Workplace Wellness,

Boundaries, and Owning

Mental Health

Ep. 104 with Lesley & Clare

“We all have to take part in owning our mental health and well being.”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

How was your lunch today? Did you take time to get outside or did you work right through it? Clare and LL recap a powerful conversation around workplace wellness and well being shaming. Listen to determine your game plan for balancing your workday and setting boundaries in your daily life.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • Check in to LL hobbies
  • The comeback to well being shaming
  • Personal recognization of mental health in the workplace
  • Starting the workplace wellness conversation
  • Setting the correct boundaries, even outside work
  • What envy really tells you

Episode References/Links:

  • Book: Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work: Here’s Why and How to Do it Really Well. – https://amzn.to/37OkTvd
Transcript

Lesley Logan 0:01
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan 0:46
All right, everyone. Welcome back to the Be It Till You See interview recap where my co host is my bestie, Clare Solly. She’s back and we are going to dig into a real talk convo I had with Melissa Doman in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to interview, go back, listen to it. Oh my gosh, it is so fired up. So fun. Like it’s probably the most fired up, you’ll hear anyone when they’re talking about mental health, awareness and well being shaming. So then you can go back, listen to that one, come back and join us. You can listen to Clare and I riff on it and then go back. But Clare Solly, my slingshot friend, if you’re on the YouTube channel, you saw the necklace she’s wearing. She is one it was our guests on episode 19. She’s done a couple of recaps with us. And that’s because Brad is currently in Cambodia while we’re recording this. So, Clare, thanks for being here.

Clare Solly 1:34
Hi, thanks for having me back. I’m excited. I’m remote from New York this time. I was remote from North Carolina the last year two times.

Lesley Logan 1:42
I know. It’s we’re just like catching you wherever. And it’s so fun. And also I’m just really I’m excited that you got to be, you get to listen to this. So y’all, this is the first recap we’re doing right after the interview (Clare: Right after.) So normally it gets produced there’s a whole thing. We listened to it a couple more times, we talk about it, because we wanted to get Melissa on and to get this episode to your ears during Mental Health Awareness Month while you’re thinking about it. I should be thinking about it all the time. But while everyone’s actually thinking about it right now, we had to do a little fun like, this is a trial. So we’ll hear how it goes. You let us know how we’re doing on this recap. So anyways, thanks for being here. Real quick, everyone, June 5th is the start of the Control Your Balance Challenge. So this is a free challenge where I am actually helping people who own a reformer or other Pilates equipment, do a more advanced exercise and that doesn’t mean that you have to have it down by the end of the week. We don’t do perfect, we do progress. But if you are scared to do a control balance off on the reformer or control balance on the mat because it is weird. It’s a somersault into an arabesque and somersaulting back on I hear ya, not a dancer. Those words made no sense to me when I was learning it, but I’m here to help break it down. My OPC teachers are joining us so you can go to onlinepilatesclasses.com to sign up for this challenge. Again, it’s free and it’s one week long, and you’re gonna get lots of different classes, tips and tools to do some advanced scary work. So anyways, that’s next week and alright, Clare, we normally have an audience question, but something tells me you are resurfacing that?

Clare Solly 3:19
Yes, since I am a guest hostess. I have a question for you. You and I’ve been chatting a bunch lately. I know that you’re doing the author’s way, no, The Artist’s Way. (Lesley: The Artist’s Way) So you and it’s funny every time you talk about this, it makes me giggle because I think you’re a person that always does all the things. But I want to, I want to check in on your hobbies you were testing out new hobbies. So the question is, do you have a new favorite hobby yet? And what is it or do you have a hobby that you will never do or that you just experienced recently?

