How to Show Up for

Those Dealing With Loss

Ep. 245 with Lesley & Brad

“But let’s not find silver linings for the people going through the grief.”

Lesley Logan

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Click to read more about:       Lesley Logan       Brad Crowell

 

Show Notes

Lesley and Brad recap a touching conversation with Kim Hamer, author of “100 Acts of Love” and seasoned guide in supporting those navigating through tough times. Drawing from Kim’s personal journey of loss, they explore the genuine art of being there for others.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • Why is it not our place to point out others’ silver linings?
  • How to offer genuine support to those grieving.
  • The importance of identifying and repeatedly offering your unique helping superpower.
  • The importance of authentically expressing emotions during grief.
  • How to offer heartfelt, empathy-driven support without making it all about you.

Episode References/Links:

Transcript

Lesley Logan
I remember when my grandfather died. We brought a Costco size container of toilet paper. And my mom’s like, oh, no, I read like, you shouldn’t just bring food because they people’s fridges are not that big. And you’re having a funeral, everyone is bringing food, or they’re bringing flowers. I’m bringing toilet paper, because there’s many more people in that house and normally are there. And like, she probably hasn’t probably what is the size that she buys? Like a six pack? You know, for two people. So like, you bring a big thing about big thing and napkins and like, it sounds like yes, you look a little strange walking into a funeral with a big bag of toilet paper, but no one ran out.

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Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan 1:36
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the honest convo I had with Kim Hamer in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that interview, feel free to pause this now and then go back. Listen that one come back. Join this one. It’s a good one. It’s an honest one. It’s an uncomfortable but like nothing uncomfortable. Like we’re gonna make you uncomfortable. It’s just that like

Brad Crowell 1:58
It’s very real.

Lesley Logan 2:00
Yeah. It’s hard to think about like, no one’s to think about that stuff.

Brad Crowell 2:03
When we say that stuff. We’re talking about death.

Lesley Logan 2:05
Yeah. So, anyways, it’s a it’s a bit different than if you listen to the Krista St. Germain death one that she’s a she’s actually a grief counselor, coach, or Kim Hamer actually works with grief in the workplace. So two different ways to think about grief and also like how we can work with people. So I think it’s really cool. Anyways, before we get into that, today is it cycle to work day,

Brad Crowell 2:30
it’s August 3,

Lesley Logan 2:32
it’s August 3, which means we are three days from being on tour, which means the house is probably in a crazy hot mess trying to pack up a van to be away for, I don’t know, I said three like two and a half weeks.

Brad Crowell 2:45
Yeah, a little over two weeks. Well over two weeks, where we’re doing an absolute bananas schedule, y’all.

Lesley Logan 2:49
You guys, at some point, I just think that they thought I was a robot because they’re now at 14 cities.

Brad Crowell 2:55
Yeah, we’re at Redlands, Long Beach, Bakersfield, Handford which is basically Fresno, Modesto, Fairfield, Sacramento, Bend, Oregon, Portland, Oregon, Seattle, Washington, that’s 10. Then Spokane, then Whitefish, Montana, Salt Lake City, Utah, St. George, Utah, 14, city where she’s teaching multiple workshops and classes and, you know, like hanging out sessions, and all these different places where

Lesley Logan 3:28
And if you’re like, oh, my gosh, Lesley, you should come to this city. It’s on the way. I love you so much.

Brad Crowell 3:32
Would love to do that next time.

Lesley Logan 3:33
Next time, we have planned this thanks. We have a headliner. Were with Balanced Body, they are helping us make this happen. Yeah.

Brad Crowell 3:43
So they’re sponsoring the tour. And we’re so grateful for it. And for those of you who are going to be joining us at those, those live experiences, you’ll be, you know, seeing some new BB gear with their Contrology stuff, and you’ll be getting some, some goodies from them and everything. It’s gonna be really fun. So we’re super grateful.

Lesley Logan 4:05
I’m so grateful also, because like, it’s helpful. We could not do 14 cities without their help. That would have not even been able to happen. It would have been seven.

