INTRODUCTION

Lesley Logan 0:00
Hi, Be It listener. Holy frickin moly! Get your notes out and if you’re driving, you are just going to listen and want to come back … you’re going to come back. This is an episode you will 100%, 100% save. I’ve Jenny Schatzle y’all here. And when I tell you like girl crush, like fucking girl crush. I met her before any of us knew what was going on with the world. And I was at this incredible event by Erica Hood, who was also a podcast guest. Brad will tell you what the episode was. But she had wrapped your womanhood as an event and it was just women supporting women. And Jenny Schatzle came up to me and she introduced herself and she told me what she was doing. And she’s like, “I’m changing the conversation.” I was like, like, I like the the boldness that was in her, the confidence that it was in her like, and when I say this, like, there was not an ounce of me that doubted that that’s exactly what she was doing. And I, at the time I was living in LA and that is, like that’s a city where you can kind of see like, people are saying what they’re doing, but you like, “Are really doing that?” They’re like this one was doing it. And she sat up there and at the panel, and I knew exactly why she was invited, I knew exactly what she was doing. And I just was like, “I’ve got to be friends with her.” And then of course, you know, as the world shut down, and I had had pivot everything in our businesses, I just kept following her and kept commenting our stuff, kept staying in touch with her, kept laughing at her videos, and I share all that because sometimes like you are inspired by someone and one, they might you might be inspiring the right back but two, their when someone is working so hard at something, you got to support them. You, I’m telling you, you got to support them because a) it makes you feel freakin good that you’re doing it, b) it makes them realize that they are they are making a point, they are making sense, they are getting their word out. And it and when they are doing something that’s so powerful, it it rubs off on you. And I know for a fact that so many of the things she has said, so many things she’s done. They’ve hit me on days when I’ve had we’ll be talking about like bad body days. Some of her points have hit me on bad body days. And I’m like, “Oh, Les, remember who you are. Remember what you’re doing. Remember why you’re doing this.” And I don’t want to keep talking because I do want you to get into this episode. Our conversation is just, it’s just really amazing. But it is if you are someone who ever has bad body days, this is literally for you. Re listen to it as many times as you need. Her BE IT action items are freaking awesome. There are so many quotes in here. I, my team is going to have to quote them all. (Lesley laughs) So that she can have them but also so that we can remind you whenever we need to that you got to stop outsourcing your frickin good days and bad days of the scale. And this one, this woman is on a mission to change the conversation. She really really truly is. She lives it. She breathes it. And you’re going to get that on this episode. So after this brief message, here’s Jenny.

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Lesley Logan 3:11
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan 3:56
Alright, Be It listeners. I have the one and only Jenny Schatzle here. I met this woman she is fire. Okay, so when she actually when I let her talk, she was just going to blow your mind. I couldn’t take my eyes off of her, my ears off of her. I really fell in love with her. I met her like two weeks before. Everything changed in everyone’s world. And she has just been fired to watch makes me laugh on her Instagram. She inspires me and I had to get her here on the podcast for all of you. So Jenny, can you tell everyone who you are? What you’re doing? What you’re like so fired up about?

Jenny Schatzle 4:29
Oh, first of all, thank you for having me. It’s so fun just being here with you, and all your listeners. My name is Jenny Schatzle and I am here to help women change the conversation on body image, confidence and movement. So, I think we’re about to have a really impactful, powerful conversation and I can’t wait.

Lesley Logan 4:47
I am so excited. So I would love for you to share like how did this come about? Is it when you had daughters? Were you thinking about doing this before? By the way your kids make me laugh so much and so or was it something that like had been part of your, your drive for many, many years.

Jenny Schatzle 5:06
So I, yes, I own a gym in Santa Barbara, California. I have been in the fitness industry for over 20 years. And what I just realized was I did all the things you were supposed to do, I gave people restrictive diets, I weighed them in, I did measurements, I did before and afters, I did them for myself, myself, pretty much my entire life. I grew up very much in a diet binge, not only family cycle, but life cycle. And, and I just got to this point where I realized it wasn’t sustainable. It wasn’t making me happy, and the continual conversation of when I do this, so like, when I lose the weight, then I’ll have more energy. When I have a flat stomach, then I’ll be happy. When I fit in this size four pant, then my life will start. And even when I was at my fitness, my goal weight, my low body fat, I never realized it because it was never good enough. And so I had this aha moment. And, you know, luckily it was before I had children, and then I was blessed with twins. And not only twins, but girl twins. So I have two little girls, Hope and Haven. And my movement really, you know, I thought, “God, we really need to change this for the younger generation.” But here’s the stopping point. We cannot change it for them, unless we’re changing it for ourselves. And I really believe not only women, but moms, you know, it’s like we are, I don’t care what anybody says “we’re the head of the household.” You know, we are we are doing all the things, but we are the ones also saying all the things. So this message that we have about our bodies, about food, about our own self worth, is so ingrained in us that we don’t even realize how toxic it is because we’ve been saying it for so long. So (Lesley: 100%) ya know, I always ask everybody like, “Where, you know, think about where do you start the change? It’s got to start with the conversation, the conversation we have with ourselves, and the conversation we have with each other.”

