Michael Unbroken: Skills have utility. Most people do not have skills that actually matter. Right? That actually like you can be really good at video games. But like, how does that transition into? I’m not saying you can’t be successful, like at playing video games? Because you certainly can. But like when you’re trying to build something in your life, how do you leverage the skills that you have that you’re really good at?

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INTRODUCTION

Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan 01:02
All right, Be It Babe, I am so excited because we have one of my dearest friends like, I probably like I feel like he’s a brother from another mister and mother. But he’s totally family to Brad and I, it’s Michael Unbroken. And we’ve had him on the podcast before, in fact, one of your favorite podcasts to listen, we got so many reviews, I got so many DMs about that episode. And so I brought him back. And it’s just really fun. Because he’s a dear friend, we got to go really deep on some conversations and, and share some of our own things. So I hope that you enjoy hearing this conversation about integrity and goals and taking time for yourself and like your worth. We talked about a lot of things. And so I really hope you enjoy it. I also want to say that there are stories in our lives that can be triggering to some people. And so if that does happen just forward, you know, and please, you won’t offend us, make sure you take care of yourself and honor that about you. But I do think it’s important that you do hear about how Michael grew up, or how I’ve grown up, because it’s so easy to look where we are right now. And think that we have it all together. And it’s and it must be nice for us. And the truth is, is that like we’ve made decisions along the way, that put us in situations that we were in and got us out of situations we’re in and also put us where we are today. And I really think it’s important that you know that the grass isn’t always greener on the other side it’s probably Astroturf anyways, at this point, and also people’s lives are from choices they made. And you might not know the whole story. But you are allowed to have what you want. You are allowed have the life that you want, you are worthy of those things. And I do hope that this conversation really does help you see that and helps you understand how people like us have made decisions and gotten where we are. And we hope that for you. So here is Michael Unbroken.

All right, Michael, welcome back.

Michael Unbroken 3:10
Yo

Lesley Logan 3:10
I’m so excited you’re here, in the flesh.

Michael Unbroken 3:13
Real life.

Lesley Logan 3:14
I know. I love. I love actually doing these in person. I know you do most of your interviews in person, but I actually think it’s quite fun. And it’s also not so nice. I have a friend who lives in Vegas come over to do this interview. You when we last had you on you were living in Denver. So what’s new?

Michael Unbroken 3:30
Well, I mean living here, kind of I guess quasi right. Being on the road all the time makes it feel very difficult. But I’ve just come to accept like, that’s my reality. Like, I like being on the road. I mean, you get it right, because you’re on the road all the time.

Lesley Logan 3:45
Yeah, I think you I think, I don’t know, I think you choose your choices. Like that’s kind of my thing. So like, I don’t want people like, oh my God, you’re so busy. I’m like, I chose all these things. So like, I don’t really feel comfortable. Like, I’m not gonna complain about it. Because if I complain, it means I want to change something. And if I don’t change it, then I’m not gonna complain about it.

Michael Unbroken 4:04
I watched, have you ever seen Up in the Air? That George Clooney movie? (inaudible) fires people. Yes, there’s a scene where he’s like in the lounge, taking out all the cards out of his wallet. He’s got I got this card, and this card, and this rewards card and that card and I was just like, that’s my life. And, and there’s a scene where like, this new girl has come into the company, and they’re gonna try to make everything virtual. This is like a road warrior. And he’s like, I don’t want to do that. And that’s how I feel. Because I love I love the adventure. You know? And it’s like, that’s part of the choice that we make in everything. It’s not that it’s not difficult. I mean, there’s sacrifices, right? Because it’s like, if you want to go be this person, it hurts friendships, it hurts relationships, it hurts having a normal life, but also the ones that you have are better in this weird way, because you’re actually like here.

Lesley Logan 4:57
Yeah, I think first of all, I think it’s like It really changed. You have to be more communicative with the people in your life like, this is the life I live in. This is how I can hang out with you. And this is how I can spend time with you. And when I’m with you, this is how I will show up, I promise.

But it forces communication, and some people don’t like it like, I, people in my family, you travel so much, you never see us. And it’s like, well, it’s so they never see you. It’s just I don’t see you as much as you probably would like, and that would make you feel comfortable. But we don’t always get what we want. And as long as I’m like operating in integrity, and I’m communicative with you, I think we can make it work. But I also find that I have tried doing nothing we did in the pandemic like I did, I stood around here for two years and didn’t really go a lot of places. And there was something nice about being home and having a routine. But I love it on the road. So I have tried to figure out like a balance, like I don’t think I go on the road as much as you I’m like, one trip a month is plenty, two trips a month, I’m like it better, wherever I’m going, number two better be amazing.

Michael Unbroken 6:12
Well, but also like, if you think about it, it’s a choice, we’ve decided to do this, I decided that I’m going to be the one who gets on the plane and go to seven cities in a month and speak at all these events and blah, blah, blah. But at the same time, if you think about it, when we make intention, like we had lunch together two weeks ago or whatever, we we don’t flake on each other. Like here it is like we’re going to do this. And I think a lot of people don’t take advantage of the time that they actually have with people. And they reschedule and they cancel. And they’re like all do it this time. And then we’ll see you next time. And you know, and people always will go, oh, it’s not a big deal that you canceled on. And I’m like, actually, it’s a freakin huge deal. Like you, you have to understand like time, time is the one variable we don’t get more of. And so I’m like, if I make plans with my friends, you know this, I have guys’ night, Brad comes to it, it’s like I have all these different things in my life where it’s like I try to build this framework of time knowing that it’s really the only thing that because I can’t get back it has to take precedent over everything. So I’m with you. I’m present with my friends I’m present, like I’m not in whatever other element of life I could be in in that moment.

