The Science of Fixed

vs Growth Mindset

Ep. 107 ft. Kasey Jo Orvidas

“Knowing that you have control over your mindset, gives you control over everything else in your life.”

Kasey Jo Orvidas

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Kasey holds a Ph.D. in Psychology and is a certified health and fitness coach, her expertise is in mindset and health behavior change. She has transformed hundreds of lives (and minds) in her coaching career, while also being published in multiple peer-reviewed scientific journals for her research exploring the relationship between our mindset and our health and fitness behaviors. After finding so much success within her own online fitness coaching business, she also created an accredited certification program (The Health Mindset Coaching Certification) teaching other coaches how to effectively use the science of mindset and psychology to develop lasting change with their clients.

Show Notes

Research your own mind, constantly question how you can or are growing. It takes more than good thoughts, it’s a purposeful practice that research psychologist, Kasey Jo Orvidas, takes us through to help us live in a growth mindset. If you have been feeling stuck recently or feel like you are doing all the right things but not moving forward, give it a listen! It could be your mind holding you back.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

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In this episode you will learn about:

  •  Research your own mind, listen to the words that circulate your thoughts
  • Imposter syndrome doesn’t have the be a bad thing
  • Growth mindset vs fixed mindset
  • Cultivating the growth mindset
  • The book writing process and the importance of consistency




Lesley Logan 0:00
Hey, Be It listeners. All right, let’s talk about mindset. Not the buzzword, not the like, you know, everything that people are just like, “Oh, we’re gonna do mindset,” we’re actually going to talk about mindset with an expert, a doctor and mindset to be honest. So Kasey Orvidas already, this is our guest today, and I really love this person. I actually Brad talked to me about her and he was in a coaching group that she was speaking in. And he was like, “I think this is something that you would really want to do.” And so I looked at it, read all the stuff got on the waitlist, I was like, the first person, I was like, “I’m in, signed up.” (Lesley laughs) And I really, I really, really enjoyed it because I think sometimes you know, stuff, but you’re like, “Why do I know this? And this is the right thing.” And then and then you’re like, “Oh, look, there’s science behind it.” And so if you’re struggling with your mindset around things, a) this episode is for you, Kasey has definitely got a lot of science behind it. But also like know that I think you’re on the right track. If you’re like aware of a mindset issue that you’re struggling with a fixed mindset or, versus having a growth mindset. Great. Pat yourself on the back, celebrate that you’re like, “Oh, I am aware that I don’t like how I’m am in this area of my life and like I’m thinking about myself or what I’m capable of in this area of my life.” And then please, please, please make sure you’re taking notes. You can also go to the show notes. You’ll see some of the questions she asked herself or she suggested you ask yourself when you’re having these thoughts, because awareness is key and then you can take the next step and you can take some messy action you know how we feel about that. So here is Kasey Jo.

Lesley Logan 1:17
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

Lesley Logan 1:33
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast, where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

Lesley Logan 2:18
All right, Be It listeners. I have a really great friend of mine, I actually got to study with this woman. She is everything you’re going to hear them out as an inspire you and also make you take action and she has really, she’s really the person that has figured out a problem and she’s like, “I’m gonna go actually study this problem. I’m gonna get a degree in this problem. I’m gonna be a little obsessed with this problem.” And I love this so much because I think a lot of times we just think oh, you know, whatever someone else will figure it out. But she went and did it. So Kasey Orvidas. Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you’re up to these days?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 2:51
Yeah, I’m super excited to be here in such a lovely intro. Thank you so much. Um, it’s funny when you say it’s like, I know what this problem is. And I’m gonna study. I’m gonna get a PhD in this problem is essentially what happened. Right? So, yes, my name is Kasey. I am technically I guess Dr. Kasey Orvidas. My PhD is in Psychology. I specifically studied how growth versus fixed mindset plays a role in how healthy we eat, and how often we exercise essentially looking at health behavior change from a mindset lens. Very interesting, because I feel like the word ‘mindset’ has just become such a buzzword and like popular like psych kind of like articles and social media venues and things like that. And there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that. I love that it’s like getting more popular. But at the same time, two people do not realize that there’s an actual science behind this, like when I tell you I literally spent nearly five years researching mindset inside the mindset lab, literally, that’s what it’s called, says it on the door. It’s a very, very, like specific targeted science and lots of evidence based practices around you know, cultivating a growth mindset, ensuring that you’re not cultivating a fixed mindset, especially when it comes to the area that I’ve studied now where I guess the area that I teach in mostly is with health and fitness coaches. So, Lesley, Lesley was in my program, the Health Mindset Coaching Certification and in that program, I essentially walk health and fitness coaches through different aspects of behavior change in psychology and mindset so they can understand the science and evidence based practices but then be able to also like leverage that with their clients and with themselves which honestly was not actually what I had intended for the program but that has been the most consistent feedback is like, “Wow, this is actually really helped me with my mindset,” which is very, very cool to me as well. In addition to the Health Mindset Coaching Certification, I also own a one on one health and fitness coaching business called KJO Coaching and I have five lovely assistant coaches on my team that kind of helped me out with that. And there we’re just like continuing to try to bridge that gap between health and fitness coaching and like psychology, mindset, behavior change type of world. So I am a psychologist and I’m not a clinical psychologist, I’m a research psychologist and everything that I do and teach and practice is not necessarily like therapy or anything like that. But I am trying to blend the worlds of like psychology and health and fitness. And I’m absolutely obsessed with it. As you said.