Lesley Logan 7:09
Yeah, I mean, like, I think back to my entire childhood, because my grandmother was very large. She always has been and she like the the thing she would always say is like like they should never have taken her off fen-phen because it was the best thing that worked and like (Jenny: Oh) that. Like I grew up as a junior high kid knowing what Fen-Phen was, knowing what Weight Watchers all those things. And so I remember, I remember this like, like, probably seven years ago, six years I was with my husband, we were in Joshua Tree going to the grocery store, and there was a woman. And she was wearing a t shirt as a dress. And she walked with such confident and she had cellulite and tiger marks, all the stuff. And I looked at her and I thought, “I don’t walk with that much confidence.” And I was like, “What is my deal?” Like, it was like this weird outer body experience. And that’s when I realized we’re going, I, I am I’m like, I’m also doing the whole watching what I eat, like the conversation I have with myself. And I was like, “I’m if I’m not happy in this body, when am I gonna be happy. So look at her. She’s happy. Like, she looks great. She’s walking with con… she looks amazing. I’m over here, like thinking my jeans are too tight,” you know. And so I like I really love what you’re talking about because it’s true. I don’t have kids, but like the things that I say even as a trainer for my clients, you know, like, if I can’t be positive about my own body and the conversation I have myself, I can’t help them stop that conversation in the studio, cannot, you know, so it really does expand. How… And I just had a girl here at my house this weekend and she mentioned that her daughter goes around to saying, “I’m busy.” Because like her daughter hears her say the mom says, “I’m busy all the time.” (Jenny: Yeah) So the daughter’s like, “I’m busy. Can’t do that. I’m busy.” And so you’re right, the kid, our kids do pick up on everything we say. So what how did that, how do you change that though? You’re a gym owner, and people expect some sort of like, you know what I mean? Like, this is a struggle that (Jenny: Yeah) I see like, I have clients all the time who come to me who lose weight. And I literally say, “I actually am not a nutritionist, and that’s not something I can focus on with you. Here’s what I can do.” You know, so is that what you did? Or like, how did you have like change the conversation at your gym?

Jenny Schatzle 9:11
Yeah, and it was difficult. And I still have people you know, people want to get weighed and people want and it’s a huge selling point, it was for us. And so if you want to get in, they want to do measurements, they want to do before and afters. But when you really get into the conversation, and you keep asking, “why.” Like, “Why? Why does that why does that matter? Oh, when you get to this point, well who…” The whole part of this conversation is getting to the root of like, where this started and why we think this way, right? So who told you that being 140 pounds was exactly where you’re supposed to be? And the weight which you’re supposed to live at and be happy at that. So where who and where did we learn that our body wasn’t good enough? And we have to become aware of, truly I’m going to be honest. It’s not our fault. Like we were not born hating our bodies. And this was a message like you said you saw a woman in this t shirt and she’s rocking it, she’s got say like. Think about most of us grew up seeing magazine covers showing cellulite rolls, and it says, “Look at the celebrity gone wrong.” Like it’s, you know, it’s all it’s all of this information always like cellulite, fat rows, getting bigger. This is the worst thing that can happen to a woman. (Lesley: Yeah) That’s the message we received. And so of course, we are think about how much energy and time we spend on a daily basis, worrying about our bodies, what we eat, that’s a lot of energy and it’s a lot of time. And it’s keeping us small, in every single way. And so the problem is, not only are we continuing this conversation we’re passing it on. So if we can start to question like, “Why do I have to have a scale that I have to weigh myself every morning to determine if I’m going to have a good or a bad day.” Like (Lesley: Yeah) my day, and I’ve lived with this. So this is my truth. Like, I used to start every day by getting on the scale in the bathroom. And if I was heavy, right gained a couple pounds, that means I’m at the gym, I’m probably going to wear a sweatshirt, maybe I’m going to do two or three classes, like I’m doing everything I can to undo what has just happened. If …

Lesley Logan 11:09
Right. Which could have been like you had pasta the night before, and how … (Jenny: 100%) Like it could be like you’re about to have your period. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 11:18
A 100%. The messages we received as women should have been, your body is going to change. (Lesley: Yeah) On it probably for a lot of us on a daily basis. But on a weekly basis, like we are never, we’re not the same way all the time. And when we put so much value in this number on the scale. Like think about your funeral. People, if you got to look, if you got to listen in on your funeral, people are not going to sit there and be like, “Wow, she was so thin. I’m really proud of her for losing the body or the baby weight. I’m really, you know, like good for her for not eating sugar and really sticking to that diet.” Like those things are not important. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And here’s where it gets a little like, you know, people say, “Oh, you’re anti diet, anti diet, diet culture.” I don’t like to be, “Yes, I am.” I don’t like to be anti anything, because I think it puts people’s walls up. But we have to come from a place of like realizing we’ve got to redefine what the definition of health is. (Lesley: Yeah) So there’s this, there’s a line between health and obsession, because obsession is not health. So for me growing up in the name of health, I cut entire food groups out and obsessed about not eating them. I worked out way harder than I probably should have. I actually took me out of living my life, I didn’t enjoy eating because I was so obsessed about what I was eating or what I shouldn’t be eating or how I was going to make it up or tomorrow I can start cleansing so that I can binge. And it was just this vicious cycle. But in my mind, I was being healthy. (Lesley: Yeah) So I tell people, it’s like a good example, for me to be 20 pounds lighter than I am now takes me out of living my life. And (Lesley: Yeah) to me that’s not health. So it’s people were always looking for like, “Oh yeah, you shouldn’t eat like, you shouldn’t eat dairy, you should eat carbs.” If we all ate the same and worked out the same, we would still have different bodies. (Lesley: Right) So why are we convinced that something that worked for your friend is gonna work for you? But also your friend has a different body. And is that sustainable? Like, yeah, we can all lose weight but is it sustainable? And is it going to keep you enjoying your life? This is where the line of like, what is healthy and what is obsession? We need to we need to clear that up.

