Navigating Friendships

& Moving Forward

Ep. 97 ft. Laurie Jabbar

“Don’t be afraid of the light.”

Laurie Jabbar

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Laurie Jabbar is one of the co-hosts for the thriving podcast “She’s a 10 Times 5.” Launched in the beginning of 2021 with the goal of helping women navigate their “second acts,” by rediscovering their purpose and recognizing the many amazing opportunities that come with a new chapter in life. Their listeners are looking for a sense of sisterhood when they tune in, and a feeling they are hanging out around a fire with a glass (or two) of wine with their girlfriends. The podcast has been featured in “Ask Us Beauty” magazine as “Media We Love,” and the She’s a 10 girls and their inspiring guests share the good, bad and ugly while lifting one another up.

Show Notes

Everything from West Point to friendships to seizing new opportunities. Laurie Jabbar brings to life how her fireside chats with friends transformed to a co-hosted podcast and the reality of navigating the next step.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • An opportunistic’s path to success
  • Finding your path through the failures
  • Great friends vs life friends
  • Don’t Drop the Ball on Title IX
  • Pilates in the metaverse
  • Embrace the light to see great things happen




Lesley Logan 0:00
Hey, Be It babes. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It podcast. Hello, how are you I got a great, amazing guest for you and she is, she is fire, she is salty. She is a world of knowledge. Honestly, she’s lived many, many lives. And you’ll hear her even say she’s a cat, she’s got nine lives. And I love that because I do, I do want to make sure you hear stories from different people whose lives are not linear. And who have have have failed at things and gotten back up and who’ve lived lives and have had tough conversations. And so this week’s guest is really going to zero in on some of those things about failure and about conversations and relationships and boundaries. And I’m really excited for you to hear it. She is also an amazing, one of the amazing two hosts of the She’s a 10 Times 5 Podcast. And I really love, I love their podcasts, I find their guests really fun to listen to. And so I hope that this just gives you a little taste of who they are and what they’re up to. And, you know, take a listen, take some notes, listen to her BE IT action at the end. It’s one of my favorites. And actually, I’d recently heard a very similar way that and that being spoken and I think it’s true. I think it’s so true. And I’m not gonna tell you what it is until you listen to the end. And I’d love to hear from you afterwards. I’d love to hear from you about the fear that you might be facing. So I know that scary. It’s something that we did at our Pilates business retreat we made everyone tell each person in the group what they’re afraid of. But if you, I won’t blast it, we don’t have to share it on the on the socials. But I’m just telling you if you actually acknowledge what you’re afraid of and you say it out loud, it takes a lot of the power away, it really really does. And so with that being said I want to get into this amazing interview with Laurie because she is just a delight and she is a woman to not like to who you would probably want to be on your best friends and depending on who you are and where you live that might be impossible. So take a listen and then let us know how you are you using her advice, her tips, her BE IT action is on your life. Tag She’s a 10 Times 5, tag to @be_it_pod and let us know. And here’s Laurie.

Lesley Logan 2:15
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guest will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

Lesley Logan 3:00
All right, Be It listeners I have I mean, she really is the one and only Laurie Jabbar here and she is one half of a hot podcast couple it, couplet – She’s a 10 Times 5. We met because of being in the same magazine together, which is just so fun how things worked out. There’s divine appointments for all of us. And she has an incredible story. I got to listen to all of it. On one of the episodes, they had over at a She’s a 10 Times 5. And I just, it’s it’s inspirational. And it just shows that like life is not linear. So Laurie, thanks for being here. Tell everyone who you are and what you’re doing when you’re you know, when you’re in your home in San Diego, live in life.

Laurie Jabbar 3:40
Live in life. Yeah. While you was a saying that, you know, I just got back from Texas visiting my son at Texas Christian for moms weekend. So it’s good to be home. But I’m you know, I’m in recovery mode. No doubt about it. (Lesley laughs) I can’t keep up with those young men. So I, yes, I live down in San Diego and I am part of a duo called She’s a 10 Times 5 and it’s a podcast. But more than that, it has been an amazing platform to really support women and meet new women. And just like you said, serendipitously we’re in the same magazine, which is a fabulous magazine. I just love it’s everything about sisterhood. I got to meet you (Lesley: I know…) and here we are. We’re gonna chop it up today.

Lesley Logan 4:24
We are, we are. Everyone it’s Ask Us Beauty. We’ll put the link in the show notes. But I got a bunch of issues of it because of course I have to frame the article. And then I wanted us to have it out. So people go, “Oh, wait, that’s you.” It’s like, “Yes, that’s me.” (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 4:38
Yeah, that was a great issue. They had some really great interviews in that magazine. And I’m not a magazine person, but I read it cover to cover just because of the stories, they were so great.

Lesley Logan 4:47
They’re so great. So okay, um, your podcast … now but is like, how did that become a thing? How did you go. “I’m gonna do a podcast.” How like, what were you doing before that, that made that even a thing in your ideas.