Brad Crowell 4:13
Yeah, yeah. I mean, also, you know, we don’t have that much space in the van. So they’re gonna be shipping things to different places and all this stuff. It’s gonna be it’s like full support. So we’re (…)

Lesley Logan 4:25
That’s so crazy. So cool. Yeah, that’s amazing. Well, thank you Balanced Body. So go to opc.me/tour to grab your tickets. If you know someone who lives in those areas. Or even you know, a short drive away

Brad Crowell 4:38
Yeah even if it’s an hour to drive, come meet us. We’d love to meet them, you…

Lesley Logan 4:42
Also meet the community that amazing people who are already coming to the classes are probably driving as well and like you can meet more people who are interested in things like you are. So it’s super fun. We’re way in community and we’re really excited about it. After that I get home for like, seven days and then I’m off to Poland for four days. Yeah, and then I come back and it’s Agency MINI time that seven days of coaching and actually at this moment if you’re not yet on the waitlist you can get on the waitlist and get a special opportunity to get a special price and join the group a month early and do some weekly homework to get to make the most out of it. So go to profitablepilates.com/mini Get on that waitlist. (…). And then you’ll be given the opportunity to join a month early. So if you know you’re gonna want to do it might as well get on the waitlist, you can have the opportunity.

Brad Crowell 5:34
Yeah, we’re gonna give you a little bit of prep. Before mini starts, you can start thinking through a few things. So when the week of mini happens, you’ve already kind of done some homework. Some pre thinking is going to make everything a lot make a lot more sense for you and flow a little easier. So profitablepilates.com/mini

Lesley Logan 5:51
And then October we’re going to be in Cambodia.

Brad Crowell 5:56
Oh my God,we are so excited. Oh, I just got like a welling of emotion here. I’m so excited about this.

Lesley Logan 6:03
I was just talking to Brad, So the day before yesterday, before recording this. So not August 2, but the time recording this. I was in Santa Barbara and Brad’s like (…) And yes, ladies, you don’t want to wear your leggings at the temples because a, yes, they do wick sweat away. But good luck peeling them off and put him back on in. Oh, when you have to go to the bathroom, you definitely want to be in a beautiful dress. The tourists that I would see from all these different Asian countries would be like wearing these beautiful dresses and heels. And I don’t know how they’re walking into these temples in their heels. But I can tell you this, I don’t wear heels. I wear tennis shoes, but I wear a dress. And I always wear a bright color because your pictures will be even more amazing. They’re so fun. Yeah. So lesleylogan.co/retreat…(Brad: Yeah, come join us. There’s still room.) And then I’m gonna go rogue a little bit because we haven’t updated November but I have to tell you this, I am really close to allowing applications for eLevate to happen…(Brad: Oh, right.) And so that is we open up the doors to applications to people on the waitlist first. We can only take 12 people in a group. So you want to go to lesleylogan.co/elevate to be on that waitlist. And we will be doing a little bit announcement call q&a call thing I’m sure soon and applications will be open.

Why don’t you just briefly share what eLevate is?

Oh, that’s a great thing, huh? Don’t you read my mind not to know the secret this secret thing I’ve been doing that we rarely ever publicize. So if you listen to FYF, you might have heard about elevate wins because I do share their wins a lot. So eLevate is a mentorship program for people who are already comprehensively trained, meaning you’ve been trained on the Reformer, Mat, Tower, Cadillac and Wunda chair, anything else you’ve been trained on is a bonus. If you haven’t, don’t worry about it. You don’t have to own this piece of equipment, you have to have access to those pieces of equipment… (Brad: But what’s the point of it?) So what I have found is that way too many teachers have impostor syndrome around teaching, they’re more focused on being perfect, and with themselves with their clients. And so the point of eLevate is actually teach you how Joe Supplies taught my teacher, and how he taught. So how my teacher taught the people that he’s been around for decades. And so what I’m actually helping you do is like, get rid of all this like rules and mumbo jumbo and like get really back into the intentions of the exercise and have a lot of fun with it. And it’s crazy, you will eLevate in more ways than one I always say you’re gonna elevate your connection to the method. You’re teaching and your personal practice. But in every group somebody elevates and how they learn how to work with other people, how they learn how to work with their clients, how they learn how (…), how they treat themselves. Yeah, it’s a journey. It’s nine it’s about nine months. Yeah, from start to finish, give or take to the calendar. But like, it is really fun. And we never

Brad Crowell 8:58
Afterwards they get a certificate from us.