Lesley Logan 13:31
Yeah, so with like, what are some signs that like, I mean, to you and I it might be a little obvious and maybe some of the listeners would know but like just in case someone doesn’t know what obsession looks like? Can you think of some of the clients you’ve had or even your own experience that like signs of like obsession around? What is healthy even though it like you said it in the name of health we do these obsessive things? What what have those look like for some people?

Jenny Schatzle 13:57
So what I like to tell people is truly trying to change the conversation and your mindset about working out. Right? Like, and I know we all see these means like, you know, workout should be for your health and not about food or but it’s actually like you always say putting it into action because that’s how we get clarity, right. That’s how we that’s how we go towards our purpose is by doing action. So thinking like, working out and obsession is I have to get X amount of miles, I have to burn X amount of calories. I have to work out for at least 45 minutes, like we need to redefine. I always tell people, you should try to move every day intentionally. And so that needs to change and what that means like for me some days, I’ve got twins, my husband is a firefighter. He’s gone all the time. I own a business like I own a gym, and I can’t make it to the gym every day. So for me sometimes that’s intentionally going to do 10 minutes of walking around the block, doing a 10 minute YouTube video, stretching like intentionally moving sometimes it’s 20 minutes, sometimes it’s an hour so not having so much pressure to do X amount, it’s like, “Oh, yeah, I’m going to move for 10 minutes because one, this is all I have today. And two, this is going to change my energy, my attitude and my mood.” So (Lesley: Yeah) people always ask, “How do you find joy in movement?” It’s when you stop using it as a weight loss tool. And how your cha… body changes is just what’s going to happen. But don’t make that the focus because when we change the conversation about working out, it’s like, “Oh, yeah, I’m going to do this, because I’m actually feeling very stuck, paralyzed, crabby, I’m yelling at my kids.” When you physically move your body, you physically move your thoughts and your energy and your mind. So when you start moving for the right reasons, it becomes enjoyable and you want to do it.

Lesley Logan 15:42
You are 100% correct. Like I talked a lot about how habits are built, and because our habits just become our routines. And I studied with BJ Fogg. So it’s like, you’re not you’re ditching the 21 days, it’s actually all about emotion. And so it’s like you just said, the joy in movement. If you’re wanting to make intentional movement, something that is easier to do, you actually have to bring positive emotions around the thing. Because when you bring shame, of course, you don’t want to move. Of course, your brain is like, “That doesn’t make me feel good. Why would I remember to do that?” And I am, so I really love that you said and I also, I love that you’re honest about like, the 10 minutes, because sometimes that’s all I can do. When we had 25 women here, every morning, I couldn’t do my normal routine, which I do for me, it makes me feel really good. And some days it changes. Some days, it’s breath work with a walk. Some days, it’s a run, and I get to actually get my studio. But um, but all I did was like all I have is 10 minutes, I’m gonna run the dog around the block. So we’re gonna maximize our 10 minutes, and we’re gonna get those dopamine up and I can walk in with a smile on my face. And it is true we have I really think like, for me, the moment I stopped going, I had to my my Pilates session has to be 55 minutes because the gym says all workouts are 55 minutes. And I’m like, “I think they did that for payroll. I’m pretty sure there’s no science behind the hour long workout.” (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 17:03
There’s no science … There’s no science around a lot of things like I’m just gonna interupt right there, (Lesley: Yeah) like the BMI, right? Actually, a lot of things that are happening and coming out now, even going to the doctor for a lot of women is very, it’s it’s scary. It’s, you know, a lot of my body stuff started when I was 10 years old. And I went to the doctor and he said, “Look at this chart on the wall, and according to your height and your weight, you are fat on the borderline of obese.” And I was just like a kid growing, going through my stuff like I was in no, but it was at that moment. I learned. “Oh, yeah. Okay, stop. Oh, wait, this is this is bad.” Like being fat is bad. This is not healthy. This is and I was not an obese child. I was, you know, again, going through it what every girl, boy does. And then it’s at that point, I started seeing the magazines, then noticing, “Oh, my family. Oh, my mom’s eating SnackWell cook. And this whole like kind of diet? Oh, your body is not good. This is not where you’re supposed to be.” And you know, when we’re talking about changing the conversation on movement that also goes into food, like what are we obsessing about? Right? So when just like you said, I mean, you’re a Pilates instructor and can’t always like this, people need to remember even these people that are telling you what to do, or we’re living this too. Right? And for a lot of us that grew up in the fitness industry. This was just what you were supposed to do. You know, X amount this is these are all the lessons I learned. And this is how you’re supposed to eat. And so changing the conversation of really realizing how we talk about food is so important. It’s like labeling food, good and bad. That’s we need to really discourage people to do that. Like that’s not a thing. We shouldn’t be doing that anymore. Because you just said with a shame around working out like, “Oh, I didn’t get this in, or oh, I should have done that.” Shame and guilt is one of the biggest thing that keeps us in our toxic food cycles. So when we eat something, it’s not the donut. It’s actually the guilt and shame you have around that donut, that’s probably going to make you eat five more and then think, “Okay, I just binge. Now I’m going to get back on it.” Where if you just had a doughnut and moved on, but it’s not that simple. Because we have to go back and heal this relationship that we have with food in our body in order to move forward from it like, “Oh, yeah, this started very young. This started when my mom either told me my belly was big, or I saw her tell herself, her thighs were big.” So I always believe our parents did the best they could with what they knew. But a lot of us grew up watching our mom, disliking her body or commenting on our body or commenting on other people’s bodies. And that’s where internally we got this message that, “Oh yeah, a thin body is the right body. A thin body is the body you’re supposed to have and a thin body is successful.” I’m going to tell you, when I was at my thinnest, I was mentally my most miserable. (Lesley: Yeah) And again, that is in health. So the food thing is such a it’s it’s so hard to because it’s everywhere.