Lesley Logan 3:55
That’s a good question. So I have to say I tested out this hobby of laying by the pool and I loved that. (Lesley and Clare laughs) No, I was at a cabana and people were bringing me all the things and so there is something really luxurious about that but I have to say I don’t know if you’d call it a hobby more as a habit but I want to make sure that once a month I am laying poolside somewhere if that means I have to get a hotel pass in my local area, I will. I just went to a casino yesterday and they did not need my hotel room key and I won’t say which hotel it was because I don’t want to blow their cover. But I know and I’m going to be using that pool (Lesley laughs) so that’s not my hobby. I will say I enjoyed the macro may that was really fun. I was supposed … do a loom thing, someone was gonna let me borrow their loom and I have not been able to get my hands on that yet but I really do like the idea of it. I think I’m where I’m currently in my life, I’m having fun dabbling, but I’m not ready to commit anything yet because I’m also enjoying doing nothing. And something about hobbies is it’s easy for me to busy myself with them. And I’m really trying to get a mental health. I’m really, really trying to make sure that I’m actually spending time with myself and not just like being busy all the time. So currently I do like the lira. It’s painful. It’s fun, makes me feel really cool. I do like little macro may but I’m not ready to go and like go to the craft shop and invest in anything or buy a group pass yet.

Clare Solly 5:29
I mean, my mom’s favorite hobby is napping. So I think between your pool side and her napping, (Lesley: Yeah) I am a fan.

Lesley Logan 5:37
Yeah, you’re like I’m in for both. I’m in for both. So anyways, I would love to hear what people are doing for their hobbies because I think it’s it’s fun to see what people call a hobby and like how it can be beneficial. And also like, knitting can also be a great way to decompress, too. So I just, yeah, I right now I’m just trying to make sure that I’m not overworking myself, even with my hobbies.

Clare Solly 5:59
And if you have suggestions for Lesley, tag her at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. (Lesley: Yeah) … doing your hobbies. (Lesley: Yeah) Um,

Lesley Logan 6:06
What’s your favorite hobby, though? Is it writing? (Clare: Mine?) Well, you were, you write for work. That’s not talking.

Clare Solly 6:11
I mean, hmm. I don’t know. I mean, I feel like like, and this is why I giggle whenever you say it, because I feel like anything that we start out trying as a hobby ends up being we find a way to make money out of it. (Clare laughs) So I would say like writing is my hobby, but I feel like it’s like it’s a side profession at the moment. (Lesley: Yeah) Um, I feel you know, what my favorite hobbies got to be reading. Like, I’ve always been an avid voracious reader. Especially like, I’m a self help junkie. So I’ll go read a self help book, just like to see if I’m in alignment and whatever. (Lesley: Yeah) Or like, I love a good romance, like goofy (Lesley: Yeah) like, you know, My Best Friend’s Wedding. Like those kinds of rom-commie, (Lesley: Yeah) you know, Bridgerton I’ll read all that stuff. So,

Lesley Logan 7:00
Yeah, I do love, I love to read. You know, you just made me remember that one thing that I’ve, again, I’ll end up making money out of it. But one thing that I want to have the time for, and I’m trying to build our schedule around so it’s not really a hobby as much as it’s like a goal to do something is, I really want to be a tequila sommelier and there is tequila school in Mexico. And I found a school that has like, one month, six week, eight week, three months, programs. You better believe I’ve researched like how do I buy a rental house there? How many dogs can I have at it? How can Brad and I live in Mexico while I do Visionary Officer learns about tequila. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 7:38
Oh my gosh. I can see the future of Pilates retreats. Take Pilates by day and takes tequila by night.

Lesley Logan 7:45
The tequila and Pilates. Yeah. Feela tequila. That’s what we call it. (Lesley and Clare laughs)

Clare Solly 7:51
Alright, sign up below.

Lesley Logan 7:54
Anyways, let’s talk about Melissa Doman.