Lesley Logan 5:13
I think it’s so cool. And so there’s, there’s a few things I definitely want to unpack in there. One, thank you for mentioning that it’s a science because I do think a lot of people just think it’s like part of the, like, it’s out there with the yoga vibe and the breathwork and …

Kasey Jo Orvidas 5:28
Manifestation. Yeah. Mm-hmm

Lesley Logan 5:30
Yeah. And it’s actually like people are studying this, and there’s science behind it. And then, you mentioned cultivating a fixed versus cultivating a growth mindset. And I want to talk about this a little bit, because I think some people might assume that they’re born with the mindset that they have. But the way you say that cultivate it sounds like we are in charge of what we create, and how we think.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 5:53
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Which is funny, because the way that you describe it is sort of what you’re saying. A lot of people think that they’re either born with, like a growth mindset or a fixed mindset. And that like, it’s very meta very fast, because it’s like, that means you have a fixed mindset about your mindset. (Kasey and Lesley laughs) It’s like you actually, like you don’t, you can change your mindset. But yeah, that’s an entire like, could be a podcast in and of itself. (Lesley: It’s like another level effects like you’ve gone really …) (Lesley laughs) Literally exactly went off the deep end there. But with that said, yes, we absolutely do have control over our mindset. And what’s even cooler is that having that control then has downstream effects to like pretty much everything else in our lives, whether it is health and fitness, or careers, our relationships, how we see ourselves, all of it, right. So knowing that you have control over your mindset, you essentially have control over everything else in your life. And that can sometimes be a little bit like overwhelming. And actually, it’s interesting, because we have something called the double edged sword effects in the mindset research that essentially talks about how, as soon as you sort of have come to this place of almost like enlightenment, when it comes to growth mindset, and you realize, like, “Wow, I have control, you know, this is my responsibility. I can change and it’s all up to me.” That can feel a lot like, wow, well, that means you know, the area that I’m in right now, whether that’s like, you’re you’re overweight, you’re in a job that you hate, you’re constantly going like, from toxic relationship to toxic relationship, suddenly, like, that’s your fault. You know, like, I’m responsible for that, too. If I’m responsible for my ability to change and do something different. That also means that like, I’m responsible for the current position I’ve been in for maybe like a decade. Right?

Lesley Logan 7:34
Right. And we added overwhelming. (Kasey: Right) It’s like, I just went back in time, and to all the things I’ve complained about, and I was like, “Oh, wow, there we are, we’re responsible for all of that. (Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 7:45
Yeah. Exactly. And we actually found that in the research was very interesting, because we’re like, “Okay, great. We’re helping people cultivate a growth mindset means that they’re more likely to be successful, achieve their goals, do all this amazing stuff.” But like shit, it’s also increasing, like, their self blame, and their guilt, and like, shame around some of this stuff. So just like a very tricky thing to make sure, when we are cultivating a growth mindset in ourselves helping other people do that, that we’re doing so in a way that removes the best of our ability, like the blame for where you currently are, you know. And you know in HMCC, we’ve probably talked about this before, but this is where like, the power of like, not yet, is really great. Because you can say, you know, like, “Oh, you know, I’m not where I want to be yet. Or I’m like working on all this stuff. But like, don’t like no worries, like, I’ll get there eventually. And I’m just not there yet. You know, it’s like, not a big deal. You know, I’ll get there.” Instead of it being like, “Oh, now that I’m aware of, like what I’m capable of, I have so far to go and like shit, that’s all my fault.” You know? So (Lesley: Yeah) yeah.