Lesley Logan 20:02
Right? (Jenny: Right. But we …) And we need to sustain life like you have to actually.

Jenny Schatzle 20:06
And you needed to sustain life. Like I’m nine years sober. I don’t need alcohol to sustain life. Right? And so I quit drinking, because I got to my breaking point. And that’s a whole other podcast. But we I quit drinking and then it was my actually, my food and body stuff really came up. That’s when I was like, “Oh, here we go. This is another thing because I didn’t have alcohol to numb me out any more than I had food (Lesley: Yeah) than I had working out.” So it’s all they’re all connected, whether it’s alcohol, food, shopping, people pleasing, pill popping, it’s (Lesley: Yeah) all a way to numb out.

Lesley Logan 20:38
Yeah, I just (Jenny: And so …) wanted I heard the other day someone bring up like a way of control as people pleasing. And I never thought about that way. So those of you didn’t hear that, you have to hear that, like it’s a that kind of thing. It’s all it’s all mixed up in there. And we have and people pleasing is also, I think, a lot of reasons why people are still trying to be a certain size, because they think people will like them. They’ll get things like that they want done. And I have to say like most of the people that I admire, respect and learn from are not obsessing about food. (Lesley laughs) They’re not, they’re just not because they don’t have the time. I don’t know, they don’t have the time to think about that.

Jenny Schatzle 21:15
Yeah, and you know, truly it is, again, a lot of this. I can I can speak on this, because this was my life. And a lot of a lot of this, it may sound harsh, and it may be like, “Yeah, that’s great but how do you get there?” You have to first realize that, honestly, it’s not your fault. Like, (Lesley: Yeah) a lot of the issues we have with food in our bodies are what we grew up. It’s what we learned watching, is what we were told it’s what, it might not have been our parents, it might have been a kid on a playground like, and it’s just stuck with us. But we have to really internalize like, we have to question that, “Who said that? You know, why why am I allowing them to tell me, this is the way I should look, this is the way.” And so changing the conversation around food when you’re talking about control, like dieting is a control. So when we feel we all have bad body days. Like, “I am completely on this.” Like, “I don’t diet anymore. I still have bad body days.” And then when that happens, I immediately think because it’s so ingrained, like, “Oh, maybe I maybe I should juice. Maybe I shouldn’t eat that.” And it’s like, “Oh, yeah, wait a minute. That’s what’s ingrained in me. That’s not who I want to be anymore.” So I can hear that thought but I don’t have to follow that thought. And so I get to say like, “Oh, yeah, that’s old programming.” And I’m going to just I need to sit in this that I’m, I’m feeling vague. today. I’m having an off day, I’m okay. What can I do? I could go walk. I could journal I could, you know, dieting is the first thing we go to when we’re having a bad body image. Because it’s a way we can control things. But it’s also like when your life feels out of control when your kids when your relationship, we go to food because we don’t want to look at all that other stuff. And so it’s a really, it’s a way for us, like I get back on track. I can control this, but we know, one, it’s not sustainable. Cutting out entire food groups, in any kind of restriction leads to binging period. (Lesley: Yeah) And that is where also that obsession comes in. It’s like if I tell you you can’t have carbohydrates. Yeah, it might last, you know, I don’t know, a few days, a few weeks. I don’t know how to bake it yet. But it’s, you know, it doesn’t last we all do like, you know, if you’re on a 21 days, or 30 days of something, what happens on day 31?

Lesley Logan 23:21
Right? You just go party. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 23:23
You just go party! Like literally, I was with a group of women. And this woman said, “Oh, we just did a clean eating challenge.” First of all, food isn’t dirty. Like we even that it’s just these little things that we learn that’s like, “Oh, yeah, like, when we labeled food clean, I’m gonna clean, I’m eating clean.” It’s good or bad, we’re actually giving the power to food. (Lesley: Yeah) So it’s up to us to take that back. Like, food is not in charge of my life. We and for so long food was in charge of my life. And that that’s not what we should be living. So taking your power back by it’s, it’s not good or bad. It’s just food. (Lesley: Totally) Right? So and we just, it’s just food and like, yeah, you’re gonna eat bread, you’re gonna eat dessert. But when we give it the power is when the guilt and the shame come up. But I was just with a group of women. And the woman said, “Oh, we just did this 30 day clean, I feel great.” And then her friend goes, “Oh, what do you do when it was over? And you go eat a burger and get drunk?” And it’s like, “Oh, do you guys hear that?” Right? And it’s not a judgement, but it’s just like, “Oh, did you hear what you just said?” But again, that’s how we lived for so long. So a huge part of changing the conversation is becoming aware of the conversation. And I think, you know, we’ve hit working out, we’ve hit food, but it’s also like, how are we talking about those things not only with ourselves, but with our friends?