Laurie Jabbar 5:03
Well, I turned 50 in 2019, August 30th. I’m a Virgo. If you listen, you’ll know. So, I, it wasn’t a great birthday for me. For some reason, I absolutely dreaded the idea of becoming half a century old. There you have it, right. So …

Lesley Logan 5:20
… the other way did describe it. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 5:22
No, no. And everyone thought I was going to have this fantastical, phenomenal 50th birthday party because we do throw good parties at our house or that were that family. And I just was like, “No, I’m not going to do it. I’m not going to do it.” And instead, I pivoted and did 50 random acts of kindness, which was amazing. If you ever have a chance to do that. It’s it’ll warm your heart and it does have halo effect. And I started a group called the Fireside Chatters. And it was a group of ladies that we have raised our kids together, we have stood shoulder to shoulder, we lock arms, we can tell secrets, we’re all a vault. And I said, “You know what, I want to start this group chat. And it’s going to be called the Fireside Chatter.” So the idea is that what would we really be talking about with a glass of wine in our hand (Lesley: Yeah) sitting next to a fireplace, or a fire pit. And it wouldn’t be the bullshit that you see on social media. It would be you know, “My husband’s an asshole today. I’m worried about my kids. One’s going sideways, the other ones.” So we started this group and then flash forward to 2020 the pandemic hit. And this group chat went into friggin overdrive. (Lesley: Yeah) I mean, we were on that thing 20 times a day lifting each other up, laughing, someone would say, “I’m having a hard day” which would prompt a call from someone. It really became like this virtual …

Lesley Logan 6:45
Was this only got a text chain? Was it like in a WhatsApp group? Like when did you just like just or did just like you’re all 50, so you’re just a regular text messages?

Laurie Jabbar 6:54
Regular texting … (Lesley laughs) Yes, we’re old. Yeah. Yeah. And it became this virtual oasis of sisterhood. And we it was such a blessing and two months into the pandemic, I was on a walk. Well, what’s really funny is, it was called the Fireside Chatters and then evolved into the Salty Fireside Chatters. And then the Salty Manic Fireside Chatters. And then we just became the Salties. And everyone would talk about the Salty Group. It was just, it was (Lesley: Okay) hilarious.

Lesley Logan 7:24
So so it’s at the top of the texting just … you know, just kept changing the name on the top of the text. (Laurie: Yup) I love this. I love it. I also do think the Salties is like a really great name for any group. I feel like you guys should be a band. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 7:39
Well, that’s, that’s in the works. I’m kidding. (Lesley laughs) If you heard me sing which I sing a lot. I’m a songbird, you don’t want me to start a band. But so I was on a walk with one of the Salties and I’m like, “When, we get out of this shit. You know, we had to do something with our lives. This is the new front nine, not the back nine, you know, if nothing else that we learned from this whole quarantine and pandemic is that we got a we all live.” (Lesley: Yeah) And so she’s like, “You know what?” She goes, “You need to do something with this whole thing.” And she encouraged me to do podcast. And so that’s what I did. (Lesley: I love…) And here we are …

Lesley Logan 8:13
I love it. Thanks for taking us on that journey. I I think we’ve had a couple other guests, women groups, and they talked about, like, the importance of a sisterhood. And I think like, no matter how evolved, technology gets or we think we get as human beings. That entire like we used to be in tribes of women spending time together, taking care of each other, there was like women whose jobs were to take care of the women who are having their cycle and there was women whose jobs would take care of the babies so that the mom could… Like there was all these things that we did to support each other and now we just put each other in our own houses with our own things and we’re like, “You should be able to handle that. No problem just like do it up”. So, I love that you create, like recreated that. And that it it really led you to doing this podcast and you do it with a lovely co partner.

Laurie Jabbar 9:02
Yes, Lisa O’Coyne. And we, it’s what’s really great is our two youngest are seniors in high school and there she has three girls, I have two boys and our youngest, their best of friends. In fact, we’re get… we’re going to have them on our podcast, just to talk about this empty nester thing. And then her two older girls are at Texas Christian. (Lesley: Oh, where your son is?) Yeah, so we have this, yeah, we have all these things and and we have a really good time. And I think you know, when you do a podcast with with another guest or another host, I think you really have to find the yin to your yang. So and we’ve done that, you know, (Lesley laughs) I’m the spicy meatball, and she’s the warm voice of reason. So it’s it’s been a blast.

Lesley Logan 9:46
I think that’s true for anything, I think, I mean, you have many businesses, so we could probably talk about that too. But like, because I work with my husband. People are like, “Oh my gosh, like what like what do you think that, how does that how do you do that?” Like, “Well, we’re very different.” (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: Yeah) Like, like we and it’s gonna be very challenging because like, it’s you want it to be done the way that you want to be done, but also they challenge you to get out of your comfort zone or to either lift, you know, tone it down or lift it up or, or clarify in a different way. I think it could be really good. So, I can’t believe you guys have all those things in common. It’s like, are you neighbors too? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 10:22
We’d live a stones throw? Yes. Yeah. Well, it’s interesting you say that about your husband, because I was married to exactly the kind of guy you would think I would be married to. And we were college sweethearts. And we got married right out of the West Point Military Academy. And I was stationed in one place in Germany, and he was stationed in a place, but we were so much alike, that I think we just collectively agreed we made great friends. But you know, the marriage just, you know, and then I ended up marrying someone that is completely my opposite and it works. It just works.