Lesley Logan 7:29
I love that you brought it up not flaking on each other because I I actually was looking back at our our text messages. And it was all I saw were like dates. Like we’re like sending each other dates back and forth, to have an intentional opportunity to actually hang out.

So I was looking back at our text message. And we were very intentional on dates, we sat and we’ve talked about a couple of our friends who will sort of flake out on things. And it’s like, I just, I don’t make plans with you. Yeah, it’s really, and that’s kind of, I think it’s hard for a lot of people who are people pleasers, or like they want to be liked. And it’s like, of course, I don’t want people to hate me. But I also have to understand that if I’m set aside the precious time that I have in town to be with you or to be wherever I am, if I’m coming into your town, I’m going to be there. If I set that aside, it means I’m not doing something with anyone else, including I’m not doing anything for myself. I’m just doing something to hang out with you. So if you’re going to flake, it happens, it’s I’m not asking for perfection. But be honest. And really make sure you let me know as soon as possible. You know, I mean, it’s not like we’re perfect, but I do think the intention is there and when you do have to reschedule something, you know, being intentional about how you reschedule that not like, hey, let’s reschedule for another day. It’s like, okay, well, that’s never gonna happen.

Michael Unbroken 9:11
Like how integress are you? Right? Where’s your level of integrity? That’s what I think about with it. Because especially and like I get like not most people don’t live lifestyles like us, right? And that’s fine. And you don’t have to like if you do the nine to five thing, cool. But like still, it’s like, why are you flaking on your friends when this? Everything changed for me in like, I guess it was probably eight years ago now. Nine years ago. I got a text from one of my buddies and he’s like, hey, Wasn’t this your friend? And he sends me a link to an online news article. My childhood best friend Seth, this guy that I did everything with from the time that we were like 11 years old. Have I told you this story? So Seth and I grew up very very similar circumstances his dad was this crazy alcoholic. His mom was working like three jobs. We both go to the same elementary school, we go to the same high school for a period of time, we both played football together wrestled everything like we’re best friends. Actually, the first tattoo I ever got was with him. We went and you know, this is 2004. We’re dead broke, we have no money, he found a way to make money. And one day he calls me he’s like, hey, you know, we can go make $150 if we sell our plasma? Yes, that’s true. You can. So we went well. And this is, you know, 20-something years ago, where not only do we go sell the plasma once we do it like three times in one day.

Lesley Logan 10:41
Can you sell that much?

Michael Unbroken 10:42
No, of course not. But like everything was paper that it wasn’t all digitized. So, we’re gonna make all this money. And we go get these tattoos. So I have a matching tattoo with him. And he’s working a job at this Johnny Rockets downtown Circle Center Mall, Indianapolis, flipping burgers, doing fries, whatever. I had just gotten a job at a Wendy’s. And I was a general manager in training. So making 36 grand a year at 18 years old.

Lesley Logan 11:09
That’s millions of dollars for an 18-year-old.

Michael Unbroken 11:13
Not only that, but if you look at 2004 that’s probably 100 grand a year. Like it’s real money. Yeah, I’m on my own. I have my own car, my own place, everything. And he’s fucking flipping these burgers. And I’m like, dude, fuck that. Come work over here. I’ll get you a job. Now I got him the interviewer he ends up getting himself the job. Well, three weeks into it. He just stops coming. And I would, think about that, I’m 18, I put my name on the line, I’m like, we’re about to get a $500 bonus or whatever. And, and I come to find out, he’s back at Johnny Rockets, fucking flipping burgers, making $4 an hour or whatever. I was irate. Like, you have no idea how mad I was. Now I look at it differently. I’m like, Well, we’re on our own path. Like it’s not up to me what he does. I stopped talking to him, replying to him, text messages, AIMs, you know, (inaudible) Myself, My Spaces, nothing and he would call me all the time for years. And nothing. I was so mad at this guy. And he was my best friend, he’s like my brother. And I get this text from another mutual friend. I’m like 29-30 years old. And it’s a link to a news article in the Indy Star, Indiannapolis man shot dead in his living room.

Lesley Logan 12:36
Oh my God.

Michael Unbroken 12:37
And somebody had walked into Seth’s house, it’s a bad drug deal gone bad. And just blew his fucking brains out. Close cast it whole nine. And it took I still don’t know that. I’m entirely like through that. Yeah. But that moment shifted everything for me because I was like, I never get to apologize. I never get to fix this. I never get across this bridge. I never this friendship that meant more to me than anything. He was my brother. He was the person that was with me when I got kicked out of the house, when I got expelled from high school, the first time I ever had sex, like it was at his house like, it was like this whole thing. And because I felt my, the ego has such a need to be right, to be wrong, and to be offended. It was all of them. And it took away that relationship. And then my best friend Kevin got murdered. Neither one of my friends get and I was just like, man, like, you’ve got, your people have to be the most important thing. Because I never get to have that conversation with him. And so when like, I think about the times we schedule or my guys’ night, which Brad comes to or when I’m on the road and I make the time, the same for you guys, you guys were on the road and made the time to come hang out with me in Denver. I’m like, I’m gonna show up. Because I don’t know if I get tomorrow with you.