Lesley Logan 24:37
Yep. Yeah, that’s, that’s really important. I think like you said awareness and I think that’s exactly where people can start. Right? Like, if you’re if once you become aware that you’re having those thoughts that you’re using it as control or you’re you’re labeling it. We have Lena Franklin on, she’s amazing. She said she was doing this whole thing and she’s like, “First become aware and then you become enlightened.” And then I was like, “I’m so sorry, can you tell what enlightenment is? Because I don’t have time to sit on a hill in India and meditate for my for a week.” So she’s like, she said, “Oh, no, once you’re aware, you are, in fact enlightened.” And I was like, “Oh, well, then I can get enlightened all day long. I can be aware all day long.” And so I think that’s like, you know, you said journaling. And I think a lot of times we you’re right, we do want to, we don’t want to actually deal with ourselves when actually, like, want to become aware of the thoughts, because then we have to actually do something about it. But journaling is a one way to just like, it’s a very easy way to just like put the thoughts out, I do morning pages, and you don’t have to read them, you can actually just write them and never read them again. And so I think even just like getting those things out, it allows the change to start happening because you’re aware of the conversation in your own head.

Jenny Schatzle 25:50
Part of that, like, I’m huge, you know, from my Instagram, I’m huge on journaling. I’m huge on like, five minutes, same thing. I do every morning. I don’t read them, I you can do whatever you want with your notebooks. But here’s also with women. Whenever I post about journaling, people always message and ask, “Well, what should I write about? How should I do it? Wait, where do you put your…” Like, it’s the perfection like, (Lesley: Yeah) we all the you know, you talk a lot about this, it’s action is what creates clarity. But for us, we paralyze, we are paralyzed, and we stop ourselves because we all want to do it right. And these are the rules have been following our whole lives. Like, you’ve got to eat this way, you have to work out this way. You have to here’s your journal topic with your perfect punctuation. Like, when I write, there’s no grammar. Sometimes you can’t even read the ending. Like, it’s literally, but we have to also get the point, get through the point of just doing it, like stop trying to do everything right. Just do it, just move, any movement is good movement, journaling is movement. Right? Like and that’s about changing the conversation of stopping yourself and thinking, “What is the next thing I can do? That’s going to help me move forward.” So I love when you said, you know, it’s awareness and enlightenment, I love that. So my I guess you could put my enlightenment is, and I just said it a couple minutes ago is, so you have awareness around this. Like, for instance, I always say this, too. This is sounds harsh, but when we judge other people’s bodies, and we all know this, when we judge other people, you know, it’s our own stuff. But only people with body issues, judge other people’s bodies. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And that’s just true. And so as somebody who has body issues, I can say that. And so when you’re judging somebody else, whether it’s their body, whether it’s what they’re wearing, whether it’s what they’re doing, because these things come up, we are humans, and we are going to judge, right. If somebody says, “Well, I don’t judge.” Yes, okay, this is what we do. But the enlightenment part is having awareness of all that thought comes up, and then stopping yourself and saying, because the first thought we, the first thought we think, is what has been ingrained in us. The second is who we want to be. So I catch myself when I’m judging someone else, or when I’m harshly judging myself. And I think, “Oh, there’s that voice.” And then I think, “Oh, yeah, that is not who I want to be. Like why is it my business? Why do I care what she’s wearing? Why do I care what her buy? Oh, that’s my stuff.” Okay, move on. And so, like not getting guilt and shame around us judging other people or judging ourselves, but stopping ourselves instead and remind me, “Oh, yeah, that’s old programming. That’s not who I want to be. And that’s not what I want to pass on to not only my children, but the other women around me,” which is such a huge part of this. So again, I was a great example. I was with a woman this weekend. And this woman was she was randomly talking about her peloton and she loves it. And she’s, like, “So good at it.” And so she said, “I was talking to my friend, and my friend said, I don’t think your bike is calibrated, right? Because you are like, you know, so good.” And she goes, Well, “I’m, I’m a big lady. Like, I’m …” And she’s telling me this, and she uses the word “big.” And I thought she was gonna say it’s because she’s so strong, right? And (Lesley: Right) she has it. She goes, “What I was telling her I was, I’m just a big lady. I’m just way bigger than you.” And then wait, I didn’t say anything. And we kind of continue the conversation. And then she, we started talking about like, things that people said to us when young, when we were younger, and she goes, “Yeah, you know, a lot of my body stuffs, ten stems from being called big.” And so I stopped and I said, “Do you realize that when you were telling me the story about you on the Peloton, you kept saying you’re a big woman.” And she did not even realize she was calling herself big. (Lesley: Yeah) And I said, “I, I thought you were going to stay strong.” So another part of this and I talked about this in my, my TED Talk is, and she brought this up. A lot of times we say things because we think people are thinking it about us. Right? So like if we’ve gained weight and we’re going to be around friends and we’re we’re like afraid that they’re gonna think we’ve gained weight. We might say it before anybody else does. (Lesley: Right) Because this to let them know, we know. Right? (Lesley: Yeah) She said that. She’s like, “Well, I am a big woman and I know people think that about me. And so I want them to know that I know I’m big.” And I stopped her right there. And I said, “When you were telling that story, I thought you were gonna say strong, because in my eyes, your strong ass woman, and so yeah, you probably do put in whatever you’re doing.” And she’s like, “Oh.” I said, “You said, ‘they’, I wasn’t thinking that.” (Lesley: Yeah) And so we, we, we already put in our minds what other people are thinking about our bodies. Which one, they might not be (Lesley: Right) and two, who cares if they are? Like, why are we, why are we living our lives based on what other people think of our bodies, and most of the time, those people aren’t happy in their bodies.

