isn’t really talked about much. Those bones are constantly moving and sometimes when the body’s fascia is a little bit tight, um, and there’s some tension there, it can hinder some movement of those bones, and certain symptoms can show up like migraines or headaches, or even tmj.

So those are gonna be some conditions that cranial sacro therapy is really helpful in relieving. And if you also have a history of trauma, uh, maybe P T S D, um, have past surgery, can also create some scar tissue and help in wind up that body’s fascia. And so we really see, um, that emotions can be stored in the body’s fascia as well, and that can cause some issues.

With the connective tissue in its movement. So cranial sacral therapy can be very helpful in those conditions. It’s also very helpful in chronic headaches or migraines also, um, TMJ or, um, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, anxiety, or depression, it can be very helpful for those conditions because we’re assessing the body’s.

Um, sometimes when we’re assessing, um, there can be a misalignment and. Relieving some of that tension can help with some of those symptoms. And in terms of perimenopause, it can be very helpful if you’re experiencing any mood changes, anxiety or depression because we really are working to support the central nervous system and support the um, parasympathetic nervous system specifically, which is our rest and digest center.

Many of us don’t spend enough time in that part of our nervous system. So supporting it can be very helpful and stimulating that part of the nervous system can be very helpful as well in relieving some of those mood changes in perimenopause. I really hope this was helpful and answered some of your questions about cranial sacral therapy.

If you’re looking for a cranial sacral therapist, A quick Google search of cranial sacral therapist near me can be helpful. You’re looking for somebody who’s certified in cranial sacral therapy. They may be a massage therapist, a physical therapist. Also, naturopathic doctors like me can also perform cranial sacral therapy as well.

So, um, I really hope this was helpful and I definitely recommend getting, um, giving cranial sacral therapy a try.

Lesley Logan: And we’ll be right back.

Brad Crowell: Okay. Now let’s talk about Jay Twining. As a past game designer who made the decision not to repeat his own father’s mistakes, Jay Twining is an example of a father navigating his career and parenting. He now works as a personal brand strategist.

And is a creator of the Feel Good Fatherhood podcast. And he highlights honest conversations with men about fatherhood.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, it’s kind of like the fitness guys we’ve had. So like, just another, I think it’s cool that there’s some dudes out there going, Hey, we actually wanna be vulnerable and we wanna have deeper conversations. Wouldn’t that be cool? I think it’s really awesome.

Brad Crowell: I totally agree. And also the last, the interview with Jay was like, yeah, we talked about his pod, but actually we talked mostly about his story.

Lesley Logan: I know. Oh, I love the journey.

Brad Crowell: How he came to the decision of, you know, what the pod was and then you know, where he is today and what he’s doing now. And the struggle that he went through to having achieved his like personal goal and then realizing that the achieving of that goal is actually wrecking his life.

Lesley Logan: Well, and also since we interviewed him, he and his family were able to like sell their house Yeah. And move to Nashville. And now he is supporting the family so his wife can go figure out what she wants to do because…

Brad Crowell: Yeah, they’ve been able to flip.

Lesley Logan: She’s, yeah, they’ve been flipping it. So I think it’s just, this is like a really pretty cool, I think it’s really cool because like in relationships, like who said, it’s like 50 50 and then I watched up the view for one second and this, and this one woman who’s whose name is for like escaping me, but she’s like, it’s 90 10, 90% someone, 10% the other.

But the point is that it shouldn’t be 90% always one person. Like it switches back and forth. Yeah. And I. And I think I think that makes a lot of sense. So anyways I really enjoyed this conversation. I actually wanted to bring up the part where he said, it’s totally fine for you to be alone. What is not okay is for you to feel lonely. And that was from another game developer when he was working. And I just really enjoyed this because I think that like we, it can get confusing about like, should we, like how much time we should be spending with people. Like what should we be doing? Like how busy should we be?

You know, like some people are like too busy to die, like everyone’s just really busy or then they’re like, they do nothing. They, the pendulum swings so far away and, and it’s important to like acknowledge like, I am alone in this moment, but I am not lonely and like understanding what your feelings are.

As you’re going, as you’re going through it. So I really like that. And then he also said that he tried to come up with the five questions that help you can build, that can help you build a relationship with anybody. So like, you know, Brad, you’ve been in sales, I’ve been in sales. Like you start to buy rejection, learn what, like the best things and the easiest things are to get information about what people want.