Lesley Logan 14:00
Yeah, I all of that is really sad. And, and there’s those moments that like, really teach us something, you know? And, you know, who knows? If you had answered an AIM, what would have been the change there, but I think, I think it’s really important that you kind of we kind of understand ourselves a little bit more and those things, it’s like, like, you get to go back and go, how would I wanted to handle that? And it doesn’t mean it would have changed any other outcome. But maybe you would have been able to feel like at least I said, my thing because I think anyone listening be like, of course, I would not talk like you put your name on the line, even at 18, even at 40 like that stuff matters you know, so but I do agree. It’s like, it’s like how can how, what is integrity to us, like what feels integral and how to want to operate there and it doesn’t always mean that it will be the right thing. Like, looking back you might be like I felt like it was an integrity then but that didn’t go the way I expected it to go. But I think it’s we have to have values. I think it goes back to that’s one of the values that we have in our lives as for Brad and I, and then also in our business, it’s like, if we say, We’re gonna do something, and we can’t do it, we have to communicate why we can’t do it. Otherwise, we’re out of integrity. And that, that makes people not trust you or not want to be around you or want not want to participate with you and I, and we all what is life if you don’t have these relationships, whether they’re in your town where you are or out in the world where you get to be like, I live for the cause I have my girlfriends who don’t even live in this town with me. But they get what I do. They understand what I’m going through. And some days, I’m gonna go like yesterday, I had a girlfriend at a coffee date with a girlfriend. And it’s been a few months since we talked and she was like, how are you doing? I said, well, to be honest, in this moment, not great. And if we hadn’t set this up three months ago, I would still be in bed right now. Because I’m not having a good day. But we had this call. So I’m here and I’m just letting you know, I’m not my best. And she’s like, Well, I’m not my best. Let’s talk about what’s going on. And then what do we each need. And that was such a great moment to have. And because of integrity, because I want to live my life. I showed up for that call.

Michael Unbroken 16:00
Yeah, there’s like three ways that I, three rules to life. And, and this is for me, and I try to like instill this in my clients. I look for this in my friendships and the people I date and potential relationships, business partnerships, everything. And it’s like, number one, are you honest? Number two, do you show up? Even when you don’t want to. Because you’re like, Fuck, man, I’m no, I’m just having a day. Want to stay in bed, I’m gonna Netflix and chill, whatever, right? And then three is like execute. Do you actually follow through? Right? Because showing up is like being in the room. But executing is like I’m doing the thing. Because you see this you coach people, right? In business and in personal. Yes, people who like you lay out the game plan. And they’re in it, and they’re hyped up. And they’re like, I’m gonna do everything. And then they go home and nothing is different. You know, and so I’m like, are you doing all three of those? And the reason why it’s so important to me is like, I used to not do any of that. Like, I mean, you know, my story. People may have listened to me on here before, but it’s like, and people who are listening to this on the other podcast, they know my story, like I was a piece of shit. Yeah, you know, when it’s like, do you want to be that?

Lesley Logan 17:07
Yeah, I think what I love is when I love that you share your story so much, because it allows people to see you can change, like, maybe you felt like you were a piece of shit back then. And like you’ve look what you’ve done with your life, and how you and how you’re acting. And that execution is so hard. I actually have two calls tomorrow with people who are not executing what they signed up for. And they’re not getting, they’re seeing everyone in the group surpass them. And so now they’re like, double downing on themselves and how not where they want to be. And like, there’s a lot of judgment, there’s a lot of things that they’re saying, and it’s like, I hear you like they are going further. And I understand that life is sucking right now. But you also still have to show up for yourself in some capacity. How do you like what are the ways that you help people kind of actually execute not just be in the room? Yeah,

Michael Unbroken 17:55
I think well, you know, I try to lead first, right? So it’s funny, I was just coaching a client driving over here. And it’s like, even if I have to get in the car and drive half an hour to the other side of town, because I have a commitment which I then it’s my bad because like, here’s what’s interesting in this space I’m in right now. Like I’m not a slave to time in the way I normally am, which I think is actually a good thing to be a student of your calendar. I’m just kind of like nonchalant about everything. And I was getting ready to head over here. I was like, oh, I have a coaching call right now. Which isn’t the norm, right? But but it’s about like, recognizing that you have to do the thing. Right. And sometimes it’s like, yeah, make a small pivot. But what I’m always trying to get to, like, at the end of the day, like, if my head is on the pillow, did I do everything I said I was gonna do. And I don’t allow myself to go to bed if I didn’t. And that’s like a consequence. And I think that we need to be able to give ourselves consequences for our lack of action. And I don’t necessarily mean like consequences. It’s pain, like you don’t have to like self-flagellate. Right, but it’s like, I’m not going to bed till I’m done.

Lesley Logan 19:05
Yeah, I also think that helps you understand, like, how much you can actually promise that you’ll do that day, because you’re not gonna, you’re not gonna want to (inaudible).