Lesley Logan 9:00
Yes, you can get CCS from all each of the weekends. We have them separated out so that you can like you know, use them how you need to. And while it is virtual, we do let people if you want to visit Vegas, you can come and be in person for some of the stuff. And so my eLevate people get a lot more access to me, more than anybody else when it comes to the Pilates method and nerding out OPC would be the next, the next but do you get questions on exercises in your practice not versed like how to teach it. So eLevate’s the place you want to be if you’re really wanting to have amazing community and what’s so cool is we’re about to wrap up round two, round one can’t wait to meet them. Round three will wrap up in September. And then all of them will be in the in the alumni group together. And I already announced the alumni retreat and people are like oh my god, I’m just really excited.

Brad Crowell 9:52
Well, I had a win that we could briefly say, one of our eLevate alumni Rail said I was doing chest expansion on the reforming yesterday. And in particular, it was focused on my fast connection, the carriage just seemed to float forward. And dare I say it felt easy. And now it’s finally clicked. What so many who have taught me we’re looking for with ground, grounding my knees and pulling my thighs towards each other. So just like even after the program has finished, Rael went through eLevate round one that was like a year and a half ago now. And that win was from a week and a half ago. So you know, it’s like continuous focus and wins and (…)

Lesley Logan 10:32
Round one is still having a massive party. Like they still teach each other, they still do, like their partners still meet up. It’s like kind of crazy. So I love what we’re creating. If you are wanting to feel like you have a family, if you want to feel like you have a safe place to ask the questions that you really are bringing you want to feel you have a place where you’d be perfect. That’s what eLevate is.

Brad Crowell 10:50
Yeah. So go to lesleylogan.co/elevate. And get yourself on the wait list again. That’s free.

Lesley Logan 10:56
All right, so let’s get into it. Yeah, an audience question now.

Brad Crowell 10:59
Yeah, love it. Okay, cool. So Amanda, thanks so much for writing in. Said, Hey, I would love to know, your recording prep strategy. I know classical has an order. But every time I write notes for classes, I go rogue, it always seems to work out. But then I’m like, dang. Dang it. I wanted to do X, and she kind of forgot what she had prepped. So she’s clearly talking about Amanda’s Chloe’s talking about filming classes that must go on some website somewhere.

Lesley Logan 11:28
Yeah. So anytime you’re filming anything. So somebody if you’re about to skip through, occasionally, I’ll film anything. Anytime you’re about to prepare anything, as far as someone else to consume a speech, whether you’re working to do a presentation or anything like that, this is going to help, I promise you can find yourself in the story. So first of all, I would like to just tell you, I go rogue all the time.

Brad Crowell 11:49
In fact, you just went rogue when you were filming for PA

Lesley Logan 11:52
Oh, they literally they’re like, Hey, you want to do this? And I was like, yep, well, I’m doing it this Oh, I said I also skipped six exercise, right the beginning. Here’s the deal. Like when I want you to know this, when you recognize you’ve gone rogue. If you are in a position to like stop, pause and potentially go back. Ask yourself if you want to, like does it really make a difference? So I decided in the moment like I was failing for pausing time, I decided in the moment too, we changed the beginning, which is why that I think that happened. Like I decided to add something in the beginning. And then I got so obsessed with while that felt, I just skipped six exercises of rowing. And I realized it too late to go back there was like we were like, now we’re like 10 more exercise and like it would just have been a disaster. And I’m not someone who can like pick up where I left off. So I just decided I was going to actually add to the rowing exercise in a kneeling exercise where they could be done. And just let it go. Because the reality is, is that those exercises were not put in there to make the point I was trying to make. They were part of the point I was trying to make. But I still had the rest of the exercise that I could call upon. Yeah. And so I gave myself permission like I need, you need to know this. Sometimes what ends up happening is exactly what’s supposed to happen. Because when you’re in your head about how you want a presentation to be, how you want a class to be, how you want anything to be, you,re like, this is going to make the most sense, but then you actually are doing it. And if you’re giving a presentation or a speech, you are seeing feedback in real time, you’re seeing if things are making sense or not making sense. So you have to have the ability to go rogue, or like I would say, Be present enough to make gametime decisions like a quarterback would make a decision. Like yeah, you call from the throw it but like I don’t have a room. So I gotta go here. That’s not the quarterback going against the coach. It’s like what what is available to me? What can I do right now?

Brad Crowell 13:54
I think that the gametime decision and actually like being aware of you’re almost producing the show while you’re doing the filming. And that I would say is like advanced. Yeah. You know, for example, when you’re doing the interviews with the guests here on the pod.

Lesley Logan 14:12
Yeah, I used one rep so much now I don’t at all.