You know, like what people are, what people are motivated by, what people are interested in talking about. Like you get really good at that when you are in a job that’s a sub solve service industry job, like at a restaurant or in a store. And so if you’ve never had those jobs, you might not have these skill sets, but start to pay attention to what questions light you up when you answer them. Like if someone asks you a question you can’t, you like are like, wow. Yeah, no one’s ever asked me that before. Write these things down in notes in your phone because he was like, have these top five questions because it allows you to be in a room with anybody and really get into a deep conversation with someone. And start to build a relationship because we all need friendships in this world, and they’re gonna come in a variety of places, but like, you know, oftentimes we’ll be like, how are you? I’m good. How are you? Great. What do you doing? How you doing today? Great. Oh, the weather still alive. Let’s talk about them cowboys, blah, blah, blah. Boring, boring, boring.

Brad Crowell: I think I, and the, the reality is it’s easy to deflect. You know, with, with like superficial top level questions and answers like that. But getting deeper definitely takes practice. You know, it’s like you can still like think through it and be prepared and then when you’re in the moment, you’re like blank and you forget, you know? So in order to, you have to be intentional about the conversation.

Lesley Logan: And it means you have to actually listen.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, but you could be listening and they’re doing superficial shit is my point. So like, you know, if you want, you know, having a list of questions is great idea because it allows you to steer the conversation to a deeper place where you can get to know them well.

Lesley Logan: And also if you don’t wanna talk about work, then make sure your questions to them don’t have to do with their work. Because the reciprocity game is that if you ask ’em about what they do, they are going to ask most likely what you do. Yeah. So if you don’t wanna do that, You have to talk about like, oh my gosh, what are your, like, what are your favorite restaurants?

Or we just moved here. Like, you know, where, where do you go for date night? Where do you go to like, just like relax. Where do you go to just like get in touch with nature? Oh my gosh. They might go, oh wow, I haven’t gotten in touch with nature in 10 years. You could have a deep conversation about that. You know, so like, it’s okay, you know, I like, I, these are just, I thought these were practical tips.

I really enjoyed it. What did you love?

Brad Crowell: Yeah, so he said part of the feel good fatherhood. Is really being in touch with what’s happening on the inside, knowing that you have an emotion and that you know how to handle it. And he, he was a really talking a lot about anger and how that’s like a built-in response.

Mostly you know, and, and we don’t realize that that’s a natural response but letting that, you know, carry through. It’s important to feel the feels, but also you can’t just freak out and fly off the handle. But he was also talking about vulnerability and you know, where, when is it appropriate to share and when is it not appropriate to share?

And he talked about like the stoic man approach, where the heroes, you know, like, like the, like think about. I guess, I guess Clark Kent had Lois Lane and he was probably vulnerable with her, but you know, from the rest of society’s perspective, like he’s just a man of steel and he’s never vulnerable cuz he’s always taken care of business or any of these superheroes.

Lesley Logan: Did Lois Lane know that he was a superhero?

Brad Crowell: I don’t think, at first, I don’t think so. I, I think at the end, towards, towards the middle and the end of their relationship. It’s the same with Spider-Man and Mary Jane. I mean, oh yeah. She didn’t know at first, but, you know. Yeah.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I, but you know what’s so interesting? Like, I feel like this, this is great advice for everybody, not just like, I love it that I, I think it’s so important for men to be having this conversation and to like, really, I think this is really, really important, but I also think that like, Everyone listening to this could also go, huh, I need to like, understand these things.

I need to understand the things about myself. I need to understand what’s going on inside of my body. I know I need to understand how to express my emotions in a way that is not restrictive, but also appropriate. You know, like…

Brad Crowell: I feel like there’s a lot of generational, like, like yeah, it’s generational too. You know, like, like, You know, your dad is in his seventies. My parents are in their sixties. You know, as, as the generations have gone by, I do think that there’s a different approach. You know, think about like listening to stories of your dad, talk about his parents. It’s fucking horrifying. Unbelievable to me.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I would call that abuse.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. It’s, it’s like, like, Like listening to him tell stories, it’s just jaw dropping, you know?

Lesley Logan: And, and that would, that would to like today, that would be considered child abuse. Yeah. But back then, I think that was how every child was raised.

Brad Crowell: But also even just the relationship between his dad and mom.

Oh, it was like, didn’t that there was like it, you know, it was just no love. Fascinating. Yeah. Fascinating to listen to how far things have shifted and, and I think hopefully in a positive way, you know, but, but even my parents didn’t talk about you know, sex, money, religion, politics. They did not talk about it. It just never, you know?

Lesley Logan: Well, you know, I think a lot of people’s relationship with their parents, with their fathers since this is what this episode about, especially, at least in your parents’ generation. My parents’ generation, like my grandmother did work cuz my, my grandfather, my mom’s mom worked because my mom’s dad. Also worked, but he was like blue collar. Like he was in the plants. Y’all, he had a uniform, had his name Jake on it. Pompadour. Right. You know, and like had the same job forever. He fucking retired from the same job. 40 years. And my grandmother did have a job. Also, she also, she was 16 when she had a parent, had a baby. So there’s that. But my dad’s parents, like, that’s a traditional, like American family kids of the fifties and sixties. She didn’t work. She ran the house. Right. And dad, grandpa went to work every single day and he came home, he drank. And he didn’t talk to his kids and they would only talk when they’re hunting.