Lesley Logan 8:43
I’m, so I have I started a mentorship this year, where I have like, 15 people, and it’s called eLevate, and it’s really about elevating their, you know, their teaching their connection, the method and their own practice. And really, it’s elevating how they talk to themselves and how they let their clients talk to themselves. Because some of them are like, “I can’t, I can’t do that. I can’t, my body can’t do that. This I can’t do.” And it’s like, “Wait, whoa, first of all, a) would you let a client ever say that to you? No, you probably would tell them something different. B) if you say you can’t, then you can’t for sure.” You will you’re bo… like, right, our body and our brain are like, “Let me prove you wrong.” (Kasey: Right) (Lesley and Kasey laughs) (Kasey: Can you imagine? Yeah) Yeah that be so funny if it revolted? And I’m like, “Let me actually prove you wrong.” But but what … so we talk a lot and also inside of OPC it’s like, “If you are not able to do an exercise yet, then what can you do?” So we’re trying to cultivate that like searching for possibility in that. And I it’s a practice, right? Like this is not like you can become aware but then you still have to practice this mindset. (Kasey: Yeah, exactly)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 9:49
Yeah, and it’s interesting you say that too, because I think a lot of times when we’re talking about like cultivating a growth mindset, try not to have a fixed mindset, things like that. People assume that like, okay, well once I have a grown mindset, it’s like you don’t have to practice anymore, there’s no more effort or anything like that. And the reality is like, it’s it’s an ongoing practice, it’s ongoing effort over time. And truly, I don’t think there’s a human out there who’s like, 100% growth mindset in every different area of life all of the time, you know, like, even me who spent again, nearly five years in the mindset lab researching this stuff, I absolutely still catch myself with a fixed mindset and like certain things, or thinking, certain fixed mindset phrases, and stuff like that, but the difference is, right, is that I’m very, very good at catching it. I’m very aware of like, those certain words that trigger it, like, I always do this, or I can never do that. Or this is how it always goes, for me things of that nature. It’s like, whoa, whoa you know, those kind of words, do like send sirens like in my head to like, “Okay, let’s take a step back, like, what is it, what is actually going on here? What’s actually true? You know, is there a different way we can reframe this and maybe more like growth, mindset oriented,” that sort of thing. So it is really like an ongoing practice, and just being able to recognize, and I know, you mentioned a lot of like, self awareness and stuff already. But that’s such a big first step, like people ask me all the time, you know, like, “What’s the first step to really starting to shift my mindset to have more of a growth mindset? Like, how do I actually do this?” Right? (Lesley: Yeah) And the truth is, we have to become more aware of where the fixed mindset is showing up. So the things that we’re saying to ourselves, like, how it’s holding us back, like, in what areas of our lives, do we have more of a fixed mindset? Because that’s another like big myth, right, is that you either have a growth mindset, or you have a fixed mindset in every area of your life, the truth is, like, you could absolutely have a fixed mindset when it comes to your career, but have a growth mindset when it comes to weight loss, right? So it’s not just like a one thing or the other. It’s very, very domain specific, the fancy way of saying it but …

Lesley Logan 11:42
Interesting. Yeah, it’s also nice, that’s also a really cool thing. Like it’s totally okay, if at work, you’re like, fixed like crazy, and we have things to work on, you can still have a growth mindset in other areas. And it makes me think of, we had this guy Rob on who talks about, like, happiness valleys and happiness islands. And it’s like, if you have a growth, mindset area of your life, or you’re really good at it, you know, you can tap into that how that feels, and what you’re saying to yourself and kind of take it over to your, your mindset. (Kasey: Here we go, yeah.) I want to, I want to talk about just really quickly, because you mentioned a few, what are some of the like buzz fixed mindset words like the ones that send sirens off in your mind? Like, what are some of those words?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 12:25
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So it’s like, obviously, these words can be used in not fixed mindset ways. But a lot of times when we’re saying things, like, “I always do certain things,” or “I can never do other things like always, never.” And another big one, too, that I hear a lot, especially like, from clients, and from coaches, it’s like, “Oh, I’m just not the type of person.” So it’s like, almost like any sort of word or phrase related to like identity and like who you are. It’s actually interesting, too, because thinking, more broad psychology here, but when it comes to like, stress and anxiety and things like that, you hear people a lot of times identifying as those things, you know, “It’s, it’s my depression, it’s my anxiety, it’s my stress.” And the more you identify as that thing, versus like, I am a person who sometimes you know, struggles with anxiety, it’s an entirely different thing, right? So and so much of this stuff, too, I mentioned all the time is like, you know, you hear like, “Oh, it’s just semantics, like, this is not just semantics,” and like the (Lesley: Right) words you choose matter. So yeah, anything related to identity thing, always saying never, things of that regard, can really be indicative and should, like I was saying that can be kind of like, listen for that stuff, whether you’re saying it to other people, whether you’re saying it to yourself, or you’re saying in your head, listen for those things. And when you do start to pick up on them pick it apart. Where did that come from? Why is that there? Is it really true? What’s the evidence for it? What’s the evidence against it, and be kind of like the researcher on your own mind.