Lesley Logan 10:55
So let’s talk about that because you you just mentioned that you went to West Point. And I think a lot of people listening here might have heard of it, but might not know what it means. Can you talk about like, is that something you always wanted to do? Was that like on your like, list, as a high schooler, “I want to go to West Point for College,” or was that just something that you thought you could do? What was …

Laurie Jabbar 11:14
… no fucking way did I have that in my plan. I was a class clown. I was the free spirit. And, and so basically, how that evolved was, I was recruited athlete. I really, really wanted to go to Stanford. I was getting my sophomore year was my, it was my year. And I went through some personal stuff. But that was my year that I really got on the radar with track and field and cross country and I got injured. And so it’s coming back off a stress fracture, I just kind of was never the same runner. So the Stanford ticket was not going to be an option for me. So I went to Plan B and I met these guys. And they said, “You should go to West Point.” And I had no idea what it was, I saw video and I go, “Well, that’s really cool. And oh, by the way, it’s free.” And literally, none of my family were military. So it was really kind of out of left field that I did that. But it was kind of an it was God’s plan for me to go basically, yeah.

Lesley Logan 12:17
Yeah, yeah, that’s it’s kind of that’s, um, that’s how you know that there’s like something out there that’s like, kind of planning it out for us. Because how would those people have like entered your lives, you know, you’d have no one else in your family who’s like, “You should be doing this, or this is what we do or here’s an idea,” you know, that like those random meetings that are actually so perfect. You know, I was across country and hike and track runner, not as good to Stan… no one in California was looking at me. I retired (Lesley laughs) my senior year, I was like, “You know what, since I’m not going to get a scholarship, I think I’m gonna take a break from all this running thing.” And I ended up picking it back up in my 20s. And because of Pilates, I ended up with so few injuries, I have none, no problems from running at all. But I ran … I won the Los Angeles City half marathon. And I thought, “Oh my gosh, maybe this is maybe now, I’m peaking. Maybe this is the time, I should get (Laurie: there you go) back into running. And then and then I actually got really happy and I really liked my life. And my time started getting slower and slower and slower. And I was like, “No, I think I was just really unhappy, then I think just running off (Laurie: You were angry) stress and anger.” (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 13:24
Yeah. Yeah, you were. Well …

Lesley Logan 13:26
So what … So let’s talk so after West Point, like, what did you do? Because you’re so you had fif… you’re over 50 now, which I mean, who counts the two years of the pandemic, (Laurie: Stop it) so you’re 50. (Lesley laughs) But like, what did you, you know, you have this whole life and you’ve had now two marriages, and you have these amazing kids and you’ve got this podcast. And what is it that you really sought, like, is any of it planned out? Or was it all kind of like, “I’m interested in this now and now I’m doing this.” Like, what, how did you, how did you take yourself from West Point to where you are today?

Laurie Jabbar 14:00
Well, first of all, I was one of the first female graduating classes. So it was no easy track, and especially with my personality type. So getting through the gauntlet of the military academy, you, the rigor, the academics, all of it, it kind of gave me like a little bit of a steel exterior, like I can take on anything, you know, throw it at me babe. And so when I got out of the military, I decided to do something totally foreign and very opposing to the training I got, which was high tech. Because, you know, that was, you know, as I moved to the Bay Area, I started working in the consulting realm and working with all of these emerging, rad, free thinking people and companies and there were no rules. And so you take me out of the constructs of the military academy and then being a captain in the military, right, where I have people enter, and now I’m in like the wild west of the high tech world. So long way midway to answer your question is, I think that I have been very opportunistic. So I don’t think that there’s ever been really a plan, I see something. And a lot of times just take a leap of faith based on I’ll figure it out, I can do it. And I do think it’s really important. And I tell this to my kids all the time, “You have to love what you do,” you know, we get, we get on this pathway of what is success, and some people define it financially. And some people, you know, define it through their egos or whatever. But if you’re, if you’re not doing something that you’re happy about, I just don’t think you find success. (Lesley: Yeah) I think it’s, I think you chase, you chase something that you never get to be able to grab hold of that tail. So that’s kind of what I did, I have I’ve always led my life with my heart. And if I see something I’m feel passionate about I I tend to want to lean 100% in.

Lesley Logan 15:53
Yes. So I couldn’t agree more. I love that that kind of definition of success, because you can have multiple successes in your life. But the leaping part I get, I love to leap, I actually find it, it’s like exhilarating, scary, freeing, all at the same time. I think that’s where people get stuck. What do you tell yourself before you leap? Like, is there a is there a thing you tell yourself? Is it because of like that you could take this class clown and put her in West Point and she can become a captain? Like, is it because of that experience? Or is there something you say to yourself before you leap?