Michael Unbroken 19:15
I was like, that’s too much. Right. But it’s all this is about know thyself. It’s like, okay, so you’re gonna have these coaching call clients tomorrow, like, what about them? Because in my mind, you say that to me, and I go, well, they’re trapped. They’re stuck in their own mindset, which can be easily solved by taking an action. Yeah. So what are you presenting today?

Lesley Logan 19:35
Yeah, I mean, that’s, that’s what I’m thinking about today. And what I’m going to figure out in the meeting, because the actions that I gave them last time, I thought were so here’s what I know as a habits coach, like trained with BJ Fogg. Like on calls. He is the behavior scientist from Stanford. He’s the one every Habits book has copied.

Michael Unbroken 19:55
Yeah, and you’re about those habits too, because you’ll text me at like 6:30 in the morning. You’re like I’m on the mat.

Lesley Logan 20:00
I know I’m like are you on your pet mat? So I, so here’s what I know, the people that typically are attracted to the type of work that I do, they’re typically perfectionist overachievers, and so they have a really hard time doing little. But what the science shows is that you do not create habits unless you actually achieve, you actually have to complete things, get tough wins, you have to celebrate, you have to be kind to yourself. And so if you are in a judgment shame zone, I promise you, you will never ever, ever create a habit around that thing because your brain’s gonna be like, I don’t want or that thing brings me shame, it makes me feel stressed, it doesn’t make me feel good about myself. So I had thought that the five minutes of taking time for themselves was actionable. And now I think I need to get even more specific, I need them to get more specific with me with what those five minutes are gonna be or what that one is going to be because maybe five minutes to do anything for themselves is almost still too much. And that’s okay, like, this is what’s so important. I’m not gonna get mad at myself for I’m not gonna go Oh, that was done Lesley, didn’t help them enough. It’s like, every single person is different. For some people, they need the freedom of those five minutes being anything. And for some people, it needs to be very specific. These five minutes are for me to go for a walk. And it’s important that people know themselves and you’re not going to know yourself until you make it until you do it in a way it didn’t work. Like that’s just you won’t know maybe, like, you know this about your business. Like, have you ever like done something your business at like, freakin like sores, and you’re like, Wow, that was amazing. But then you got to redo it again, it doesn’t have the same thing because like, you almost learn better when the idea fails, because you’re like, Okay, we could have done that better. We could have done this better. Like when it wins the first time. You’re not really sure what was the thing that was the best?

Michael Unbroken 21:46
I think that’s all life though. I mean, if I go track back everything I’ve ever done, it’s always been like, sometimes things work really well. And sometimes they don’t. And I think the hard part about it is like recognizing like it actually doesn’t matter at the end of the day. What matters is like, are you still going forward? And I think that’s where people get trapped. And so I have the benefit of my side of being a nihilist. Like I don’t care about anything, which is really weird, right? There’s a juxtaposition.

Lesley Logan 22:14
So funny, because I think you would care so much.

Michael Unbroken 22:16
Well, there’s a juxtaposition I live my life in, right? So think about this. Name your great, great grandpa.

Lesley Logan 22:23
Oh

Michael Unbroken 22:23
Exactly. Right. And so people always are talking about legacy. Like I’m gonna build a legacy I’m gonna build outside of a few outliers. We have some Tony Robbins, and Napoleon Hills and Abraham Hicks and those people will live a bit longer than the average. But most people can’t name their great great grandpa, let alone their grandfather. Yeah, but yet we live in this society that pushes legacy go do the thing. And I’m like, it actually doesn’t matter. Like at the end of the day, nothing that we do matters. And here’s what I hold simultaneously. One that concept paired with everything they fucking do in this moment is the most important thing that I do. Right. And so if you can, like wrap your head around that it’s a weird sense of freedom. So like, even though like I build businesses, and I coach people, I speak on the stages, the podcast, blah, blah. It’s like, as I look down the tunnel, I got the end of the day, it doesn’t actually matter. And we hold ourselves to this account where it’s like, man, like it’s got to be perfect. Like, no it doesn’t. My book here, let me say this real quick, because you’ll see why, why I said this. My first book has like a ton of reviews on Amazon, on Barnes and Noble, on Apple. All of them are five stars. The first book, except for one, one, and it’s a two-star review. And the person goes, I couldn’t get through the book. The grammar is terrible.

Oh, I have that review, too. I have Yeah, all fives and then I have that person.

Here’s why I don’t care about the five stars or the two stars. Because I did that for me. I was like, I’m gonna write a fucking book. And I’m gonna write another one. And I’m gonna do another one and then make the podcast and then I’m gonna speak on stages. I’m gonna write coaching programs, I’m gonna do all that. And it’s just like, I’m just going to do it. But people who are in that perfectionist mindset, they’re trapped in the idea of the other person’s opinion is so important that if they get the two-star review, it will cripple them. And I’m just I don’t care and so maybe that makes me very nonchalant but you see how I operate in the world?

Lesley Logan 24:32
Yeah, cuz I because when I said it’s, I think you care a lot. I actually the word care is not that you care about what I think. I feel that you care about the people that you put yourselves in a room with, like whenever I’m in a room with you, or Brad’s in a room with you. We can tell that you care about the people in that room in that moment. So you like so I think it’s really fascinating. And it goes kind of back to what we’ve been talking this whole time is that integrity but also that intentionality of like you’re you’re, you’re like, in this moment, this is all that I’m really here that matters. And that once I leave this moment, it, whatever it’s over and what anyone says about that moment, whether they were there or not, it doesn’t actually pertain to me. Because that moment over and I can’t change it.