Brad Crowell 14:16
But one thing that I’m continuously impressed by is your understanding of the emotion of the episode to the point of when you decide all right, it’s time for a commercial break. Yeah, right, where you’re actually aware enough in the moment to be like, did we get what we needed to make this a really cool episode and is like, did we make our point that we conclude the thought, Okay, now is probably the appropriate time for break. It’s the same way when you’re filming a workout if you are like, wow, this this feeling that we just had in our body. I don’t even need this next thing. Now that I would say takes just simply experience and time and consistency of doing it. So until you get to that point. We have a cheat sheet that you can use. (…) Get yourself a big ass board, okay? And write your main, your major bullet points of whatever the flow of the class is and put it behind the camera so that you can still look at the camera. But you can also glance off to the, to the top or the side. And you can quickly see the next thing that’s on your list. Like, for example, when I was when I flew to Israel to speak to the entire company at monday.com for a presentation that I was making to them, I am not a professional presentation speaker on stage kind of person doing talking points. And so my coach, I literally had a coach, and he said, No, no worries, man, this is going to be just fine. We’re going to take big eight and a half by 11 pieces of paper. And we’re going to take 10 of them. And we’re going to write down in big ass capital letters, your main bullet points of what your 15 minute speaking is going to be about. And we’re just gonna lay them across the front of the stage, the audience can’t see it, they’re flat, but you as the presenter can easily glance down and see your next bullet points so that you don’t get tripped up and you’re not worried about it. I was like, Oh, that’s a genius tactic. So that worked really well.

Lesley Logan 16:11
The other thing I want to say, yes, some of it just comes with preparation. I mean, I can’t even tell you how many classes I filmed at this point between Pilates anytime, YouTube OPC. I mean, OPC was like, literally it’s two a week, times five years. So there’s that, you know, like…

Brad Crowell 16:26
Plus, I mean, we have more than 1000 videos on YouTube. So yeah.

Lesley Logan 16:30
So just like take all this, like, the other thing is like, one, take your like take. I listen to a lot of podcasts that I can get better at understanding like how like, how do I wrap a conversation up? How do I like what are some questions that are like, I can have in my back pocket? If I’m like, I’m not getting the point I want like, what’s a question I can ask that I could ask anyone. So I’m not like having to research this person’s life story. Yeah. Because that makes me less present. Right? Then the other, the last point I want to make on this is this. You need to be very clear on who you’re talking to. So your audience. Yes, every any thing you see that I have filmed. For sure. I have thought of a person. So if an OPC member wants to have a class where they need they need help on rowing. I’m picturing that OPC member. I’m not picturing all of OPC I’m picturing that member. When I’m teaching tree on the reformer. I know Rachel loves it. So I teach it because I know she loves it. I’m thinking about that, right? Like when I film for Pilates anytime there was a tutorial coming out about impostor syndrome. It’s for newer teachers or people who are like a little lost on their journey. I literally picked a woman that I like, like I’ve recently spoken to where I was like, this would be I wish I had this to send to that person. So I pictured where they’re coming from, who, like, all the things I’m like, if you don’t have a specific real human, then make one up. But like make them up real. Like, what got, why are they coming to that class? Why are they coming to this presentation?

Brad Crowell 18:05
What are their goals? How are you actually helping them with this?

Lesley Logan 18:09
Yeah, where are they? What’s their movement experience, if it’s a class, right, like, so if I am teaching a beginner, so I’m just teaching beginner exercises, I’m actually taking it to a point where a beginner doesn’t know a transition. So I’m actually like having to like, so you have to be very clear on who it’s for that is going to take time. It’s going to take some experience. And then you have to be kind yourself if you be if you went rogue, like just ask yourself, like do the changes you make just take away from the goal you had? If they did, okay, you filmed it, go back, add things in and like, that’s what this iMovie is for guys like. It’s like do a little fade. Fade, right? But like, I think that really helps. And then like knowing that, like, it’s not supposed to be perfect, and people are going to get something out of it. They really, really will. You know? I’ll also say this. Speaking of going this, and I’m going rogue when I was filming this Express mat class, my first roll up, my legs came off the ground, like in a teaser, like I like just went and I was just like, Well, okay, that’s the first one. We’ll keep going. And I was like, if your lace came up like mine, here’s what we’re gonna do. And I like told people what I was gonna do. So like, if you do want, if you do if you can’t, if it’s a live thing, and you need to like, edit in real time. Just be transparent. Yeah. Wow, I didn’t expect that. Let’s go back and do this. I really want you to experience the side of it. People are cool with it, but go on the journey. Yeah, thanks for the question.