Laurie Jabbar 16:27
Well, you know, my husband says it. And then I try to say it. Because I said earlier, I’m a Virgo, so I am a little bit OCD. So I’m not completely ready fire aim. But what’s the worst that can happen? And you have to weigh those, you have to weigh it. “What is the worst that can happen? Am I gonna hurt someone. Am I going to lose my livelihood? Am I going to be embarrassed.” And so if it’s, if it nets down to just, you know, I’m being afraid of failure, I just say, “fuck it.” You know, because failure, failure is one of the best things that you can go through. Because nine times out of 10 you fail at something, you hit that brick wall and whatever you find out who your people are, because they’re there to dust you off and pick you up and two, you know, normally find like, “Okay, that that didn’t work out but there’s there’s a secondary plan B and pathway for me.” And so I I’m all about like a couple failures under your belt. And I think it’s a great thing.

Lesley Logan 17:23
I couldn’t agree. I as a recovering perfectionist, what I have discovered is like every time I fail like …

Laurie Jabbar 17:30
Recovering? Let’s be honest. (Lesley: Recovering) Come on. (Lesley: Yeah) Recovering, you know, you did a long way to go when your recovery, (Lesley: Yeah) you are perfectionist and I love it.

Lesley Logan 17:39
… when you’re but I think it’s like you’ll always, I’m always going to be a recovering perfectionist because like, I think to actually be recovered might be my perfectionist going, “See we did it.” (Lesley laughs) But recovering perfectionist, recovering overachiever. I have, of course failure seeing and they get a little frustrating. But there is something really unique about especially with your work for yourself being able to go, “Okay, what did we do there? What can we learn here? How do we strike? How do we try again?” And if you work for a company, I mean, hopefully there’s a team that does that they, you know, usually do that. But I find that like, once you get a few failures, as you mentioned, they sting less, and they become a little bit more welcome. There’s like a little bit more of like, “Oh, okay, I’m gonna learn something for this. I’m gonna meet people, I’m gonna have to collaborate differently.” Definitely keeps things spicy, because you’re not doing the same thing all the time if you’re failing a little bit here and there.

Laurie Jabbar 18:32
Yeah, I know, I tell my kids because you know, you, they only hear about the successes. And I try to remind them, God, I’ve got a whole world of mistakes and things, you know, we’re all human. And me, no, but you know, they’re living in an age. And I think, you know, we’re all living in an age where everything is out there for consumption by and in large. And we tend to only share the highlight reels. So we don’t really get to relate to the side of failure that is so very important. So that’s, you know, it’s a shame, I think that we have to present this image that we always are on and, you know, everything’s okay. And our relationships are perfect. And it’s all a bunch of horseshit, you know.

Lesley Logan 19:18
Yeah. Well, it is, and it’s, and it’s true, because if you were to put out all the thoughts that happened during the day. A lot of people be like, “Wow, she’s just like me,” and other people would be like, “Knew it. Spotted it.” (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: Yup. Yeah) And it’s, and it is, so it is hard to feel safe that you can do that. I find like, what I like about podcasting that’s different than social media is that you can have those honest conversations and you can also share the highlights. You can also have the bio and you can also have the things and you can be a whole person and it is easier to have it in a context that like makes it all, make sense as opposed to like, “This morning I really didn’t like today. I didn’t like the day at all.” I was like, “Why am I up? What is happening?” (Lesley laughs) But by the (Laurie: Yeah) end of the day, you know, so I think it’s really, I think it’s important. I think that for those who have kids like sharing that with them is also very important. But also, I think just reminding ourselves that it’s not about that. How do you and Lisa do that? Is it because you have kids you are able to remind yourselves constantly? Or is it is it some, like some sort of practice that you do that, like not everything is the highlights you’re seeing?

Laurie Jabbar 20:21
Well, I think by bringing on really great guests that want to tell their story. I think gives us a sense of community and confidence that, “Okay, we’re all a little bit messy.” That is something I didn’t anticipate. One is that, I think women our age, and our generation, you know, I think we weren’t really kept secrets close to the chest, we were told, we don’t talk about those things. And now I think we’re at a point in our lives, where we recognize missed opportunities. And so we’re more apt to share our story and put it out there and support one another through that. So I think, you know, having these vulnerable discussions, I think, has inspired us to also go in that direction and feel confident with doing it as well.

Lesley Logan 21:14
Yeah. And also, like, going back to what you and your husband say is like, what what’s the worst that could happen if you share the story like …

Laurie Jabbar 21:21
Your kids disown you …

Lesley Logan 21:24
I mean, it sounds like it’s cheaper if they do that. Right? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 21:27
Yeah, thank you. After this weekend, yes. You know what that, that is a that is a valid point because I do think one of the things too, as, as women, with if you have kids, I think that definitely weighs into our lens as well, because I think we do have this innate mama bear pressure to, you know, not embarrassed them, or, you know, you don’t want their judgment and you want them to be proud of you. And, you know, there’s going to be some things that, you know, in this podcast is one of them. I think it took my youngest a really long time to get his arms around. And he’s like, “What are you doing? Why are you talking about those things?” And now, it’s like, he’s like, “Okay, this is cool.” You know, so, but (Lesley: Yeah) I do think that that’s a roadblock for a lot of women is like, you know.