Michael Unbroken 25:15
This is why can’t get canceled. Right, right. And I’ve been attempted to be canceled four times. I’m like, I don’t give a fuck. I have a question for you. Because I think this is important. What did you get a two-star review? How do you feel about that?

Lesley Logan 25:29
At the time? At the time, I wasn’t really ready for it. Anything. well, like I read it, and it was kind of like, exactly the, my worst fear. You know, it was a grammar one and I had an editor go through it.

Michael Unbroken 25:44
Why was it your worst fear?

Lesley Logan 25:45
Because my grammar isn’t awesome. And so like I was I didn’t want anyone to see the grammar problems and not get the what the book was about, like I wanted the book to actually help them. And I didn’t want the grammar to take away from helping them. So I did hire an editor. They didn’t catch everything. No one does not perfect. So when I got that, of course, like it felt like the wind got knocked out of me. Now this is 10 years ago, very different person. And I let the wind get and luckily, I lived in L.A. at the time, and I did drive around at the time. So I was in traffic and I let myself like get the wind knocked out of me. And then I got angry at the person. And I got like whoever this person was, because I was like, fuck you like going to the whole thing. But I was like, Wait a minute. This is not an English book. This is a book to make sure that Pilates instructors stopped getting swindled out of their dollars, because people are selling them ship programs, period. And do the do any of the commas or periods and their fuck up that message. No, they don’t. So I wrote back. It’s a good thing. I’m not an English teacher, I hope that you don’t get swindled out of the wrong programs, you know, and, and good luck on your journey. And I was like and I it did take me the whole day to get there. Now I might expect much quicker. Now I like I laugh so hard, because people on YouTube love to write a ton of shit about me. But my people come for them, which is also a lot of fun. But I think like it also you have to get to a point where you can go I didn’t do this. Like I had to get to the point where it’s like, Wait, am I didn’t do this for that person. I I hadn’t done it for me yet. But I absolutely did it to help people. And I and it was a particular group of people and that person, wasn’t it. And so I had to like learn whose opinions of me matter. Oh, not that person. It wasn’t who he’s doing it for.

Michael Unbroken 27:26
Yeah. And that’s, that goes back to the egos need to be right. Why even give the energy to respond? Oh, yeah, I like and part of it. You want the rebuttal because you be like a fuck your mother. Yeah. Like, that’s how I think about. And I and I work really, really hard. Because like, I have very strong opinions like you know, me personally like is there are times where I say shit where most people like, I cannot believe you just said that. And I’m like, why? Like, if we have freedom of speech, and part of being human being is the ability to express who we are. In what I’m not saying there’s not consequences, because there certainly are, but I’m like, I’m gonna do it anyway. Yeah. And I think that in that there’s, there’s, again, I’m gonna tie into that word freedom. When I rebuttal to people, I really take a step back. And I’m like, what does this serve? Right? Because I think that we want to argue and fight and we have this need to be right all the time. And I do too. And it’s something that I have to really think about, because there’s like seven times a day where I’m like, I need to be right. And a hard part about is I’m right a lot. And so it just fuels my ego more. And then when I’m wrong, which I really appreciate, when somebody will sit across from me and be like, you’re looking at it wrong. I learn. And there’s power in that. And I think that you have to be willing to be a learner.

Lesley Logan 28:49
Yeah. I think that’s hard for people. It’s like, our entire way that we’re educated on this planet on this country that we’re we’re both in is like to get the A. And it’s so pointless, because all it teaches is like don’t just copy the Smart kid in class, because, like, why get in trouble. And so you have to be right, when it’s like, it’s so much more important to value the journey that you got there. And like how you got that answer and like, where that came from. And like, I think that’s really hard because people it’s not that they want to be. They have to be right in front of you or in front of somebody else. It’s they’re afraid if they’re wrong, then people are going to judge them for being wrong. And it’s like, no, it’s okay to learn. It’s okay to go. Oh, I never thought about that way. That’s not the life experience I had. So of course, I didn’t think about that way. Thank you for letting me know about a different life experience.

Michael Unbroken 29:40
And that’s because we think that people are thinking about us.

Lesley Logan 29:43
Oh, right. They’re not?

Michael Unbroken 29:44
They’re not. Like, nobody gives a shit about you. I mean, that’s a very crass way of saying it but like, realistically, like nobody’s thinking about me right now.