Lesley Logan 13:49
I love those questions so much, we have to make sure they’re in their notes, people can just copy and paste because that is it’s kind of a way to, like take a 30,000 foot view of (Kasey: Yeah) yourself. And as you mentioned, get clinical about it. Okay, so you mentioned that you also like you can study this and you’re not like misenlightened, you know, person over here with a growth mindset in every area all of the time. So, how, you know, you started your company, you’re the CEO now like, how, how did, what was that mindset like what were the some of the things that you had to do to help yourself through imposter syndrome or anything like that, that you went through in in your growth?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 14:27
Yeah, that’s a really good question. What’s interesting for me is that when I because I get this question often where it’s like, “Well, what’s your mindset like? What’s been your process of like getting to a growth mindset?” And things like that. And I’ve definitely been like a high achiever in general. But when you bring up impostor syndrome, like that’s something that I mean, I constantly deal with to some degree, right? When I was in grad school, getting my PhD I was the youngest one in my program because I went directly from undergrad into grad school. Most people take some time off or they like get experience elsewhere do whatever. So as the youngest there, and it’s also a very humbling experience, just in general, going from undergrad to grad school, it’s like you go from a place where it’s like, oh, you’re actually like, a, like a subset of like pretty smart people amongst like, 10s of 1000s. Like I went to University of Minnesota, it’s like this huge, huge place, right? And then transferring into a smaller, like, subset program where like, everybody there is really good at the stuff that you’re studying, you know, and they got chosen specifically, like, there was three of us who came in at the same time of like, my cohort in my program for my PhD, right? So there was a lot of like, “Am I actually good at this? Like, did they make a mistake? Am I actually supposed to be here,” you know, that sort of thing. But I’ve talked about impostor syndrome in a lot of different ways. And one thing that I like to kind of chat about around it, I suppose, is that it’s not always a bad thing. And like kind of reframing it in that way. Because I think the general narrative, right is that imposter syndrome is this thing we should always be avoiding. It’s a bad thing. We don’t want to feel that way. We don’t want to feel like we don’t know what we’re doing or that we’re not meant to be here or something like that. But the reality is, we have this effect in the psychological research called the Dunning-Kruger effect. I’m sure you’ve heard of it before. But it’s essentially this idea that like, as you learn more, as you gain more knowledge, the less you actually think that you know, so I encourage people to take what is more of like a growth mindset viewpoint of imposter syndrome. And if you’re thinking like, “Oh, man, am I actually cut out for this?” Or like, “Do I know enough to talk about this topic correct.” I worked with a lot of coaches and a mentorship capacity. And one of their biggest concerns on social media is that like, you know, someone like Layne Norton, who’s a huge name in the health and fitness space is gonna come and read their posts and tell them that they’re wrong, you know, that they’re talking about something incorrectly. And when we …

Lesley Logan 16:48
As if these people have the time. I mean like this also happens like in the Pilates world, people are like, afraid of like, what someone’s gonna say, and I’m like, “They are not paying attention to you. No one seemed to …”

Kasey Jo Orvidas 16:57
They don’t care about you. Sorry. Yeah, exactly. But this is like the hostage just like little fear, like, “Oh, what if someone like says that I’m incorrect,” or whatever, and it’s coming from a place of what would be what we call imposter syndrome, right? Like, I’m not good enough to be like, sharing information about the certain topics and things of that nature. But what we’ve been talking about kind of going through this, okay, the Dunning-Kruger effect is like, how about we reframe this to the fact that if you’re worried about not sharing information exactly perfectly, and exactly how it’s going to come across? And all these things like you probably know, way more than you’re giving yourself credit for. It’s the people who are out there posting stuff and don’t care at all and are like, “Oh, I’m a genius. I know everything there is to know about everything, or there’s no way anyone would ever come after me. Because I know exactly the best way to say this. Like, they’re the ones who don’t actually know, right? They, they’re the ones who need more education and things like that.” So like, when we explain it that way, and like, kind of have that conversation. It’s like, “Oh, okay, that that makes me feel better.” You know, because if there’s ever a slight like, “Am I like, good enough? Like, can I actually do this,” it’s like, that’s probably coming from a place that you actually do know, enough, you know, and that can be really just like calming and reassuring and that way. And …

Lesley Logan 18:09
I love that so much. Because I usually tell people, I’m like, I’m like, “If you have impostor syndrome, it is a sign that you’re not a narcissistic, egotistical maniac.” Take it as a compliment. (Kasey and Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 18:19
It’s a good say, exactly. So like, even if yes, sure, it may be, there may be to some degree, may be an argument that we should work on that and like, try to get over that. Because here’s the thing, right? If it’s holding you back from doing things and like moving forward on things like yes, we need to like figure something out there. But that can be really helpful, just from like a mindset perspective to reframe a little bit, but also understand that even the people who are like doing really well and know a lot, honestly are probably experiencing the same if not more impostor syndrome because of how much they know. So a little bit of acceptance goes a long way. And it’s like, how do we work with this? Instead of like, constantly just trying to like push it away and pretend it’s not there? (Lesley: Right) I think it’d be really helpful.