Clare Solly 7:56
Melissa. I would love to talk about Melissa Doman. This was so exciting me hear this in real time, like I was jumping up and down in the background. While I was taking notes on YouTube, we’re talking. Melissa Doman is an Organizational Psychologist, a Former Clinical Medical Health Therapist and Author of a book you need to write down and get in the show notes. Yes, You Can Talk About Mental Health at Work (Here’s Why And How To Do It Really Well). Melissa works with companies and across industries around the globe, including small companies you might not have heard of like Microsoft, Estée Lauder, Salesforce, Siemens. She’s been featured featured in magazines and articles on, in Vogue and on the BBC and CNBC, about the great resignation, mental health at work conversations about the Ukraine crisis and more. This woman has lived all around the world and it was just, it’s an amazing conversation. So definitely go listen to it again …

Lesley Logan 8:56
Yeah. I agree, I really am so grateful. She said yes. Because I think that I mean, it’s so easy to find people who like, “Yeah, let’s talk about mental health.” And she’s like, fired up. She’s like, “We all gonna be talking about mental health. Here’s mine.” I mean, she like literally is leavi… living, speaking breathing version of her book, I believe.

Clare Solly 9:14
Yeah, well, that was nice. Because I didn’t feel shamed when she was talking about I felt, I … energized like (Lesley: Yeah) these are the things I’m going to go be proactive about. Anyway, sorry, I’m getting ahead of myself. What was your favorite thing that she mentioned?

Lesley Logan 9:29
Okay, so you have to write this down. I even said it in the in the episode, I said wri… everyone go to the show notes and write this down. By the way on the lesleylogan.co site, we have all the transcripts so you can actually just like copy and paste things that you love that people say by the way, hint, hint, text it to yourself, text it to a friend. So one thing I loved that she said was well being sha… on well being shaming, doing things so let’s say somebody basically it’s like if somebody like says, “Oh, must be nice, you get to leave work earlier. Must be nice, you could go on a run on your lunch break.” That’s that’s well being shaming. And so she says your response should be, “Doing things to manage my well being practices a healthy adult thing to do. Can you help me understand why you don’t agree?” And I just love this because I’m sure you’re like, “Oh my God, I have to stand up for myself. Oh my God, do this.” But, you know, if they’re like that, it’s because someone else made, showed them that and like embodied that and implify and showed that and they saw people getting rewarded for that. And you can actually be the person that says, “This is actually, this is actually not a must be nice thing. This is actually how I show up and be your coworker. Can you tell me why that’s a problem?” And they might a solid healthy person might go, “Oh, wow, that’s really cool.” And you know, some people won’t change, but I just really, I really liked that she brought that up. And I love that she gave us a comeback for those well being shamers.

Clare Solly 10:52
Yeah, well, um, this this goes with what I was saying to I mean, she mentioned that she’s a recovering people pleaser, which I’m… That was one of the things I was like, “Yes, me, me.” So yeah, I totally understand that. And like, it’s, there’s ways to reframe where you’re not apologizing, you’re not. Because anytime you apologize, that’s you trying to people, please. And if you reframe it, and put it out there, like, “This is who I am,” then, then you’re not trying to make others pleased by anything. And that sort of goes along with that the thing that I took from it. (Lesley: Yeah. What’s your thing?) Mine was, you people need to understand or there’s an understanding of that people have different levels of needs and ways they work. And also, part of that, too, is people don’t know what you need unless you tell them. So (Lesley: Yeah) … this is part of the conversation about like, the email after work, and I’m one of those people like I panic, when I’m like, “Oh, my gosh, my boss sent me an email (because I work in corporate America). My boss sent me an email, I need to respond to it right now. And it’s like, no, she was just sending it right then because it was on her mind right then.” (Lesley: Right) And I, it wasn’t until I had the conversation with her like three months in that I I didn’t understand that she just needed to get it out of her brain. She didn’t need me to respond. She just needed to let go of it.