Lesley Logan 29:54
That is well and that is something that takes a long time for people to even I haven’t even read Recently, there was something that was going on around the holidays where I had, like, it felt like everyone was thinking about me, just because a lot of people were reaching out. I am, but because there were people, a lot of people reaching out, which made me think, oh my God, a lot of people are thinking about this. But when it came down to it, I looked at the statistics of what was going on. And I actually looked at things I was like, oh, not many people are thinking about this. And so I’m stressing about what people are thinking about me when really, they’re not. And it’s such a freeing moment to go. They’re not and that’s okay, it is okay. What,

Michael Unbroken 30:31
like, why did that shift for you? Because like, you’re a public figure, like me, you’ve had your face up on big alas billboards, and you’re, you know, this person that people look towards for stuff, whatever that stuff is that you have at the moment. Like, what? I know this about myself, I’m gonna create codecs. But for the question, I know this about myself, I was invisible as a kid. Growing up being homeless, being the worst kid in school being the kid who smelled like garbage, who wore clothes from the goodwill in the church, who was on the the food stamp cards and ever I was invisible. And I played sports. And I was particularly fond of wrestling, because it was me versus one person. And I have a bunch of championships wrestling, because I love being on the podium and being first place. And it was like my, I am fueled by this need to be seen. I know this about I will admit this publicly. Why do I like speaking in front of 10,000 people? Because motherfuckers are paying attention to me. Yeah, right. And so with what you just said, how do you? How do you handle like, okay, I’m this public persona. But at the same time, I recognize people don’t think about me.

Lesley Logan 31:43
Yeah, I well, first of all, I remember like, I love the Hero’s Journey, and I love reminding myself, I’m the guide, not the hero. So I think that that’s important.

Michael Unbroken 31:54
Context (inaudible).

Lesley Logan 31:55
Yeah. So, so in what we do, as coaches as people who have ideas of solutions for problems that people want to have solved, it is so important for people that for people who work with me to understand that they’re solving the problem, I’m just presenting an option for them. And like, if you like, here’s the option, I can take you across this bridge, but you’re still, you’re still the one that shines, you’re still the one that is the rock star, you’re still the one that did it, I cannot do it for you. And so for me, like, that’s kind of how I keep it in check. It’s like, whoa, hold on. Because if it really bothers me that I’m trying to be the hero of their story. And that’s not why I got into this. And that’s that, well, that’s not sustainable. That’s not That’s exhausting. And that’s like, you have to be too many things that too many people. But as a guide, it’s like, well, you can choose me as your guide. Or you could choose you as your guide, or there’s like 17 other thousand people in the city that you could choose as your guide. And that’s the choice that they have to make. So that’s kind of how I do it. And it’s and that’s not easy when I can see that I am the guide for this person. Like there’s that ego like I know, I can help them, then my job is to make sure that my messaging and what I put out in the world makes them feel comfortable for me to be their guide, but I still can’t be like me, me, me, me, me. You have to do that yourself. And then I think the other year, we’re talking about being seen. I think it’s so interesting to go back and wonder why you do things because I do all this stuff so that people belong because I never felt like I belonged. I felt like the weirdest I felt like the weird kid in town.

Michael Unbroken 33:21
You are the weird kid.

Lesley Logan 33:22
I am still the weird kid.

Michael Unbroken 33:23
But I am too. And that’s why we get along.

Lesley Logan 33:25
Yeah, so like, I again, like because I’m sure people that I grew up with Listen, it’s not that I don’t think I had friends. It’s that I actually just never felt like I was I always felt like the outsider in the group, partly because I did not have money. And I did not have the new clothes. My grandmother was a secretary at an elementary school. And so at the end of every school term, we would go through the clothes that were left behind, because the kids left behind, you know, they had good clothes I had so I had the best jean jackets of the 90s. Like you would have thought I was rich because I had all these jean jackets.

Michael Unbroken 33:59
But you’re just a year behind.

Lesley Logan 34:00
A year behind and they’re someone else’s that left them behind. But like I just I felt like

Michael Unbroken 34:04
Did you have a moment where a kid came up to you and like, that’s my jacket.

Lesley Logan 34:07
Thank goodness. No, because

Michael Unbroken 34:08
It happened to me once. It was one of the most embarrassing experiences of my entire childhood. It was a Tommy Hilfiger jacket. It was one of those pullovers it was red, white and blue I’ll never forget it and I was like, oh my God cuz it was it was in the lost and found and I didn’t have a coat because we’re fucking poor. And like the one of the teachers gave it to me from Lost and Found a week later this kids like that’s my jacket.

Lesley Logan 34:30
Ah, that hurts my soul because I do understand that like, so I I do everything to involve community, there has to be community aspect. And it’s because like, I just know how important it is to feel like you belong in a group and you’re safe in a group and that people miss you and expect you to be in that group. And so that’s kind of how I can that’s what everything is driven. If you look at anything we do, there’s a community to it. There just is we do the FYFs here because I want to, it’s the only way I can show the listener communities stuff like

Michael Unbroken 35:03
What does FYF mean?

Lesley Logan 35:04
Oh, Fuck Yeah Fridays, do you do this?

Michael Unbroken 35:06
No.

Lesley Logan 35:07
You should.

Michael Unbroken 35:08
What is it?

Lesley Logan 35:08
I mean, you celebrate things all the time, so maybe don’t need it. But FuckYeah Friday is like if I would love people to celebrate their wins every single day, but most people won’t. So on Fridays, you celebrate a win. And I it’s even better if it’s a small win or a win that like the project is imperfect or it’s not completed yet, but I share the listeners’ wins. And then I share a win of mine. And and it’s like eight minutes long, nine minuteslong, it is super short. And the whole idea is to get people to think about like, Oh, I’ve never thought about that being a win. That is a win. Like, just people need to celebrate that they’ve done shit. They’ve done stuff and they don’t give themselves credit for it.