Lesley Logan 18:58
Yeah, I agree. I think it’s, it is true. It’s like, if it’s holding you back, then that’s the thing. But like, even I think with Seth Godin, I’ve heard him talk about impostor syndrome a lot. He goes, “If you’re new at something, especially you should feel like an impostor.” That’s the definition. (Kasey: That’s so true. Yeah. Right) So I think like, it is interesting how we’re constantly trying to avoid something. But that that thing we’re avoiding can also be a flashlight into either you do know a lot so congratulations, or it could be it could just be a sign that you are new, you can actually care that’s why you’re feeling like a little nervous about it. (Kasey: Yeah) And and so if it’s not holding you back, like you know, let it be let it be a feeling. When you when you went from college, you had your degree now you’re like, you’ve left the lab, and you started started doing your own company. What what was that like? Was it because you study mindset? Was it easy for you to like, step into the mindset of like, “Okay, this is who I’m going to be. So if I step on that mindset, it’s easy.” Or is it still a practice even if you have studied all of it?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 20:00
I think it’s, it’s interesting because I am like so passionate about what I do, right? So some of it’s so fun for me to like, do what I get to do. So a lot of this is even if there is like a flicker of like, “Oh, am I actually been able to do this thing? Am I actually gonna be able to step into this role? Am I actually going to be able to assume this identity, whatever it is,” it’s sort of like, doesn’t, it doesn’t really matter though, because like, I’m gonna try anyway, I’m gonna do it anyway. Because this is something that I really enjoy. And I’m really passionate about, I really love and I really want to be doing, which I think is like, it’s sort of like a shield for a lot of things. If you can be doing something that you’re truly, like, intrinsically motivated and passionate about, that can be a shield to imposter syndrome, it can be a shield to just like, just not feeling good enough. In general days where you’re feeling unmotivated, like stuff like that, like having that same goes for like health and fitness, you know, you can’t get to the gym. But if you are intrinsically motivated to do that, or like to go do Pilates, you know, for those who are listening, and maybe that’s a little bit more relevant. There’s, you’re still thinking yourself, like, “Well, this is really like, what makes me feel my best. And this is really like what I do, this is who I am,” that’s what’s gonna get you there. So I do think some of that is not necessarily different for me, but it’s different for anyone, if you have that sort of passion. That said, I still felt like a little bit of like resistance of moving into more of like, a CEO or like boss role. You know, I have five assistant coaches, I have like a graphic designer on my team, you know, I work with like, in ads team, and like all of this stuff, and to be the person who’s kind of like calling the shots. I’ve always done that for myself, but not necessarily for like a team of people. So that is definitely something that was a little bit of a… And I’m still learning, right? Still learning how to best like manage people and help people. I’m constantly figuring out like, “What’s a better question that I can add into my end of week surveys for my assistant coaches, so I can like have like, help them grow personally, and develop (Lesley: Yeah) and do all the things that they want to do.” But for me, it’s like, I think maybe from a mindset perspective, and having like a growth mindset, and understanding that I’m just always looking for ways to improve and get better. And I know that I can, if I can, you know, put myself in the position to learn more experience, more, have mentors and things like that, who can like kind of show me along the way too. So (Lesley: Yeah) to me, it’s more, it’s less of like, “Can I do this? Or will I be good at this? Or am I going to be successful about this?” And with this, and more about like, “Wow, this is a new thing that I get to learn about. That I get to like improve on. That I get to develop these skills.” And like, actually remember saying to like getting into my business full time, the number of just like different like terminal landing pages, and you know, like, Oh, my God, just like lead magnets. And like all of these different words, I’d never heard literally, within the first like six months to a year, what going full time in my business, I’m pretty sure you learn as much as I did during my PhD, you know, (Lesley: Right. Right) like, it’s just like, so much new stuff, and so much opportunity. And like, I love that. I love like, because I spent so long, studying something so specific that like, it was very rare that I came across something that I didn’t already know, honestly, being like, that’s, I mean, that’s what you do in a PhD, right? It’s like, you get really specific on a very, like, I was looking at mindsets for health and fitness behaviors. So going into a space where it’s like, wow, this is all new stuff that I don’t know yet that I have, like a chance to, like actually get better at and like, learn something different, was really exciting to me. So,

Lesley Logan 23:14
But also like, I love the way you’re looking at it, like, “I get to do this.” So it’s very different than like, here’s another thing I don’t know. And so that’s another it’s kind of like having the mindset of seeing the possibility and seeing that we get to do these things. And I know for myself too, it’s like, I, it’s like a new level, new devil. Right? That’s why they say it. There’s there’s of course I all the things we’re talking about before we hit record, like, we have grown so much since I saw you last year like it is insane. We have 25 people on the team, there’s a fourth company and things are moving a mile a minute, and sometimes I’m like, “Oh my God, am I cut out for this?”

Kasey Jo Orvidas 23:50
Can I actually withstand this?