And if you got lost, you got lost in good luck finding a campsite on your way home. Like, yeah. And so I think like, so that was my dad’s representation of parents. Yeah. So for him to actually be a father that like I truly love and so grateful for. It is shocking.

Brad Crowell: Well, what, what, what, coming back to what Jay was talking about too, and, and like, you know, yes. Your dad, I think would be the, the ideal like, representation of the stoic man. Well, I guess it just is what it is.

Lesley Logan: Totally. And he ended up burning out. He, he was on stress leave from his work for two years, cuz of that.

Brad Crowell: Oh. I didn’t even know. But what, what Jay’s talking about is that, you know, the stoic man, you know, They just accept what’s happening and keep on and they just keep on keeping on. Right? But he said that emotional self-control is something that is actually attractive in us and something that’s expected of us as fathers and men in particular today.And I think you know that, that like the emotional self-control can be like a clamp around them, you know? And so there’s moments where it can be okay to be vulnerable and other times where you do have to keep it together, especially if like there’s a catastrophe happening, someone, you know, like hopefully you can keep your head on.

Lesley Logan: I also think that like, it’s so important for everyone to have outlets. Like, I think it’s so important. Yeah. You know, you were talking with someone in your family about the, the partner need a hobby, you know? And like, and I think like, It is so important that in partnerships there is a place for each person to have the ability to release their emotions. In a vulnerable setting that allows it to go on where, like maybe in front of the children, it’s not appropriate to release those emotions in that moment. You gotta figure out what it is, but also like each person has to have a way of expressing themselves That’s so, and getting to know themselves and what they need. It’s, I think this idea that men should just have it all together is so weird. It’s so weird to me because like women also are expected to have it all together in like certain places and it’s just, I think what’s happening is like, people are just not being honest with themselves about how they’re feeling, what they’re feeling, and they don’t have people to go to. And you know, you and I have best friends that we are best friends, but we also have best friends that are not this you and I, because you have to have other people. You cannot be 100% of everything I ever needed in this world. You know, back when there was tribes, like there was the partner, but then there was the women’s group who did this and there was this over here. And like, that’s important so that each, each person can like express how they’re feeling without putting pressure on the other person to like have it, like hold it all together. Yeah. And I, I think, you know, with the hobbies and stuff, like I think about sports and, you know, playing whatever, just like that kind of a thing is a way to release that energy.

But also, honestly, I really would encourage. Communication with your partner. As the way to, to get that information out. And and Jay was hinting it, not hinting it, he straight up said, you know, it’s important for men to understand how to communicate what is going on inside them, to be tuned in to what is happening inside them, and to be able to express that meaningfully. And, you know, not in like anger, but actually have a discussion about it. And, and you know, I mean, I, I know that my first relationship I blame a lot of it exploding due to poor communication. Poor communication when were dating, poor communication when we were, you know, moving poor communication when we were together.

And, you know, unfortunately it’s, it takes two to tango. So it was, you know, both of us not, not really figuring that out. And when. That was like my ultimate decision at the end was like, how come this all blew up? Why the expectations weren’t met? Well, why weren’t the expectations weren’t met? Is because they weren’t communicated very well. And I think that, you know, when, when it comes to this stuff, especially the stoic man, it creates, you know, a ticking time bomb of a person. You know, that eventually is something’s gonna snap, you know? So that communication is key.

I love it. Yeah. All right. It goes back to those five fucking questions.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, hopefully you can …(Lesley: and other things.) Yeah. I mean, if you’re still asking five questions of your partner, then

Lesley Logan: Yeah, I mean, it’s so hard you guys, this is, this is why there are therapists in this world and there are groups and. And it’s not easy to be an, an adult in a new city.

It’s not easy to, you know, like, it’s so funny to me. My grandparents, my mom’s parents were married for I guess 58 years. …(Brad: Wow). 58 years. Yeah. Yeah. That’s how my, I think that’s how my mom was when my grandma passed.

Brad Crowell: Oh, your your mom’s

Lesley Logan: My mom’s parents. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And

Brad Crowell: Right cuz they got married at 16 and 17 or something.

Lesley Logan: And what is their, what? How we asked ’em how did you stay married? And they said, we don’t count the first nine years. Yeah. And it’s cuz they tried to divorce each other and it didn’t work out right, because it cost money. So at any rate I like, what’s so crazy is like back in the day, like you just didn’t get divorced. You just like sucked it up, right? You just kept it in and you just kept going. …(Brad: Talk about the stoic man) and like talk about stoic everything. And it’s so interesting because like I was just reading the Be It Instagram and like some people were sharing the shame they had at divorcing at 30, yeah. From the episode we had with Renee Bauer. And it’s so funny to me cuz I’m like, how cool did we get? How cool is that we have to live in a world where you go, Ooh, this person, no, this person does not bring out the best in me. I did not bring out the best in them.