Lesley Logan 30:39
Right. And so we’re all just like wandering around trying to make other people happy about our bodies, and they’re so focused on their own unhappiness with their body, they’re not even paying attention to you. (Lesley laughs) It is, (Jenny: Yes) it is like it is this in… And all of this is keeping us from doing anything that is actually purposeful on this planet, like we are (Jenny: Yeah) all here to do something like we wouldn’t be made if we didn’t have something to add to the, to the universe and to what’s going on. And I just it’s really frustrating. I love that you pointed out it was much earlier in the conversation we’ve had other people bring this up that we you know, we outsource the good and bad days, we outsource our worth when we get on a scale. And like the, the truth is, is that like, you can’t like, it’s like how do you, how can you like, actually tackle these amazing things that you want to do in life? And then you’re like, “I’m gonna get on scale. I’m having a bad day. Can’t do those things now.” It’s like so crazy to me. And if it hurts me and I and the perfectionist thing with the journaling, okay, so full disclosure, I was that girl with my therapist, April, March in March 2020. She’s like, “You need a journal.” I was like, “No problem. I got journals.” So we come back the next thing I said, “Okay, so I’m so sorry.” Is there like a prompt I’m supposed to be answering like, “What am I supposed to write? What like, what, what am I supposed to be writing on this page? Like, what do I do here?” And she’s like, “Okay, you don’t need to read the book Artist’s Way because I’m just full permission guilt, just be a perfectionist about it. So just go write three pages and don’t read them.” And I was like, “Okay, so I have …” And I, it’s so funny because I’ll you know, like, attracts like, so the person that I am the recovering perfectionist and overachiever, I attract all these people. And they’re like, “Okay, so how do I journal?” And so I laugh because I’m like, “Yep, I know.” It’s like this thing we all want to be right. And we want to have the right body, which, who knows what that is. (Jenny: Yeah) And, and we want to journal correctly. And it’s like, just write something and you don’t have to be able to reread it. Like, people are like, “Oh, I saved my journal. So I can read them someday.” And I’m like, “Really?” I don’t think so. I think I just, it’s okay. (Jenny: Yeah) It’s gonna be fine if I don’t remember what I wrote down last year. (Lesley laughs)

Jenny Schatzle 32:42
I like to say too, um, because yeah, it’s an if you like to keep a memory of it. Do it. If you don’t, don’t. And it’s, it’s truly like, the journaling part is truly about literally, I always say, like, throw up all your words on paper, like, release all the thoughts in your brain out. Like, it could be positive negative credit, like, just, it’s a way to just release. (Lesley: Mm-hmm) And yeah, but again, it’s control. And this is what (Lesley: Yeah) we do as women.

Lesley Logan 33:08
Yeah. And, uh, you know, in, but like, it’s like a really great way to have this awesome conversation. If you’re really trying to get aware of your thoughts. It is crazy if you just dream, right? If you just read it out. I, I was like, “Oh, I’m afraid of bah, bah, bah.” I didn’t even know that. Like, it wasn’t even I mean, I’m obviously new it is in my brain, but like, I didn’t actually have that awareness around it. So it is really, it is a really amazing thing. I wanted to talk about you have two TED Talks. So first of all, like, that’s frickin amazing. And what, where they can find them on the TED, YouTube? Or I’ll put them in the show notes. But like, are they out and about people can rewatch them?

Jenny Schatzle 33:45
They are. Yes. Yeah. You just like Google, Jenny Schatzle TED Talk, and they both come up. And so yeah, it was it… Yes. And it’s kind of all talking about this, and just changing the conversation. And so, you know, my, my whole purpose is just to help women feel good about themselves, (Lesley: Mm-hmm) and show up as their authentic self. Because when we do, we give permission to other women. And so it’s like you so people always say, you know, I love to, your very, like, let’s put this in action, because I’m also like, I am in the self help space. I am also an advocate of there’s only so many books and and I like I read also, I go to the retreats, I do I continue to do the work because we all have to, but at some point, you do have to put it in action. And I met people they just continually like we’ve got to do and I’m all about easy, actionable things we can do every single day. And one of those things is show up in our authentic… as our authentic self, because it gives other people permission. And so let’s start with like, okay, working out and what we wear so trying to heal our body. And again, I say all this stuff. It’s it’s a really hard process. You know, it’s like, you don’t just wake up one day and you’re like, “I don’t diet anymore and I frickin love my body. And my kids are gonna never have issues.” Like, no. Alright, let’s just start there. And so it’s a daily process of unlearning. I like to say we need to learn and relearn. So you have to start questioning, like, “Who did teach me how to hate my body? Why do I feel so uncomfortable in my body? Where did I learn this? What is the messaging that I want to change for myself, so I do not pass this on.” (Lesley: Yeah) So one thing is we have to start by, and I truly believe wearing the clothes that we never thought we could. So for years, I didn’t wear shorts. And I didn’t wear tube tops. Because the two things in my life, my dad always told me, I was built like a linebacker. So I have really broad shoulders and very strong legs. And but for years, I hated my shoulders, I hated my legs. And I never wore shorts. So it’s like, even if you have to start wearing them around the house. (Lesley: Yeah) Right? If you don’t want to wear a swimsuit, outside, start wearing it in your house. We have to start putting on the things that we told ourselves for so long, we couldn’t wear. And even if it’s got to start in your house, every time I feel slightly uncomfortable, I’m going to be honest, it’s really empowering. I have to have that conversation with myself. Like, if I’m going to wear shorts, or you know, something that shows my stomach. And I’m like, “You know what, I’m going out into the world to show other women how to show up as themselves because I’m showing up as myself.” (Lesley: Yeah) And that’s where it needs like, I’m not showing up to look good for anybody else. This is empowering to me, because I need to show up as my authentic self and and love what I have. Because for a long time, I’m going to be honest, most of my life I didn’t. (Lesley: Yeah) And the proof that when we look back, like I think we can all relate to this, we look back at pictures and think, “Oh my God, like I was so thin, or I was so this. And I didn’t even realize that.”