Lesley Logan 23:51
Yeah. And, but I find myself going okay, like, you know, practicing what I preach. It’s like, well, what, the person who runs this company, the person is the visionary of this company, what are they thinking? What are they doing? What are they studying? What do they need to know? And that’s helping me pick out new podcasts to listen to, like pick out new books to read, like really doing that. So I want to know, are you… is this something you ask yourself these questions? Do you journal? Do you just talk to yourself in your head? Like, are you bouncing things off? Like people are gonna want to know? Okay, hold on. (Kasey: Yeah) Who’s, where are you asking these questions? Is it a journal? What’s the process?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 24:23
Yeah, yeah, for me, it’s a lot of just like, honestly, I think like, in my head, you know, it’s the time that I, the 10 minutes in my car from the house to the gym. It’s you know, a little times like that, where when I’m like on a walk, or like in the morning, and I’m getting ready, and I’m just kind of like thinking like, “How do I want to show up today?” You know, like, “Who do I want to be?” Like, “Well, how do I embody that?” And constantly thinking like, I mean definitely like different books and podcasts just to kind of like, get my gears turning in that way and start to think, you know, like, “Okay, well, how can I improve this environment for you know, my, the assistant coaches on my team? How do I make sure that they’re getting the most, that they’re doing things that are playing to their strengths and that they’re finding joy in the work that they do?” Because ultimately like that’s going to impact the clients. And that’s an impact people company, you know, so? And how do I be a better leader doing all of those things? So I think it’s just a little bit for me, gosh, I don’t know, I was like, definitely not like, I don’t sit down and like with journal prompts or anything like that, but it’s a little bit of just thinking about, like, “Who do I want to be?” And like, “What are the steps to get there?” And like, “Who do I need to learn from to do that? What research resources do I need?” I kind of like reverse engineering from there, which is interesting now that I think about it. Because a lot of times, that is what I use with like, clients and coaches and stuff, like, “Where do you want your business to be?” Or like, “Where do you want your body and your lifestyle to be?” And then we kind of like work backwards from there to figure out like, what the steps are like, what do you, what can you literally do like today to start working towards that?

Lesley Logan 25:43
Yeah, that this is I’m obsessed with this, because that’s to me how I have always achieved any goal. It’s like, I go to the goal. And then I just work backwards until I (Kasey: Yeah) can’t get it to like a step I can take today. Because I find when you take an action step, it helps with the mindset. So you can tell (Kasey: Oh yeah) yourself, “Okay, this is what I want to do.” And then you take an action to kind of like solidify it. And it, it’s what’s it’s almost like, it’s like a bounce, it’s like an echo effect, right? Then the (Kasey: Yeah) action tells the brain like, “Hey, we’re doing this.” And so you start, it’s like, it’s a domino effect of that. So thank you for sharing that. Because I’ve, I find that people, they don’t make it small enough. So even if they’re listening to this, and they like are working backwards, they’re not often able to take it smaller, like I was listening to James Clear, talked about how people like, they know they can’t run a marathon tomorrow. So they’re like, I’m gonna run for 15 minutes. But maybe they really need to just put their running shoes on, like if you’ve (Kasey: Yeah) never ran (Kasey: That’s so true) or you haven’t ran in a long time. And it’s like, just keep taking it back. And we had Jill Flodstrom on and she was talking about, you know, get things down to things that take two minutes, because then you you, we always have two minutes here and there. If you can (Kasey: Yeah) get everything done into a two minute task, then it’s easy to take those action steps and kind of (Kasey: Totally) get the ball (Kasey: I love that) rolling. Yeah, yeah, I was like, “Oh, I love that too.” I’m not organized enough for that. But my team is loving it. (Kasey and Lesley laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 27:06
That’s funny. It’s true, though, because it’s like, “Okay, if you can do it in two minutes, like what excuse you really have.” You know, (Lesley: Right) Like, “Come on.” (Kasey laughs) Yeah.

Lesley Logan 27:14
Well, because and if you can’t, then you’d like are really holding on to, your wrist like … (Kasey: Yeah) Oh my God. Okay, so what are you, what are you working on right now? So not necessarily you got you’ve cultivated your growth mindset. And that’s always a work in progress. But like, where where are you trying to challenge yourself these days to grow?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 27:34
I’m writing a book. (Lesley: Oh really? This is amazing. Yes, girl.) Oh, my God. And let me tell you talking about challenging. Did you know it takes a lot of time to write of book? (Kasey laughs)

Lesley Logan 27:44
Oh, yeah, I wrote one. (Lesley laughs) (Kasey: I actually didn’t know that. That’s amazing.) I did, (Kasey: Yeah) I wrote one. (Kasey: Oh my goodness.) And I had to help, I had someone like helped me break down like, you have to like you, I guess you could just sit down and write. But like, (Kasey: Right) she actually wrote books. And she is like, you know, … “Let’s start with like, what’s the goal of the book? What’s this? What’s the chapters? (Kasey: Yeah) What goes in each chapter? I want to see bullet points.” And (Kasey: Well done.) then you can, and then go work on the chapter because now you’ve effectively outlined the chapter. (Kasey: Yeah) I, it took me, I had to go to a Starbucks every Sunday. So I would just sit down and write for an hour and a half (Kasey: Do nothing but that. Yeah) Yes. And I would do an hour and a half, because I wouldn’t have to get up to pee. And that’s how much the parking meter was. So hello LA. (Lesley and Kasey laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 28:30
Oh, my God, that’s so perfect. I love that.