Lesley Logan 22:11
I think you’re right, I want to like, like, as I think about people, being it until they see it, as like women taking a hold or whatever they want to be or acting like the person they want to be. I do I think whether you have kids or just people in your family, like I do think that the opinion of others holds us back on, on on showing up the way we want to show up because, well, “What if our kids are gonna say? What are our parents gonna say? Like, what our family’s gonna say?” Was that a conversation you had to have with your kids? Like, “I’m doing this anyways and it’s probably going to embarrass you.”

Laurie Jabbar 22:45
Um, no. (Lesley laughs) Well, my oldest was he he’s off at college, but my youngest, you know, because the Studio 50 is actually at my house. And so we had discussions and whatnot. And we’ve had some pretty provocative topics. And I will tell them, I’m like, “This is one you don’t want to listen to. Like, don’t even listen to the video sound btye because it’s going to,” you know.

Lesley Logan 23:06
Did they listen to the cougar episode? (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 23:10
… I hope not. No, we released one today, which, which is about non monogamous relationships. And that’s another one I kind of hope they stay clear of. (Lesley laughs) But, but you know, yeah, I so I, I think I think it was when we got the support of our friends, to, to do something. You know, that that was another meaningful way. And I think if you surround yourself, I always say, “the air you breathe in as the air you breathe out.” And if you’re bringing, you know, positive, you know, vibrations and relationships to the table with you, then it just makes everything more easy.

Lesley Logan 23:49
Yeah, it’s true. I mean, it… the we have to no matter what our ages, we have to be watching the people we surround ourselves with, because it is true, like their thoughts on things, their drive on things, their worry, and it all becomes something that’s part of you and your orbit and your opinion of what you can do and what’s possible. And it’s, it’s interesting, I find easy for me, I moved out of high school, I moved right after high school, and then I moved out after college. And so like, I’ve always I’ve spent a life of creating friendships that fulfill my life. And if I’m with the place I live is no longer fulfilling. I move and some people come with me, and some people don’t. But I do find a lot of people have a hard time letting go of certain family members, obviously, it’s family and friendships that have been around for a long time. Was that is that something you had to learn how to let go of? Is that something you’ve just like kind of figured out a way to like, what do you show there versus what you show other people? What is, what is your method to making sure you can show up fully?

Laurie Jabbar 24:51
That is such a great question that actually I had a discussion with another mom this weekend. I think that I’ve learned two things. One is that your great friends are always there for you, in the time of need. Your lifers are there in your time and need, and they’re your cheerleader. It’s not always easy for people to be happy for success. And I’ve learned that, you know, you do have those friends that they, there, they’re just happy when things are going well. And they’re the first ones to say, atta girl and cheer you on. So I think what I have done very successfully over the past few years, and not my whole life, and let me tell you, is understanding what’s important for me in a relationship. And, and then what are my deal breakers? You know, because we are all flawed, and no relationship is perfect, right? But there are certain things that I’ve come to recognize, “Okay, that is a deal breaker for me.” And being able to remove, you know, set those boundaries and remove that energy out of my life. And it’s not an easy thing to do, especially if it’s been a long standing relationship. (Lesley: Yeah) Yeah. (Lesley: Yeah) So yeah, like, you know, you have to be honest, and I think that’s what I’ve been, over the past few years, I think when I’ve had things go maybe sideways, or experiences not gone well, in a relationship, it’s probably because I’m not honest with myself or that individual, whether it’s a family member or a friend, where you know, you kind of stuff your feelings down, you don’t confront things. And what I’ve really tried to do, and also encourage my friends to do is, “Okay, we… be honest about it. If this is bugging you, let’s like talk about it, let’s chop it up, let’s figure it out. And, and when you do that, and you don’t stuff it down,” because it tends to come out in passive aggressive ways, right, if you do that. And so, yeah, so being honest, is for me, is a number one.

Lesley Logan 26:55
Yeah. And I think that requires like being honest with yourself. So I love that you talked about like, getting to know like, what matters to you and what your deal breakers are? Because then it might be difficult to be honest with someone else if you’re, like, unsure of why this is bothering you. So I do think some self exploration and understanding and, and having those tough conversations, I think, you know. I think it’s Tim Ferriss, we’ve talked about this before on the podcast, but like, you know, your success is like correlated to the amount of tough conversations you’ll have. And I don’t think it’s a success in business. I think it’s success in life. Like if you’re really wanting to have deep meaningful relationships, there’s going to be like actual conversations you have to have or share with someone to have that kind of closeness and have and make sure that they’re on the same page as you when it comes to some things because they might not even know that they’re hurting your feelings, because they didn’t know that that was a deal breaker for you.