Lesley Logan 36:51
Oh, totally. (Jenny: That’s …) That’s crazy. I mean that’s … (Jenny: That’s proof …) That we weren’t … (Jenny: I’m sorry) but … I’m so sorry. That you were not gonna be happy when you’re leaner.

Jenny Schatzle 37:00
Yes, well, that’s just proof right there. That is, so when we look back at pictures of ourselves and think, “Oh, my God, it was so thin or I was so fat, or I was so this.” I didn’t even realize that’s proof, it’s not about the body. (Lesley: Right) That’s it right there. (Lesley: Yeah) So that’s, you know, that’s one place to start.

Lesley Logan 37:18
Well, I love your honesty there. And it’s true. Like I you know, Facebook is really good at showing me pictures of 10 years ago, and I suffered from some crazy stomach like really bad, like, anytime I ate, I just was in pain, and no one could figure it out. (Jenny: Oh) But what ended up happening is I got thinner, right? Because when you, when you’re barely eating, so your stomach doesn’t hurt, you get thinner. And words of affirmation is my love language. So all of a sudden, I’m getting tons of compliments (Jenny: Yeah) because I lived in LA and I was at a high end gym. And so then people are coming to work out with me because like, “Oh, I want to look like you.” And I’m like, “So I just want you to know like, I barely get to eat anything like this is not healthy.” And but of course that gets in your head because then as soon as my stomach started feel better, I started to gain weight. Why? Because I’m eating nutrition like I’m absorbing food and getting calories in and the thoughts that went through my head were so ridiculous. The conversation I had like, “Oh my God, my clients are gonna leave me because I’ve gained 10 pounds.” (Jenny: Yeah) Never mind that I’m not anorexic looking anymore. And that’s probably looks better. So when I look at those pictures that come up, I’m like, “This is so sad. This is what so many people gave me compliments on, “This girl looks exhausted. She looks tired. She doesn’t she looks weak, doesn’t even look strong, you know.” And like it was it was such an interesting turn of events of my life like I’ve had to because I build the more my stomach feels better, the more weight of gain, I actually really do like how I look, it is very different than I ever thought, it is a very different body than I ever had. But it’s true. I wear crop tops now. I didn’t wear them when I was 118 pounds. (Lesley laughs) I didn’t (Jenny: Yeah) wear them. I was like, “Oh my God, I’m not like there’s all like a role here.” Like, no, I wear them now. And I’m like, “Whatever, it doesn’t even matter.” But I am I film videos and workout videos for a living. And when you do flexion things just roll over. And for whatever reason, it took me a long conversation myself, like you’re just going to have the roll over your pants, and it’s just going to show and people are going to be fine with it. And actually, it is one of the best fucking things that could ever happen because people feel safe in my thing. I had to have a conversation myself, I had to get over it. And some days I bad body days too. And I’m like, “wow, that’s not what I thought that looked like.” But but the truth (Jenny: Yeah) is, is that for most people, they’re like, “Oh, thanks for showing a real body doing movement.”

Jenny Schatzle 39:34
And this conversation is changing, you know, and I want to acknowledge that both of us are in, you know, privileged and according to you know, the world privileged (Jenny: Yeah) leaner bodies. And (Lesley: Yeah) but I think no matter what size, keep women are struggling and (Lesley: Yeah) so in this conversation is changing. And so it’s also up to us to change that conversation. So even as I say this but I mean it in the most loving way is like, we kind of kind of got to call each other out, but in a loving way, like not being mean, like, “Oh, you should say that” because that’s I don’t really that’s how we learn. But really commenting on other people’s bodies is really dangerous. You just said that. And it’s, I mean, I have two little girls. Are you kidding? Of course, I’m gonna be like, “You’re so cute. You’re so be cute. Oh, my God.” Like, I’m trying to even you know, change that conversation. And it’s funny, like Gloria Simon says, you know, the truth will set you free, but first it’s gonna piss you off. And even in the beginning, I’m like, “Ah, now I can’t say people cute, like, what can I say?” But if you really think about it, when we compliment people on their bodies, I had the same situation with a friend, she had cancer and lost 30 pounds. And she came up to me and said, “I can’t believe how many people tell me, I look great. I have cancer. Like, that’s why I lost the weight.” And the other thing to that is when we compliment our friends on their bodies, especially when we make such a huge deal, like, “Oh, my God, what are you doing? Oh, my God, you look so amazing.” A lot of times that change isn’t sustainable. Because change, a body change takes a long time for it to, you know, to sustain. And if you lose a lot of weight, very quickly, it’s not sustainable. So one, you’re getting all this praise for looking so good, which a lot of time it’s taking you out of your life to make this happen. But chances are, you’re gonna gain that weight back. And when you do as the person who was complimented now the stories in your head about next time, you have to go out and see your friends. And if you’ve put on any weight, you are finding anything to wear, you’re depressed, you’re sad, you’re frustrated, you’re all up in your head, because all you’re thinking is, “I put on weight. Now they’re gonna see me differently there.” And so, taking that just like when you see your friends, instead of commenting on their body, even if they’ve lost weight, start by being like, “You know what, I really love being around you. You know what? Your energy is radiant today. You know what that outfit is powerful.” Like just like really authentic things that we mean instead of making it like telling somebody talk about words of affirmation, telling somebody that you missed them and love them and are just in happiness to be around them. That’s a better compliment than “Man, you look thin.”