Lesley Logan 28:31
Yeah. So you’re writing a book, this is amazing. Tell me more.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 28:35
So it’s been honestly, it’s already been sort of like a year in the works. But I have, like two chapters done and a proposal and an introduction. So I am working with an editor to get it out. It’s currently out there in the world, trying to find a publisher (Lesley: Cool) to publish the book. So that’s kind of the status that we’re at right now. And it took a long time getting there. It’s one of those things too, like these first couple chapters that I’m going out and saying like, “Hey, I’ll write the rest of it. Like those couple chapters need to be really good.” Right. So that said, I mean, this alone with a couple chapters in the introduction, and the proposal, I think, is getting close to 100 pages, like it’s a lot darker (Lesley: Yeah) already. But so the book is a little bit since probably more than I’ve shared so far. I know it’s like tease, I’ve been teasing about it like on Instagram and stuff but haven’t really like talked about what it is. But a lot of it is kind of like taking the Health Mindset Coaching Certification and like walking through, you know, the different aspects of motivation, self control, habits, growth versus fixed mindset, stress all of those areas, and essentially giving the reader like tangible like little exercises within the science of those areas. So (Lesley: It’s so cool.) same kind of thing that I always like to do, right. It’s like teach the science but then give you like tangible tools to actually design your mindset in the way that you need to in order to be successful in your life and your health and your fitness. So it’s essentially a mindset book for health and fitness enthusiast.

Lesley Logan 29:58
I am obsessed with this, I think this is really great. It’s my, my, my mind pictured all of it. And I love, I love that there is like tools in the chapter because hello, everyone knows I’m about action. And it’s like you can learn about it. And then it’s like and then and then what do I do with this (Kasey: Yeah) information that is now in my brain?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 30:16
Yes, you will love it. I literally am like to my editor is like, “I want a full blank page here where people can literally write into the book and write their notes down.” (Lesley: Yeah) Like fill in the blanks and all the stuff. Yeah. So and (Lesley: That is so …) relatively interactive.

Lesley Logan 30:32
That is so cool. Well, really quick. So I was just listening to a woman’s podcast because I really want to get this woman on my podcast. So her name is Heather Monaghan. Anyone who knows her, please help me get her on. Okay, so she just shared, she shared in her episode that came out yesterday. So it’s like Creating Confidence with Heather Monahan. And she shared how long it took her to get her book proposal done. Her agent made her do 15 edits, 15 edition, like 15 (Kasey: rounds) rounds of her (Kasey: Yeah) proposal tell she’s like, “Nope, you can do better. Nope, you can do better.” Then she shopped it around. And they 15 different publishers actually, like wanted to look at it. She got two offers, but it took like a year. (Kasey: Oh yeah) And she’s like honestly, she’s like, “I had no idea how long it takes. So just so you know, it takes a really long time. They’re not in any rush.” (Kasey: Oh my God.) So just so you know, you might hear crickets for a long time. And apparently that’s, that’s normal.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 31:30
Bring it on. And yeah, it’s like it’s one of those things to where like, this is sort of a life goal for me. I’ve always loved writing even when I was younger, I was like writing novels about like polar bears when I was in second grade. (Lesley: I love this.) So I’ve always wanted to write a book, it really is sort of like a life goal. And I’m very fine with this being like a 2025 thing, like no big deal. Like I’m here, I’m here for the long haul. But I do think it will be a different experience. And I’m sure you being a business owner you can attest to this where it’s like prior to like getting like a book advanced and having someone like on my ass about deadlines. I had so much other stuff that needed to be done like immediately. So the (Lesley: Yeah) book was very like these couple chapters, the proposal stuff like that was very much like backburner. So part of the fact that it took over a year to like get to this point is truly just because I didn’t have like the quote unquote ‘motivation’ to do it. So (Lesley: Yeah, I, I …) but it will be different once it’s like okay, “Now we’re writing the rest of it.”