Laurie Jabbar 27:39
Yeah, you know, it’s, I’m a salesperson, Biz.. biz, dev, sales through and through. And I always tell people, the best salespeople, listen. You know what I’m saying? Like they, they we all assume that they’re, they’re the talkers, the Jerry Maguire, is that work the room and there is a little bit of that. But when you listen, and when you listen in relationships, and you’re an active listener, I think that it’s a very, very powerful asset to have. So, you know, I really try to listen to my friends and my family and take the step back and absorb. And, you know, there’s been so, it’s been such a crazy time in the world where I think we’re so half cocked, and we judge and you know, but if you sit back and try to listen, and then understand, you’re going to have far more powerful and positive relationships with people.

Lesley Logan 28:34
Yeah. I think that’s it, that is, that is something we need to be doing always in life. And I don’t know that we’re taught how to listen a lot when we’re younger, like you’re listening in school all day. (Laurie: Yeah) You’re not, you’re not really like taught to listen, and then you come home from school. And like you tell people like, “This is what my day was like.” And so there’s just not a lot of that night. I think you’re it’s not just in sales, but you can really hear what’s going on with a friend, if you actually just listen to her, say the day, say what was (Laurie: Yeah) going on her day, because you’ll start to you’ll the thing that she does, like kind of over, she’s mentioned it but she flipped right over it. That’s the thing. She’s just like dabbling it out there to see if you are going to catch on and talk about it. And she might not even know she’s doing it consciously, you know, so.

Laurie Jabbar 29:15
You know, sometimes it’s just a matter of, you get a vibe, if you pay attention, you get a vibe and asking the question, “Is everything… talk to me. Is there something you want to talk about? Do you want to…” You know, I tend to do that a lot. And, and I’m a sponge for emotion, so I have to be careful. Right. You know, the only the other thing I wanted to say is that, you know, well, the kind of circling around this confrontation (Lesley: Mm-hmm) topic. Right? So you listen, and you’d be honest with yourself and others and that means confrontation at times and confrontation is not always a bad thing. You know, confronting the way you feel, confronting a situation with that transparency. You just got to know whether or not the confrontation has you got to go in with it? There’s a reason why you’re doing it. Because sometimes it’s it’s not even worth confronting. (Lesley: Right) You know, that’s the other thing is like, that’s not a deal breaker or that’s not like, I’m not even going to confront. Yes, she bugged me, you know, because she had too many cocktails or whatever. But that’s not a deal breaker for me, you know. Right? (Lesley: Right) Sometimes gonna confront because that’s just who she is. And then, yeah, so.

Lesley Logan 30:24
Yeah, I think you’re, I think I love the brought up, it’s not confrontations, always a bad thing. And also, like, you got to know what you want out of it. Because otherwise, you could just be practicing confrontation for the sake of it. And you know, that doesn’t always solve any problems or make you feel better. You know, um, what came to my mind? aaahhh. Well, I was thinking, as you talk about these conversations, and these questions that you ask people, is it this is gonna sound obviously, this the perfectionist. I mean, but it’s really for the listener. So you said the question, “Is everything all right?” Are there other questions that people are like, “I want to be a better listener, I want to I want to help like, listen to my friends more.” Or there are other questions that you asked that kind of fall on that line that they could just put in their little notepad so they can practice being better listeners?

Laurie Jabbar 31:14
Well, I was trying to get someone to call me back and she just was begging me and blowing me off. This is a friend of mine. And so I left her voicemail. And I said, I said, “Listen, I said, I’m in jail. And I need someone to bail me out. And I’m in your zip code. I really need you to call me.” And I did my best acting like I was Sally Field. Okay. Like, it was Oscar worthy performance on the voicemail. And no, I’m kidding. (Lesley laughs) You know, I think it just depends on what relation, I think you just did the asking the questions and being in tune with tone. And, you know, you can’t do that overtax your email, and I, like, literally, I’m one of those people, I’m so old school where, let’s just get on the fucking phone. Like, I can’t, I don’t know where this is coming from. And so I think that, you know, taking that time, and you know, we were also busy, you know, we’re on the little, we’re on the hamster wheel all the time. But sometimes we just have to stop and pick up the phone and have the conversation or invite someone, you know, out to a coffee or a walk or whatever.

Lesley Logan 32:19
Yeah, I like that. I like this, even inviting them on the partisan that you’re already doing so that you can have that talk. And we are also busy. But we’re all always so busy. And we were busy during a pandemic, when we’re supposed to be sitting at home. Like somehow we were still busy there. So I think like the, you know, anything I’ve learned about the last two years, it’s like, you make time for what matters. And if you don’t, then it, it didn’t really matter to you. And if it really does, then you have some self exploration to do because I couldn’t believe how busy I got sitting still. (Lesley laughs) You know, as I used to get more done when I traveled on a plane every week than I am right now. So (Laurie: Yeah) so Laurie, you are incredible. And you’re you’ve lived some incredible lives and some amazing things. Is there … (Laurie: I’m a cat.) (Lesley laughs) (Laurie: I’ve got 9 lives.) Are you, is there something that you are focusing on right now? Like, is there what is like the next step that you’re trying to be it till you see it? Like, what are you acting, not even having to act as if it’s not faking it? But like, what is it that you’re working on right now? Is it with Lisa and the podcast? Is it something else that you’re trying to do? Is there something you’re exploring and learning so you can do that thing?