Brad Crowell 19:33
Also makes you feel real because you know, then they’re like, Oh, she’s not perfect, either.

No. So I’m so excited for people to see I want to see how many people see my legs come up I can make. Anyways thank you for the question. If you want to answer a question for us. You just need to send it to the Be It pod.

Yeah. Okay, now let’s talk about Kim Hamer. Kim is a compassionate entrepreneur, and author of the book 100 Acts of Love. Her own experience and empathy have led her to advocate for more effective ways to offer support to others during challenging times of grief.

Lesley Logan 20:37
Yeah, right. You’re gonna actually have her in Agency.

Brad Crowell 20:40
Oh, that’s so great. I can’t wait. Yeah. And also, I really am excited. I want to actually get her book and see her book. Because she, she talked, she didn’t say these words. But she’s talked about, like, how chapters bury the lead where like, you know, it’s this whole, like, five pages to get to the fucking point of the thing. And she said, she cut all that out. It’s just like bullet points and action items all throughout this book, 100 Acts of Love. And she wanted to make a coffee table book where you could flip to any page, and it would have some practical advice right there. And I thought that that’s pretty cool.

Lesley Logan 21:13
What a great gift we can give people. Yeah, I think that’s fun. That’s what we’re doing. Okay. Well, here’s the thing. I this, I really love this whole thing. She was like, I love that she said, finding silver linings. Now, there’s a caveat to this. She said that what makes life amazing is that there we have the ability to find the silver linings. However, it is not. For those of us who are friends of people going through the grief. It is not our job to point out the griever’s silver lining. So find silver linings in your own life. But let’s not find silver linings for the people going through the grief. Like oh, well they you know, like, like, they had a great life while they’re here. It’s like, No, you don’t say that. You don’t get to say that. You know, and this just happened. One of our friends. Their cat died. And it was right after like, they like some stray dog and up in their backyard. They save this dog. They get this dog to the right foster group all these things. And then the person who had helped with the dog called up and said, Hey, your cat is someone hate your cat. And like I found myself trying not to even bring up a silver lining. Like because there’s this like innate thing like okay, want to cut through the this pain. That’s it real state right now. And all I did was like, I’m just going to hug you right now. That really sucks. Yeah, really sucks. I’m so sorry that that happened honestly. Like, I just hat’s a terrible day. Like you helped them help the dog and you lost a cat. Like, that’s awful. So let me just hug you right now. She can find her own silver linings. If there are any. It’s not my job. However, I can find silver linings in my own life. And she mentioned (…)

Brad Crowell 22:59
Well, I think I think that like the natural inclination is to come up with a reason, an excuse or justification, excuse is the wrong word. But just (…) You know, we I feel like the closing the loop. It’s the open loop, closed loop thing here. Yeah. And it’s for you as the friend feeling the need to have a closed loop for you. And that’s where this becomes selfish, right? Your job is not to close their loop. No, you can’t do it. All you can do is support them in the experience that they’re having. And when we come to the table and say, Oh, well, you know, this just must be, you know, the will of God or something like that. Like, that’s the one that comes to me the most obvious because when I grew up in the church, and that’s what everyone said, Oh, this is preordained, or this is like, control or any of those things that was never satisfying. It always actually made me angry. And also, you know, it’s like, it actually just makes the person who I was talking to feel like, Oh, well, you know, I don’t need to worry about this, because it’s out of, it’s controlled by somebody else or whatever. And so they were saying it for fucking them, not for me, right. And so we may inadvertently be doing exactly the same thing, when we’re trying to help someone come up with a reason for why it happened. And really, you don’t need to do it. In fact, it doesn’t support them at all to doing that.

Lesley Logan 24:16
But if you are the one who is going through the grief or the loss, or both, which is both, you can find your own silver lining at some point. So she had wanted to speak at an event and she applied and she got accepted. And so she asked her son to give her feedback on her speech. And this is after her husband passed away. And, she, it was like really fun because she got feedback from him and she was able to say like, you know, thank you for this. Your your dad would have been really proud of you. If he was still here. And then she realized if her husband was alive, she might not have even asked her son for support. So the bond she’s having with her kids is at a different level because of their shared loss. And she said, like, if my husband had been around, like (…)

Brad Crowell 25:08
I’d probably ask him and I never would have ask my son.