Lesley Logan 32:19
Yeah. No and I that’s why I had an editor as well that had to have a chapter a weekend. I had to have a chapter weekend and I had to review the edits last week. And so it was this process like what like held a fire under because I self published that one because I talked to some people and the reality is is like there was not enough people think about becoming Pilates instructor for a publisher to pick up my book … (Lesley laughs) (Kasey: Probably true. It’s very unique. Yeah.) I know it’s very unique but we just hit we just actually updated the whole, the updated the whole book and it’s so it’s it’s been nine years, eight years, nine years and we did a an edit … (Kasey: Like a second edition. Yeah.) Yeah. (Kasey: Cool) And then anyone who has ebook got the new edition, it’s all branded, the new stuff in there, it’s actually really interactive and I’m really excited about it. But it is even just doing the second edit was like, “Oh my God I have to do this again.” (Kasey: I’m sure you’re like having like PTSD flashbacks.) (Kasey and Lesley laughs) I did. I did. I was like, “Okay, I read through it. Everyone else it’s on your plate now.” So (Kasey: Yeah) oh man, I’m so excited for you. This is great. Well, you have to keep us posted. We’ll have to have you back on when you when you get your you know, release date and all that stuff. (Kasey: Yeah) Okay, Kasey, where do you like to hang out? Where can people learn more about mindset from you? Where where’s all your stuff at?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 33:33
Yeah, so I spend the majority of my social media time on Instagram. I am dabbling in TikTok but I’d say it’s probably not even really worth following just yet. (Kasey laughs) Give me some time. But on TikTok, on Instagram pretty much anywhere Pinterest, you can find me I’m @coachkaseyjo. It’s coach with the C and Kasey with a K and Jo without an E. If you are interested in any of my free resources, workshops, programs, coaching anything you can pretty much find all of that on my website and that’s

Lesley Logan 34:04
Amazing. All right. So we ask everybody Be It Till You See It action items. So bold, executable, intrinsic or target steps people can take right now to be it till they see it. What do you got?

Kasey Jo Orvidas 34:14
Um, I actually feel like so much we talked about falls into like a lot of those categories and like, “Man, that’s like the episode.”

Lesley Logan 34:21
I know it is. (Kasey: … make sense. Right?) Well, yeah, for the people who like to fast forward to the end and like get the cliff notes. You can (Kasey: Right) you can bullet point them out.

Kasey Jo Orvidas 34:29
Yeah, no, definitely. I think a lot like based on like what we talked about in everything here. And like, just think about mindset in general. There’s just like taking that action step and right thinking about the person who’s like, this may be a little bit like cliche and corny but it really does work, right. It can really like direct your decision making strategies. But think about like okay, that person that I want to be. That successful person, that person who’s lost the weight, that person who’s like finally a successful Pilates instructor, like what would they do today? Like what is their schedule look like? Like, what decisions are they making or if you’re having a hard time deciding, if I should do this, or should I hit post on that Instagram posts or whatever it’s like, well, what would that person do? And if the answer is they would post without hesitation then post without hesitation, you know, a lot of this is like, we just kind of need to prove it to ourselves. And in doing so you will cultivate more of a growth mindset, because you’re kind of showing to yourself that you can change. That you can do these things that maybe you weren’t sure, like, sure you were able to do before.

Lesley Logan 35:23
Yeah. Oh, I do love that. I do love that. That is, somebody has been helping me get through this new growth stage. It’s like, okay, but what would that person do? What would they do? (Kasey: Yeah) Did they frustrated by this thing? No, they would even know this thing happen. (Kasey: Take your energy? No.) Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I find myself talking to Brad about all the time because if I’ll get upset. I’m like, “Why are you doing that?” You know, like, you can do that. But like, who else could do it right now. And he’s gotten (Kasey: Right) so like, just, I mean, obviously, with the way the business has grown, he has to. But also like, he’s like, it’s a mindset thing. It’s like having to switch that mindset of like, going from being the doer to being the person who like looks at more high level and, (Kasey: Yeah) and that’s because he had to think about what would this person do in this role? And they would think it more high level. Kasey, you are so fun, you’re amazing. You’re, you know, you’re so smart. But I really do love how you broke down mindset for health and fitness and everything in your program. And people if you are interested in that, definitely check it out because it really, it’s, some of it is so validating. It’s like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve been doing this already with my clients.” And so I was like, “Oh, that’s a better way to handle that.” And it really does make a massive difference. And so for us, we we implemented and all of the programs that we have, is really trying to help cultivate that growth mindset in our communities. And I really just appreciate how you you didn’t make me have to go to a mindset lab and do a PhD. So thanks so much. (Lesley and Kasey laughs)

Kasey Jo Orvidas 36:48
Yeah, that’s like a fast track, right?

Lesley Logan 36:50
Yeah. All right. Well, everyone, how are you going to use these tips this information in your life. Screenshot this episode, tag, @coachkaseyjo and the @be_it_pod and let us know so that we can hear what your takeaways are. And also so that your friends and family can hear it too because sometimes having a growth mindset is really hard if the people around you don’t have it either. So this can be your way of like little tap on the shoulder for that. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast! One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram! I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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