Laurie Jabbar 33:26
You just teed me up for something fantastical. Thank you for that. So I was, you know, we talked about being a college, you know, recruited runner and I had gone through the death of my mom and my, my family just kind of was circling the drain a little bit. So the financial components to my college decision was at the top of the list. I like to joke and say, “I went to West Point” because it was 10 to one male female ratio, and I like to blow shit up. But the fact is, I went because it was free. With that being said, there is this thing called Title IX, okay. And I was blown away to find out that this is the 50th anniversary of Title IX. It’s been around 50 friggin years. (Lesley: Wow) And I found that out because Billie Jean King who has always been the woman from the, you know, way back when that has carried the flag, charge the hill for all of us, other women. And, you know, so what we’re doing is we are partnering, she’s a ten and I put together I call them the Dream Team, a bunch of ladies that really believe in the importance of Title IX, and the financial, educational and sports that it supports. So we are launching on the last day Women’s History Month. Okay, this is our pay it forward. March 31st. We are going to announce a campaign, a viral campaign. She’s a 10 Times 5 supports 50 years of Title IX. And the campaign is called, Don’t Drop the Ball on Title IX. And it’s going to be fun and it’s going to be building awareness. And we get to partner with amazing organizations and, you know. Hopefully …

Lesley Logan 35:14
This is so fun. Are you guys, I know you’re not doing like the reels and stuff that I feel like each person could be like throwing a ball.

Laurie Jabbar 35:21
That’s exactly what’s gonna happen. (Lesley: Oh, I love. I love.) So so the viral campaign is literally catching a ball of your choice, saying, “Don’t drop the ball on Title IX” and passing it to someone and challenging them. And the idea really, is to build awareness for the Billie Jean King organization and the Women’s Sports Foundation, and Title IX, because a lot of people don’t really even know that it exists. If you haven’t … Yeah, if you have a daughter …

Lesley Logan 35:50
… or misconceptions about like, what it does or what it’s done. And I think like, if you’ve, if you have a daughter then you are aware of Title IX.

Laurie Jabbar 35:57
Yeah. Or if you are an athlete, you know, or if you’re just in tune with stuff, but I was at the pickleball court, and I was telling everyone, I’m like, “I’m going to do this challenge and I’m going to build awareness,” because, you know, this is important. And, you know, we need to be giving light to some of these things. And, you know, having people lean in, and they’re like, “What the hell are you talking about? And I said, “Title IX, goddamnit, it’s 50 years,” and not one of the 10 women knew what Title IX was. So hopefully, this will inspire people to, you know, learn about it, you know, and support it.

Lesley Logan 36:30
Yeah, I agree. And I, um, you know, I think especially women in sports, it’s really powerful to see, I mean, watching women’s soccer team fight for their rights to get paid. And my father and I go to the WNBA, here in Vegas, I love it, it’s so much fun. And I just think that like, there’s so much more we can do to grow. Because if women’s sports, were getting half the attention that men’s sports did in marketing, we would be having different conversation that people would know what this Title IX is, and there, there’d be a lot more and, and the truth is, they get such a small, small, small percentage of the marketing and they have some of the most amazing athletes on those female teams, both professional and collegiately. So I think it’s really cool. I want to I want to hear more about it. And, and we’ll we’ll have to make sure that our podcast shares what you’re posting on our on our feed as well.

Laurie Jabbar 37:21
Well, that’s not even an option, I will be stalking you. (Lesley laughs)

Lesley Logan 37:25
I’m good. I’m so happy, I’m so happy about that. Oh, my God, well, that’s so fun. I love it. So thank you for sharing that because what I love about it so much as it’s like a thing that you’re doing for a purpose, for a time period. And I do think sometimes we think that whatever we have to do has to be this lifelong thing, it has to become something really huge and really big. And it can be something you’re doing for a set period of time to really spread the word about something you’re passionate about. And so I think that’s really cool.

Laurie Jabbar 37:53
Yeah, and using the platform to do it, you know, we’ve got, you know, a very vibrant, you know, guests that we’ve had, and this is right in the wheelhouse of women supporting women. So it’s kind of in line with our brand. And so if we can use our brand to do, you know, share good, you know, (Lesley: Yeah) ought to do it, right?

Lesley Logan 38:12
Well, and I think the more the more people who see people doing that, and it gets ideas to get ideas, right, so then that can like spawn the next thing, and then more people can be doing it. And so the next year, there could be for the 51st anniversary, it could be even more, but hopefully, it just we have a whole year to celebrate that 50th. And so maybe this could be the first of many things that is done to bring attention to that. And I do think like, you know, when you have a brand, there are things that can be passionate about as a brand. And using and using those passions and using your brand to bring attention to it is something we all can do.