Lesley Logan 42:13
Yeah, that is, oh my gosh, Jenny, I could talk to you for hours. I really want to but (Lesley laughs) but (Jenny: I feel the same way. I love you so much.) I know. Okay, where can they find you, follow you, watch your reels, your lives? I’m not gonna lie. You’re one with the covered about the women with the filters and the makeup. I watched that three times and showed my husband and and the one with your with your girls were like they had put markers on their face. I was like … (Jenny: Oh, that was a good one.) That was amazing on (Jenny: That was a good one.) photo day. (Jenny: Yeah) Like, you know what? This woman is walking the truth right here. So where can, where can they hang out with you, find you and all the things?

Jenny Schatzle 42:50
I love it. I’m on Instagram and Facebook, I’ll be on and YouTube. But I will be honest, I’m mostly on Instagram. I have like dipped my toe in Tik Tok but I’m also 42 and I’m like, you know, there’s only so much social media I can do. So come to Instagram. And I you know, it is authentically me. I very much posting about real and raw. It’s a lot of mom life. It’s a lot of conversations around body image, but also confidence within women and movement. So I would love for everyone to join me over there. And I do answer my messages. So message me, message me any questions, or (Lesley: Yeah) anything that you want to talk about.

Lesley Logan 43:25
And it’s just @jennyschatzle on Instagram, right? Just… (Jenny: Yes) Yeah. (Jenny: Yeah. Thank you.) Alright, so bold, executable, targeted or intrinsic. You gave us so many. If you were listening, I got you can, you know, go to our show notes. And you can literally highlight half of there’s like a ton of BE IT once. But what are a few, what are a few that you have that people could do to change the conversation with themselves so that they can actually like do their frickin life?

Jenny Schatzle 43:50
I love it. All right, my easy, actionable takeaways. So many things. All right. So we did talk a lot about this, but I’m going to add one more. So one, I would love for everyone to really start changing the conversation around food and themselves. So having the awareness of when it comes up, of when you want to call yourself fat or big or need to get back on it or change that conversation. Be a little gentler with yourself and just realize that that conversation isn’t helping you. Second, the food thing, just really realizing how much you label food, good or bad, healthy, not healthy. You know, clean eating. I mean dirty eating is I want to like not even a thing. Just really try to I’m gonna and this is really hard. Kind to stop talking about food too much. And this is again going to sound harsh, but we are smart, strong, powerful women. We should not be sitting around talking about how much we ate and how much we hate our bodies. We want to see that the table. We’ve got to change the conversation, pull up the chair and make our presence known and we have more important things to talk about than the burrito, and that our pants don’t fit. And so when we change that conversation, we take our power back. And not only do we take our power back, we show other women how to do it. And that’s the conversation and the cycle we pass on. So in order to break the cycle, we have to be aware of what we’re saying, not blame ourselves for it, but choose a different path. So when that awareness comes up, you can decide, “Am I going to continue that conversation? Or am I going to start a new one?” And our last thing is, I am going to invite our friends to journal, without, I call it free writing, you know, you call it more morning pages, whatever we want to call it, but there’s no grammar, there’s no time, you could literally write one page and walk away from it. Um, and along with that is kind of talking about changing the conversation. Give that voice in your head, I think I say this pretty much on every podcast. But this is also how we realize when old programming is coming up. Do me a favor and give that negative voice in your head a name. And so you make it like a almost like a person. So when that voice for me comes up, that’s like, “Oh, Jenny, you know, you’re getting, your thighs are looking big. And you probably shouldn’t wear those shorts. And maybe you should cut back on the food.” And I’m like, “Oh, not today, Tiffany. Not today.” Alright, so I give … and I’m like, “Tiffany, wo… No, I, yeah, I hear you.” And I want to remind people, I don’t think that I don’t think that negative self. And that negative talk ever 100% goes away. But the stronger you get in your healthy self and your healthy voice, that voice gets louder, and it’s able to recognize Tiffany and be like, “Oh, yeah, Tiffany, I hear you. That’s not what we’re choosing today.” And so name that voice, and be able to clarify that Tiffany is not Jenny in 2022.

Lesley Logan 46:59
Yeah. Oh, my goodness. I fucking love you so much, Jenny. (Jenny laughs) (Jenny: I love you too.) Yeah, I love you. So everyone how, you got to tell us how you’re going to use these tips in your life. You’re going to tell us who you named your your voice in your head that is giving you all that old programming by screenshotting this podcast, tagging @jennyschatzle and the @be_it_pod on Instagram and let us know. Alright, until next time, Be It Till You See It.

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Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast! One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram! I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

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Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.