Michael Unbroken 35:41
Yeah, they don’t. I didn’t either. For a long time it was I was speaking on set with me the most so if you know Grant Cardone, yeah. he invested in my company, I had spoken at one of his boot camps it was 10,000 people watching. And it was a pitch competition where I was like a shark tank kind of thing. Where I was pitching Think Unbroken, and what I do, and like, I fucking crushed, I destroyed everybody. It wasn’t like, and I’ll say this too, because I can sometimes probably come off as like, maybe egotistical, but I just believe in myself more than most people believe in themselves. Like, I’m not Kanye level self-belief. But I’m sometimes I’m pretty close.

Lesley Logan 36:22
I’ll keep you posted if you cross over.

Michael Unbroken 36:25
That’s what you need friends for. Right?

Lesley Logan 36:28
Brad and I go, hey, Kanye, you’ll go oh

Michael Unbroken 36:30
If you ever hear me go, I am a God. But like you need that, like I always teach my clients, you need to believe in yourself. Because if you don’t who will? And yes, I’m like getting ready to go on stage and do this pitch. And we’re in the greenroom with all these other people who are about to pitch this business. And one of the women goes, well, good luck, everybody. But I already won. And I remember I didn’t say this verbally, but in my head. I was like, you’re fucking insane. You have no idea how much you just fueled me to crush you even more, because I’m super competitive, right? And so we get on stage. Grant goes, who wants to go first, I raised my hand so fast. It’s like coming out of my fucking socket. Because I know one rule in business and in life always go first. If it’s scary, you’re about to do the zipline go first. If it’s you got to get on the plane, go first, like, always go first. Always, always always. Because automatically, you will present yourself as a leader and the alpha in the situation, which I think is important, because we don’t have enough leaders in this world right now. Yeah. And so I go first, I crush literally like the next four people are like literally blah, blah, blah. It’s like incredible to watch. And not for them. But for me and stuff. And so, at the end Grant goes, okay, yeah, this is no-brainer. We know who won. And it was me. I knew I won because I envisioned it a thousand of times leading up to that moment. I have done this speech a zillion times.

And he said something to me. And it sits with me going to Fuck Yeah Friday, he said to me, dude, hold on, take your flowers. And that means like, in that moment, or whenever it is, celebrate the things that you have done. We move too fast, constantly. Where it’s like on to the next on the next on the next. And I think that’s entrepreneurs, especially we’re guilty of this where I’m like, I did something incredible. And I’m like, automatically over the next thing. And it’s like, hold on, pause. Maybe it’s not. I just spoke in front of 10,000 people because, for most people, that’s not what it’s gonna be. But maybe it’s I brush my teeth today. That’s where my journey started. Like, for real? I was like, get out of fucking bed dude, go brush your teeth. That in some days, that’s all I did. Yeah. And I think that that’s what people have to recognize. Because that gives you a win. And if you have one win you start stacking them and it becomes exponential and compounding, and then next thing you know, a year later your life is different. How do you so how do you celebrate your wins? How do you take your flowers?

Lesley Logan 38:57
Oh, I’m a verbal processor. So you will hear me around this house going fuck yeah, I’m amazing. Just killed that, like,

Michael Unbroken 39:06
Fucking ego maniac.

Lesley Logan 39:08
Like I do and like so there’s this hilarious story. I was in this program with Jay Grimes and he is one of the last living people to study with Joseph Pilates and you had to like basically assess, to stay in the program. And I was really certainly with this last last portion of it. I could never get all the exercises done in the time that I knew how to get them done. I was really struggling and and I was a little nervous because I was like, oh my god, like if I can’t get this done in this time, I’m going to miss out and I’m not going to graduate with my friends. I’m not going to finish my friends like then there’s an ego of like, do it all over again and wait till next year. And I was like, Hold on. Okay, we’re just gonna visualize it. So I went there that day and I like got there an hour early and I just visualized myself doing every single exercise every single station doing it and like I’m like having a good time. So when I did the actual assessment There was an exercise that I really struggled with and I did it and I as I was finishing, like, fuck yeah, I’m amazing. And I wanted the next thing and he just was like, what? Because no one talks and I’m like, nailed that did that. Whether I did or not this person who was judging me, they’re going okay, I guess she nailed it. But like so that’s my first started noticing that that was one of my best pep talks. For me it was just like saying it out loud. That might not work for other people. You might want to dance or maybe have a high five your kids or something like that. But that worked really well for me. And I still do this to this day.

And when you were talking about that, it made me think of the have you read the book? The Big Leap?

Michael Unbroken 40:36
No, I have not.