Brad Crowell: I mean, I’ll tell you what, what the, when my, when my ex and I, when it was all going downhill in my mind I kept tell, asking the question like why did I ever get married in the first place?

Which was shocking to me cause I always wanted to be married and then I didn’t think that divorce was an option because in my family, you don’t get divorced. So I was like, I guess this is life now. And I will figure it out. I don’t fucking know, but it, but I was literally resigned to that and I was like, all right, I guess this is gonna be what it’s gonna be.

Mm-hmm. And I’m really happy that my ex was t he one who was like, I’m not okay with that. We’re done. Because if it had been my decision, we will probably have suffered.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And so like thank, I mean like thank God for that, for her. But also like that those experiences like help us all. Like if you can actually learn from the experiences that you didn’t enjoy in your past, I think they all come down to listening to other people and communicating your needs. Anyways, we have Be It action items.

Brad Crowell: We do.

All right, so finally let’s talk about those, Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Jay Twining? All right. He said he had three questions that were the three core steps. He said, success leaves clues. And the first step is research. Right? So whatever, whatever it is that you’re going after with your career or your goals or your life or whatever he said, you need to research it. And then the second is you need to practice it. And then the third is that you have to evaluate whether or not you still like it.

So let’s dig into each of those. So, He talked about research. He did a bunch of research and he was reading a lot of books, blogs. He talked about his old mentor and then he said, if you know, or someone who is a mentor of his said, if you want to be an investor, then you have to do what investors do.

You have to read the financial reports every day. So if your goal is to be a blogger or a podcaster or a pilates teacher or a mom, or I don’t know, whatever it is, then you gotta dive in. So you gotta actually learn about that thing, right? He said, for example, Warren Buffet reads the investor, he reads the financial reports every single day.

So if you wanna do the thing. Do the work every single day.

Lesley Logan: That is definitely being until you see it. Yeah. Yeah. So the other two are apply and practice, which this is like the I’m in, I’m in. So apply and practice. So like for ex example, you, if you wanna invest, you gotta to like apply what you’re learning and do that, and then you have to evaluate it.

So you actually have to like, Look back and go, how did that feel? Do I like it? What worked? What didn’t work? And then ask yourself if you wanna keep trying it. So if you don’t, if investing doesn’t like light your fire.

Brad Crowell: Oh, it’s not necessarily about investing. This is whatever your goal is.

Lesley Logan: Whatever your goals. So for example, you might, and I use jeans a lot because everybody buys jeans. You might think that you want high wasted skinny jeans, and you are like, yep, this is what I want. But you gotta go research like, okay, where are the highways and skinny jeans at? Where can I buy these? Where’s the price point that I’m willing to do?

Then you have to go and try them on, and then you actually have to evaluate, do I like how these feel on my body? Do I like this? I know Jay’s probably like, this is nothing to do with fatherhood. I know, bu I’m, but, but this is like a way to picture yourself, like taking the research, applying and, and practicing it, and you just like go, okay, how does this feel? How does this make me feel? Do I like how I feel? And then you can make your changes. You can actually return shit that you don’t like, and then you can go off and do another thing. Maybe in the meantime someone was like, Hey, I think these would look good on you. And you go, whoa, I think I like this. But then you still have to apply, practice and evaluate.

Brad Crowell: So yeah, another good example is that my sister. went to school for biology and wanted to become a, a pa, a physician’s assistant. And she’s like, oh, did, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna, I’m in on this. And she went to, to undergrad and, you know, she made, she had a lot of fun playing soccer there as well. And she went and did this, this biology degree. In undergrad and in order to become a pa you have to have, you know, a couple thousand hours of experience working in a hospital before they even let you in the program. So she was like, all right. So she went and started working in the ER at a hospital near where we grew up and hated it. Absolutely hated it and had the willingness to say, this is not for me. I need to figure something else out. And then you know, ended up finding. A love of project management when she went to work for another company in the field of soccer and and that’s now, now she’s doing that with us. Now she’s doing that and she loves it.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah. So I love this. I thought these Be It Action Items are really easy to apply no matter, no matter who you are in this world, father or not. Yeah. So I thank you, Jay, for being an incredible human, and I love what you’re doing. And if you have fathers in your life, go send ’em to the Feel Good Fatherhood. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell: And I’m Brad crowell.

Lesley Logan: Thank you so much for being here. Thanks so much for listening to this and asking your questions. If you are getting the Be It Pod in emails every single Thursday, there’s an easy way to submit the questions you want us to answer on that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell: Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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