Lesley Logan 25:12
And you know, I think that that’s really special. I think it’s really special. So, you know, finding (…)

Brad Crowell 25:18
Here’s another thing I want to say about that. That didn’t happen for years. Until after her husband passed away. So her, you know, finding something good in it was way after the fact. And that’s okay.

Lesley Logan 25:34
Yeah, I think that’s okay. We actually had somebody like, after Krista’s episode dropped, we’re talking about like, the heart actually breaks like the art. That’s like an actual feeling the heart has, and somebody like wrote in, you know, like, I couldn’t, I didn’t think I’d make it past year one. I can’t believe I’m at year five. Like, it’s okay for it to take a long time. I don’t think that we’re you know, you don’t have to have a timeline. So anyways, you don’t have to find the silver lining right away. But I just love that she tells people who are going through this to find their own, or she’s telling us, if we’re going through this divine (…) maybe it’s not telling other people. So anyways, I love that. What did you love?

Brad Crowell 26:13
Yeah, so basically, the, like getting into her story where tragedy happens. And then her friends around her, were trying to help, but they don’t really know how to help. And she had this really interesting experience where her kids were like, Hey, mom, so cool that everyone keeps dropping off food. But do you think they could drop off something other than lasagna? Because we’re done with the lasagna? Because the, you know, same, same same situation, right? Like, that’s what, in the church that I grew up in, whenever there was something that happened, everyone would make food. And that is a great thing. I’m not saying don’t do that. But there’s way more than just food that people need. And, you know, and I thought that was really, I never actually really thought about like that. She said, You know what I needed? I needed toiletries in my bathroom. Because you know, when my young child was, at three in the morning, puking over the toilet, I ran out a paper towels or whatever, you know, that was the moment that I realized, I need fucking help. And it’s 3am. And I can’t call someone or whatever. So I just thought that was really interesting, because ultimately, it came down to similarly, when you’re trying to support someone you don’t know how to, what do we offer? we say, Hey, I’m here to help you in anything that you need. You just let me know. Right? And I was like, Well, of course, I’ve said that. I mean, I’m here for you. I actually genuinely meant that. But you know, that, but the problem is that a couple of things. She said, there are four reasons why you should not say, If you need anything, just let me know. And this is so well thought through. So I’m just going to actually read them. She said it fails to connect with the person. And that phrase does not acknowledge their pain. Hey, if you need anything, just let me know. So that’s kind of like you’re not actually acknowledging (…)

Lesley Logan 28:21
No, we said it to our teammates who are not going through grief but like, if you need anything call us, you know, like just on a project. So it’s not acknowledging grief of any kind.

Brad Crowell 28:30
Yeah, so to the term anything, like if you need anything, let me know. It’s too vague. And it’s too overwhelming. It’s actually too grandiose, it’s too large. At the moment, they’re like, Okay, anything anything, but they can’t, they’re not thinking straight. So they can’t like say, I need this one specific minor detail, you know, and so when that when it comes down to it, unless they’re your bestie, the chances are unlikely that they’re going to be like, Oh, I do need to help with something. But when they realize it two weeks later, they’re probably not going to reach back out to you. Right? She said, It’s too big for anybody to get their head around. It’s just too much. So instead of if you need anything, let me know what if instead, you said, you know, if you need help with dropping the kids off at school, or if you need help with, you know, getting gas for your car, or if you need help with, you know, and we’ll talk a little bit more about this later. But the word anything is just way too vague. Three, you put a lot you’re actually taking inadvertently, most likely, but you’re actually putting the pressure back on them. Right? Because you’re now saying to them, you have to come up with the thing that I can help you with, right? and then and that’s awkward for them. Maybe it’s like, you know, again, they can’t think of it in the moment when they do think of it it’s too late for them reach out to you.

Lesley Logan 28:30
Yeah, I just think like there are some simple things just drop off some Visa gift cards y’all like they can just …(Brad: cash totally I mean) like also, I will never forget I remember when my grandfather died. We brought a Costco size container of toilet paper. And my mom’s like, oh, no, I read like, you shouldn’t just bring food because they people’s fridges are not that big. And you’re having a funeral, everyone is bringing food, or they’re bringing flowers. I’m bringing toilet paper, because there’s many more people in that house and normally are there. And like, she probably hasn’t probably what is the size that she buys? Like a six pack? You know, for two people. So like, you bring a big thing about big thing and napkins and like, it sounds like yes, you look a little strange walking into a funeral with a big bag of toilet paper, but no one ran out.