Lesley Logan 12:12
Yeah, yeah. And that’s, and like of course, she would assume that because she’s emailing you. But that’s something like I, you know, I try to do with our team is like, I mean, we have people live all over the world. So we’re going to talk on Slack, Monday and email all day long. So the assumption is, you don’t need to respond. Unless I say it’s an emergency, I can’t find this thing. But then I’ll probably just call you if it’s an actual emergency, I’m just gonna pick up the phone and be like, “I’m so sorry, I am calling you after work hours. I can’t find this thing.” I’ve had to do that twice before. And I felt like a jerk. But I was just like, “I’m really sorry, this is I just need two seconds of emergency. I can’t find this thing.” And most people don’t mind that because it’s respectful of their time. But I also you know, I’ve had people who’ve responded to me after hours when I’ve said something. And I was like, “Oh, I didn’t, I didn’t realize you worked this late. Is everything, okay?” (Clare: Oh, that’s a good one.) Because I don’t want the team to be a bunch of workhorses. I want them, you know, I want them to get their job done. And they should be able to get it done. And the amount of hours we’ve we’ve allotted for it. And if they can’t, I want them to let me know. So that we can figure that out because some things can be automated that they were doing, right? But it does require the the you telling your boss, “Hey, it stresses me out when you email me at 8pm.” And then your boss going, “Oh, I’m just, this I was just thinking about it. I didn’t actually expect you’re…” Like, you know, we make assumptions. And so it’s like we have to have, we’re human beings have to have a conversation. And I love that Melissa talked about that so many times in and it’s like, be clear, be kind and like tell people what you need and why why you need it. Yeah.

Clare Solly 13:51
Yeah. And again, like, I know, you mentioned in the pod in the recording, that, you know, you’re a small business owner, you have several people that listen to this podcast that are small business owners. I think a good piece of advice for anybody who owns their own business, is to make sure you leave the door open for questions to be asked. You know, for anybody that works for you, so that way if it you know if you get to a point, because again, unless the door is opened, like I didn’t know that I was, you know, having to ask questions. (Lesley: Right) But then also people like me who work four bosses, like ask the questions like tell people what you need, and ask what the expectation is.

Lesley Logan 14:31
Well, for example, one of our team members had came to me and she said, “I’m can… I’m actually over my hours every single week.” and I was like, “Oh, how long have you been this way?” She’s like, “four months” and I was like, “Okay. In the future, if it goes on longer than a week to two weeks, can you just like pipe in and say, ‘hello, I’m heading over my hours. I’m being overworked.’ We don’t know. All we know as you’re getting your work done. You know, (Clare: Yeah) so I hate that that happened. I feel terribly about it, let’s fix it. And also I ca… so this doesn’t happen the future, here’s how it needs to be so that we can support you.” And and that’s, you know, it’s it basically it’s like, unless someone’s a total dickhead, both people have to have a conversation about where the line got crossed, and who allowed who to cross it, who crossed it, and how do we not cross it again. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 15:26
Yeah. Well and she talked about having the moment of like, blowing up or exploding, and like, you have to do the prep work before that. And it’s, you know, conversations like this are scary conversations until you have them. And then after you’ve had them like, again, it’s it’s anything else. It’s it’s practice. (Lesley: Yeah) So just have the conversation. A lot of times some people will respect you more on the other side for having the conversation.

Lesley Logan 15:51
Yeah. And also, if it doesn’t go the way you want, well, now, you know, and you’re not wasting any more time. Like going, “Oh, my God, they don’t listen to me. They don’t do this.” It’s like, yep, they don’t listen to me. And I now have to decide if this is a place that I want to work at. Or, you know, where do I want to take my expertise? And what team do I want to be part of, you know, so yeah.

Clare Solly 16:15
And perfect. Speaking of taking your expertise, places, should we get in this BE IT action items? (Lesley: Yes, I love these.) All right, so let’s talk about what bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your conversation? I took away and I loved the way she phrased this. And she said it a couple of times, the crucial conversational literacy, everyone needs to have a modicum of knowledge about mental health in the workplace. I (Lesley: Yeah) just thought that was just a like, “Go out and make sure you understand who you are, and what rights you have in your workplace to create a safe and a good working environment for you mentally. “

Lesley Logan 17:02
Right. Like, I love that because it’s like, we can’t see those people who work for someone, you can’t expect your bosses to be enlightened around to this. And like, literally look out for every moment of your mental health and well being while they’re running a business. And bosses, you can’t expect your team to come at you with all their mental health stuff and actually speak up you have like everybody has to be educated for what they’re about what educated in their roles and where they need to go when, when they need some mental health and well being support, or some education or some needs. And so I think it’s like, it really does require and she said this in the thing, like we have to come together as a team, and we have to actually go, “What does that look like? Why do we care about that?”