Laurie Jabbar 38:43
Yeah. Well, you know, it’s kind of Women’s History Month. It’s kind of a shame. You know, it’s it’s a month of observance, but it’s really nebulous, like, what is it? You know, we all posted on Women’s International Day because, you know, but then on to the next, right. And I think our message is, you know, this Title IX affects women, mostly high school and college every single day. So, let’s keep the month of women’s history, let’s keep it rolling (Lesley: Yeah) and and spread the love. You know, Lisa has three girls and she’s got a division one athlete, I have two boys. And what’s important for me is that I set the right example because they need to see that supporting women is an important thing. And sometimes I think men get in their own little heads and, you know, so (Lesley: Yeah) it’s also setting an example for our kids that, “Hey, we’re going to pay it forward for the people coming up the pike.”

Lesley Logan 39:37
Yeah, I love that. I think that’s amazing. Okay, Laurie so where do y’all hang out on the socials? Is it the gram? Are you on Tik Tok? Where do where do people get to stalk you?

Laurie Jabbar 39:48
We are on the Gram and it’s at She’s a 1 0 Times (T i m e s) 5, @shesa10times5. That’s where most of us, you know, go and then we’re on all of the platforms, Apple, Spotify, etc., for the podcast.

Lesley Logan 40:06
Your podcast is so fun to listen to you have such a variety of guests and I learned so much. Well, and also you also had episode with a Bitcoin guy and I was like, (Laurie: Yeah) “Oh, great.” You know what someone’s going to talk about in regular words that I can understand. Perfect. I’m very excited … (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 40:20
Did you got your plot a land in the metaverse yet?

Lesley Logan 40:23
I have really been stalling on that. I think I’m gonna have to, have …

Laurie Jabbar 40:26
Pilates studio in the metaverse. I’m seeing it. I’m feeling …

Lesley Logan 40:29
I know with my favorite leggings. And then you can buy my lipsticks and all the things. I … (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 40:34
Yeah and a tee, baby.

Lesley Logan 40:35
I know. I know. I know. Brad’s like we’re making enough tees of you and I’m like, “We are?” (Lesley laughs) I’m like, I’m like, “Okay, does tell me where to smile. Where do I look?” So, okay. All right, I ask everyone and you’ve had such amazing advice. I think there’s already been some tips along the way. But we ask every guest, what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted steps can they take right now so they could be it till they see it?

Laurie Jabbar 41:03
Let me ask you this, “What is be it till you see it mean to you?”

Lesley Logan 41:06
To me, it is not waiting until you feel ready. It’s not like a lot of people will wait, “Well, when this happens? When I graduate, then I’ll do this. When my kids in high school then I’ll do this. When this happens?” And instead it’s like, acting like the person that you want to be when those things are happening right now. And then they’ll happen sooner.

Laurie Jabbar 41:26
Yeah. I love that. And I think your example was that you have a cup of coffee.

Lesley Logan 41:31
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I used to when I was single, I wanted to create space for a partner. I had a very busy schedule. So how can I create space for a partner, when I don’t really, I can’t actually physically create like two nights a week that I’m off that I could spend with this person, I don’t know. And so instead, I just made coffee for two people poured two cups and acted like I was pouring a cup for my partner. And now he pours his own coffee, but I still make it for him. (Lesley laughs)

Laurie Jabbar 41:59
I love that. Yeah. So I think from my lens, I really think it’s being courageous, and not being afraid to fail. We talked a lot about that. But somehow finding it within ourselves. Just to take the step forward, you know, when we’re feeling stuck, or if we’re in a situation that is not fulfilling or is not, you know, making us as happy as we’d like to be. You know, like Adele had great thing and I took away from when she did the Oprah interview. It wasn’t that our marriage was bad. She just wasn’t as happy as she wanted to be. Period. Right? So I think sometimes we we settle and my thing is, take a step forward, even if it seems like the tiniest little step, take a step forward in the direction that that will get you to a place of more fulfillment. You know, it’s, it’s not being as scared. You know, a lot of times we’re afraid of the dark, you know, to fail, or, you know, the scary stuff. But really, I think a lot of people are afraid of the light because that’s, you know, it’s even scarier that, “God could I be this person,” you know. You know, one of our guests, Barbara Majeski, was just so great. She went through cancer, she had a dumpster fire of a divorce, and she just had a zero fucks attitude, or, you know, “I’m gonna do this I’m not gonna be afraid of…” And shoot, her first gig was on the Today Show, “I want to be on TV. I don’t care what people say,” you know. So she, you know, her first gig was, you know, go figure on the Today Show. And so don’t be afraid of the light because I think great things can happen when you embrace it.

Lesley Logan 43:41
I couldn’t agree more. That is a beautiful BE IT action item. Thank you. Thank you, Laurie, for being here. Give Lisa a big hug. And I can’t wait to hear more. She’s a 10 Times 5 episodes. You’re just, you’re just a delight and you I love how you share so openly about your experiences and the lessons that you’ve learned because I do think that we all learn from stories (Laurie: Yeah) and and even if I could never imagine being at West Point, I definitely listening to your story about that and others. I learned so much from you. So I’m just so grateful to have you on our podcast so that our listeners can get to know you a little bit, learn from you. And if you want more of her, check her and Lisa out on @shesa10times5. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Laurie Jabbar 44:26
Be It Till You See It, baby!

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast! One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over at the @be_it_pod on Instagram! I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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