Brad Crowell 30:32
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s totally. So you know, the, when you’re saying, you’re actually putting the pressure back on them. And, you know, that’s kind of awkward. But if you were specific, you know, then it doesn’t, you’re not putting the pressure back on them. Or you can say to them, Hey, if you can’t think of anything right now, I will check back in with you in a week. Right? And then we can have that conversation, when you know what, you know, at a different time, that’s better for you. And number four, she said people are generally reluctant to ask for help, you know, even if you’ve offered, and this, when you say, Hey, let me know, if you need anything, you’re actually adding an additional burden on them who they’re in an extremely vulnerable state right now. Unless they’re your bestie. Like I said, they’re probably never going to reach back out. So yeah, you know, it’s, I didn’t realize that one, you know, phrase that we probably think is actually helping is absolutely not helping.

Lesley Logan 31:32
No, in fact, I sorry, because I interviewed her a while back. And you know, our friends were going through, like some travel stuff and like, somewhat like they are having trouble. And I said, Do you need any help with the dogs? Right? I can come by we can come it help with the dogs? And she said, No, I don’t think so. I said, you’re overwhelmed right now. I’m gonna text you tomorrow. And just make sure that you don’t need any help with the dogs. And I did. I said, Hey, just double checking. Do you need help with the dogs? And because it was specific enough, she and like, I knew I could handle, I knew I could take that on. Like, that’s also a very important thing.

Brad Crowell 32:08
Yeah. Like, it doesn’t put you in overwhelm, right?

Lesley Logan 32:11
Because then then you’re no good to anybody. And we’ll talk about more about that in a bit catching up. So it’s like, maybe take a moment and just ask yourself, ask yourself right now, what could I help out with? What are some things that I could actually help people do? Like, what would that be? And then also, maybe think about, if I was going through something, what would I really need to make sure was happening? Like, you know, like, and then just make that list? So that either way, you’re like, kind of ready to go and you feel very prepared? I don’t know. That’s what I would do. I was just thinking like, someone needs to make sure they can call the dog poop guy.

Brad Crowell 32:47
Yeah, prepared for catastrophe. All right. Finally, let’s talk about those Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo with Kim Hamer? I’m gonna hop in here. So she said, actually think if you’re the friend of someone who you know, may be going through catastrophe. Think about what specific offering you could give to them.

Lesley Logan 33:20
Oh, I just got got really excited I just gave (…)

Brad Crowell 33:24
Well, you did it from the perspective of I’m, I may go through catastrophe. What I could need help with? Yeah, this is the reverse. This is the friend. You’re the friend of the person who’s going through the catastrophe. Why not think about it now ahead of time? What is your giving superpower? What is the one amazing thing that you know, without a shadow of a doubt that they you could help with and be, you know, and do it enjoy and all the things and you know, I thought it was really interesting. She said that her superpower is cleaning kitchens. She’s like, hey, you know what, I would love to come over to your place and give me four hours, I’m going to tear your kitchen apart and clean the whole damn thing and set you up. Right? Oh, that’s crazy. That would be an amazing way to support someone in you know, a moment when they probably can’t even think about it. You know? And also what happens when you’re in grief. If you’ve ever gone through a really dark part of your life. Guess what you don’t do? You don’t do the fucking dishes. You don’t, just don’t do them. Right? You probably start buying paper plates, you can just throw things out or you just leave it in the sink. I mean, I’ve been there, you know. So that is like an incredible offer. And they may feel embarrassed, but you’re there to support like get them you know, back to a place where at least they’re back to zero in the kitchen or you know, back to level in the kitchen so that what can you do for them? Maybe you are a mechanic. Maybe you are a dog walker, maybe you are, you’ve got kids yourself and you can you know take them to the park or something, I don’t know. But what is your superpower that you could offer to help them out in a moment of need? And that’s something thing that what if you think about this ahead of time, guess what you’re not saying, hey, what can I, can I do anything for you? No, now you’re saying, Hey, can I, you know, like, can I put a stamp on your mail for the next month? So you don’t have to deal with it. Can I, I don’t know, whatever it is that you can do.

Lesley Logan 35:16
I love that. I think it’s a great one.