Clare Solly 17:46
Yeah, and, and, you know, unless you’re starting the conversation, and actually this is a this can start at water coolers, like this can start at the kitchen, this can start as you’re waiting to join a Zoom meeting, like or as you’re waiting for everybody to join a Zoom meeting, just start chatting about mental health in the workplace. Like, the more we bring this to the forefront. Even if you feel like you’re not affected at this moment, the more we talk about it, the more we make other people comfortable about the conversation and empower them to go have the conversation if they need to.

Lesley Logan 18:19
Yeah, well and also like this moment is like if you’re not being impacted in this moment with your mental health, this is the best time to have those conversations. (Clare and Lesley laughs) You can then actually have it and you’re not like what she said when she had her fuzzy brain like, “We’re trying to stay alive and this part is like waaa. (Clare: Yeah) I’m overwhelmed. No one is listening to me.” (Clare: Yeah) So I yeah, I think it’s like the what I really love is like we, she in no way are the leaders in the company is to blame for mental health in the company but also in no way are the employees scot free and like we all have to take part in owning our mental health and well being, being clear on what we need and asking for it. And understanding that they’re going to have ask and requests where they are and somewhere in the middle we all have to meet and if we can’t, then you may have to like ask yourself, what else or options do I have that might not be the right place for you? And that’s okay, too.

Clare Solly 19:17
Yeah, yeah. So just start the conversation. Lesley, what was your BE IT action item?

Lesley Logan 19:22
So she first of all what I love is just like take action. You have to take action. Like and hello, action brings clarity, it’s the antidote to fear. So especially if you’re scared to talk about mental health at work, take one of these actions and and I just want, I just like the simplest thing is like read her book and I know it’s for mental health in the workplace. And I know a lot of you might work for yourself or you might work in a small team, but I feel like within a family it’s really important to be like I feel to me families are another business like they all, they have bills, there needs to be a lot of income we have goals and vacation these things, right. So like to talk about you can implement these things. And I think it’s really important because sometimes someone in the family is gonna be going through something. And it’s going to require the whole family to be like, “Okay, what do you need right now to help you get through this busy time?” Like, that’s really, you know, like when we’re really crazy in a launch, we actually have to tell everyone in our Vegas family, “Hey, here’s the deal, we are in a crazy time right now. That means no extra dogs can be here. That means we’re having dinner delivered. If you want to come over for dinner, you have to leave after dinner.” Like …

Clare Solly 20:27
You even message me sometimes you’re like, “Hey, girl, I’m not gonna be able to talk this next week, because (Lesley: Yeah) I got a launch going on.” (Clare laughs)

Lesley Logan 20:34
Yeah, yeah. And also like learning to say that so that I don’t get pissed off when people are bothering me. I’m like, well, they don’t know. They don’t know. And so read this book, everyone, it’s that’s in the show notes. I’m really, really am excited about what what she is doing. And I really think that the more responsibility we can take for ourselves in our mental health, the easier it is for us to ask for that at work, to ask for that with our partner, to ask for that from ourselves. And then and then we can really change the world. You know, in this way, I just, I really believe in it. So but it does mean that we all have to take responsibility for taking care of ourselves and understanding what our mental health and well being needs are and stop shaming people. Like if you say, please, please, please remove this. If you say it “must be nice for her”, even in your head about something that they’re doing. Let that be a flashlight to something that you wish you were doing for yourself. People who have boundaries are not rude. They’re not bitches. They are people who have had I need these boundaries in my life. I get people who say I asked people, they said I was really cold. Because, you know, they came to visit and I only was available for like, a window of time. And I’m like, “Okay, if I had made myself available to you the whole time, I you would have hated me because I have to, there are things I have to do. So that I can show up and be this person. I’m not this person every like, like, I’m not like a light switch.” (Lesley laughs) You know? So I think we have to we all … with this wasn’t a BE IT action item, but I’m making it one. Watch the well being shaming you have towards yourself, your friends, your co workers, because you use it as a flashlight of what you’re actually needing in your life and, and actually see them as like, “Oh, wow, look at that person taking care of themselves.” Like what if we saw that in people instead of like judging it?

Clare Solly 22:22
Yeah, that’s great. That’s so great. (Lesley: Yeah) In, in a, in acting school, we always, we weren’t supposed to like pick apart people we were, we were supposed to say, “I wish you would do da da da,” instead. So it turns into a positive. (Lesley: Oh) But I like yours better. I like flashlight for yourself better. (Lesley: flashlight)

Lesley Logan 22:41
Yeah, I like well, you know, I like I think it was my therapist, I was really, I got upset at myself for how I handled something. And she goes, “The problem is not how you handled it. The problem is the judgment you have toward yourself.” (Clare: Yeah) Whenever you are like this see as a flashlight of where you still have to do the work. And I was like, “There’s more work.” (Lesley laughs) (Clare: Yeah …) There’s more work to be done. But I think you know, it’s like, whenever you’re envious of somebody, there’s a flashlight of something you’re really wanting for yourself. And maybe you didn’t know that. So like, “Oh, thank you so and so for letting me know, I really want to be going for a run on my lunch break. Or I want time on my lunch break for myself.” So Clare, I’m so excited. You got to be part of this. (Clare: Yehey) I’m gonna make… and Brad needs to listen to this obvious because we have a company but you you are on the other side of this. So I like have a company, you work for companies and I have to do a little shout out. Because you the first time we had you on the podcast, you were manifesting a job and you got a job offer with like more money than like whatever you (Clare: Yeah) asked for. Right? And then so that was like in your whole episode like manifesting money and then … two weeks ago you were like manifesting a new job and we were doing manifesting stuff and not only did you get a new job, you got a really frickin awesome job. And you got paid more money than you asked for. (Lesley laughs)

Clare Solly 24:05
Yeah, I was I was told by the recruiter. No, no, they don’t pay over this amount. And they’re paying me, they offered me more than the amount that they told me the more than I was asking for more than they told me that they wouldn’t. So it was …

Lesley Logan 24:21
Yeah. (Clare: manifesting) So… Manifest. So Clare Solly, you can find her on Instagram at @youwontbesolly and so you can find her, she does manifestation stuff. She’s a writer, she’s got books, she teaches you how to write. So make sure you check all those things out but also like she is a prime example. To me, I just heard this and I feel like you’re the walking example of that. Like don’t take a ‘no’ from a person who can’t give you a ‘yes’. Right? Because like you could have listened that recruiter and you could have been like, “Okay, I’m just gonna get this and that’s fine.” But instead you like went into it like, “I’m still I’m open to receiving all that is there and this is what I want. And this is like in my dream world. And I like and here and here’s more. And here’s all of this and here’s we’re gonna guarantee you.” And like (Lesley and Clare laughs) it exists out there. So y’all don’t take a ‘no’ from someone who can’t give you a ‘yes’, manifest (Clare: Yeah) what you want, and it’ll be … You had clarity and a vision around it. And that’s why it comes to you.

Clare Solly 25:18
Yeah, exactly. And it sometimes shows up in different ways. Like, it’s not a straightforward way, sometimes like mine was very straightforward. But sometimes it comes at you at different directions. So manifest what you want, and it’ll show up.

Lesley Logan 25:30
Oh, I love you so much. Thanks for being my slingshot, buddy.

Clare Solly 25:34
I love you. Thank you for being my slingshot, friend. I’m so glad we do things like this together.

Lesley Logan 25:39
I know and also everyone let us know how you enjoyed this recap where we went off the fly straight off of … Amanda and Brad will let us know how we did. (Lesley and Clare laughs) We’re just here being it till we see it and you should do the same. So y’all what were your favorite takeaways? What are your BE IT action items? Are you going to read a Melissa’s book? Let us know by screenshotting this. Tag the @be_it_pod, tag @youwontbesolly, tag Melissa Doman, the @wanderingmel. And let us know how the this impacted you and what you’re going to do about mental health and well being in your life. Until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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