Brad Crowell 35:17
Yeah, I also think I said it already. But, you know, offering more than once is really important. Because, you know, I feel like again, as the as the friend of someone going through it, it’s really easy for us to say well, I offered, so yeah, and then you can like brush your hands off.

Lesley Logan 35:34
Yeah, it kind of goes into we’ll talk about a little bit it might be an action item, so she talked a few things that I want to address, because I think this is a really good Be It stuff. So if you’re going through grief, feeling your feelings, she said, get those feelings out of your head, she wants you to have a good cry, be pissed, write it down. But really, most importantly, whatever you’re feeling, let that, let all that out. Because it’s, if you suppress those emotions, if you just try to like cattle have it all together, it can unintentionally affect you at work, can affect your family, can affect everything. And, like, as people are expect, if you go through a loss, people expect you that it’s okay. And also like from Krista’s thing, like, we all handle the grief differently. So some people might be delayed. So if you aren’t crying right away, like, there’s nothing wrong with you. But like when you do have those feelings, go ahead and feel them. And then we talked about, for those who are the friends, it’s not about you…(Brad: it’s not about you) said put yourself in their shoes. I think that will also help with like, knowing what to say, or knowing what to offer is putting yourself in their shoes, like what would you need, if you’re in that situation? Allow yourself to feel emotions for them and what they’re going through. She said, The person you’re trying to help will feel if the emotions, she’ll feel it. And they may be completely unable to articulate what they’re feeling and that you’re going to feel them. And so if you are trying to suppress things, trying to be like fine, everything’s fine, I’m fine. I’m fine. So that you can be fine.

Brad Crowell 42:02
Yeah, if you’re pretending that everything’s normal, it’s not normal. And actually, one thing that I found really, really interesting was when you you actually said this to her, you know, when people they don’t want to share a win with me, because I experienced grief. I’m experiencing grief. And my friend decided not to share that they were engaged. And they thought, well, I don’t want to, like I don’t want to make them feel bad, that I’m having success in my life or a win in my life or something joyous when they’re feeling like shit right now. And for the person going through the grief, you know, yeah, I guess it could come across though. If you’re, if you’re rubbing it in their face, then don’t be an asshole. But they also want to know that life is still going on that they’re, you know, it can make you don’t want to be caught out of the loop. It makes them feel more isolated.

Lesley Logan 42:51
Exactly. Yep. And then she said, if they don’t call you, it’s not because they’re mad at you. Right? It’s understand that the person doesn’t reach is not a reflection of your actions. They have so many bigger things to deal with. So just empathize with their situation and prioritize their needs over personal concerns. And she said, send them a lot of love. Yeah, sent them a lot of love. And I think we don’t want (…)

Brad Crowell 43:12
Even just a message of like, Hey, I was just thinking about you. I love you.

Lesley Logan 43:16
Yeah. And not and not expecting anything back in return. So anyways, I know, we did two episodes on grief, you guys. She actually does grief in the workplace talks because, like she was at, she noticed how to her work. Like, no one really knew how to handle it. And like, there’s people like all the time, like, you know, I remember like, one of our friends. They were supposed to go on maternity and paternity leave and they lost the baby. Right? And like, the workplace wasn’t really able to work. They didn’t just didn’t know what to do.

Brad Crowell 43:49
Oh yeah, my co worker died. He was like, my, I reported to him. And then all sudden, like, he wasn’t, he was gone. And and like, you know, I think, I think my office like they came through and we’re like, hey, you know, we’re gonna have like a, we’re gonna have a moment as a team, you know, for Steven was his name. And but it still didn’t like, that was a good first start. I’m glad that happened. But then after that, it was as if he was never there. And that was weird as fuck.

Lesley Logan 44:20
Yeah, that’s really weird. And I think people don’t really know, and it’s like gets work. But does that mean that like, you’d have relationship with this person. So it’s like, it’s just so I think it’s really great. That’s why she’s coming in Agency to talk with us because like, I always remember like, oh my god, what if my 9am clients are dead? Like, yeah, you know, like, that’s not, that’s like a whole different way of losing a client. So at any rate, you guys, I hope that this really helps you Be It Till You See It when it comes to these like, not so fun, exciting things to talk about in our lives that will happen. So I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell 44:52
and I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan 44:52
Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you going to use these tips in your life? We want to know. So tag Kim Hamer, tag the Be It pod and until next time. Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell 45:01
Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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