Lesley Logan 40:37
Gay Hendricks people listen to the pod. I talk about this book all the fucking time. It’s an annual read for me. If you listen to books on it right now. It listen to it at one point for speed. It’s like your grandfather, you never had read you a lovely story, because maybe your grandfather was lovely. My grandfather’s were like realist, bringing negative people. So like, wasn’t my grandpa, but the grandpa I wanted. So he has, there are different things we do to upper limit ourselves. And specifically, when we are winning specifically, when we like have a win, it pulls us out of our comfort zone, because in our comfort zone, like we’re probably not winning all the time. So when we do something that pulls us out of our comfort zone, there are things that we do to upper limit ourselves and then pull ourselves back in and want there’s a there’s like seven of them. One of them is self-deprecation. Another one is worrying. Another one is picking fights. Some people get sick, I had a client who every time she met a guy that she liked, and had a date with him one date with them, she would lose her fucking voice gone for six months. So the relationship effectively died because there’s no second date because she lost her voice for six months. And I was like, I’m just gonna say this. I think you’re, I think you’re doing this to yourself, I think this is like a nonsense in your head. But like, There’s something so you’ve been on three dates and 18 months and you’ve lost your voice three times like this is really a thing. So I am someone who and you got to know this about yourself so you can catch it. So I’m the person when I complete something. And I have a win I will look for all the things that aren’t completed yet. And I will go focus on like all the things that aren’t going well. So like I had this big win and like well this didn’t go well and this and go on this thing over here is not done and we’re not doing that the right way. Instead of actually just taking a moment to Grant Cardone’s thing picking the flowers and so now it’s so important and Brad is very much on board with us when we have a win we just celebrate the win. Tomorrow, two hours from now, whenever we can actually look at the other things that have to happen but right now it’s just celebrating the win and really like sitting in that and maybe we light a candle I don’t know like what do we do sometimes like the money handle like it happens but like it’s so so important because otherwise you’re just building the muscle that pulls you back into your comfort zone.

Michael Unbroken 42:52
Yeah, what is the money candle?

Lesley Logan 42:54
Oh welcome to my house.

Michael Unbroken 42:56
Is it made out of money?

Lesley Logan 42:58
No it has it has crystals inside and you do an encantation inviting money in and then you light the money candle and then ideally leave it burning until it burns itself out and then there’s crystals inside that are that are like you know incensed with your vision or your dream I’m currently am this week while I’m working burning the obstacle remover candle

Michael Unbroken 43:22
We are so different.

Lesley Logan 43:27
But like I I’m a visual person verbal processor, so having that burning like as soon as like I’m like, oh, like we’re like we’re doing it we’re gonna like it just helps me like remind myself my things, but I get them they don’t pay for this show, House of intuition, they they sell these candles. I fucking love it.

Michael Unbroken 43:44
I laugh because you know me I’m not very (inaudible)

Lesley Logan 43:48
I would say that Brad is a (inaudible) guy and he burns the money candle.

Michael Unbroken 43:54
Mine is sage like because I have seen like where you might I don’t necessarily want to go down this path but like I have seen shit and yeah, I need to sage immediately.

Lesley Logan 44:03
Do you sage with like burning the sage or do you have sage spray? Or do you both? The burning? Oh, I’m gonna show you when you leave the house. I’m gonna show you my sage spray. You need to take it on your trip. It’ll fit in your travel pack because you’re seeing 10,000 people you got to save yourself.

Michael Unbroken 44:16
Yeah, yeah, there’s something interesting about like, as I go deeper into my own personal journey, whether it’s with psychedelics, or whether it’s just through meditation, or just feeling energy, I’ve come to realize I’m actually an empath, which is really strange because I always have been able to pick up on tones of emotions feelings, that is a fucking buzzword everybody’s an empath now it’s like shut up. No, you’re not. And then it’s like, I feel that and it’s like, I realize especially through podcasting, and bringing all these different people into my home into my studio into my life. I’m talking about really heavy shit. Like there’s something and look, it might just be psychosomatic where I’m like, if I just sage this house, like I feel better. Yeah. Sage my backpack, like, whatever. That’s probably my (inaudible) thing.

Lesley Logan 45:05
I actually, I think that that’s, you know, I think some people might like see a white light that cleanses them, I think it’s important to have some rituals that help you kind of shed things that are now are not needed in the moment you’re in because shit happens like, your mom’s going to text you at the worst fucking time and you’re like, oh, I don’t have time to deal with that right now. And it’s like, so it’s like, you’ve kind of have to figure out what works for you. To get back into the headspace you need to be in for the thing that you’re wanting to do.

Michael Unbroken 45:34
Yeah, and not be dogmatic too. Like, I think one of the things that I’ve grown tremendously over the years is to not be dogmatic, right, because that I have found that that is the ultimate fixed mindset. Yeah, you know, when it’s like, if you’re dogmatic about anything, and there’s no room for opportunity touches a favor and grace. And then suddenly, you’re like, it’s kind of like these people that we coach, right? Because on this one hand, you, you have to be exposed to this new idea. And we lay it out in front of you. And it’s like, if you are unwilling, I remember I’ve only ever, I’ve never shared this before. So be cautious in the way that I do. I’ve only ever let go have one client ever in almost a decade of doing this. And this person was so incredibly dogmatic in their belief that this wouldn’t work that I had to fire them. Yeah, I believe I hire my clients in the same way they hire me. But it’s my time. It’s my energy. It’s my resources. That’s my team, it’s. And so this person, I would sit in front of them. And we would have these conversations, and I’m exploring opportunity. And the thing I’m always trying to lay within people’s framework is like, be solution oriented. Because if you can just do that there’s so much potential in front of you, instead of looking for roadblock, look for possibility. Yeah. And like this, this person, they just refused. And I fire them. And I remember thinking in that moment, you talk about like, evaluating yourself as a person who does this. I’m like, am I a bad coach? Because I couldn’t win that person. And I was recently with my mentor, and we have an interview show every Wednesday, where we interview just for three to four people ever, like 600 episodes almost. And I came in later. So I haven’t been there for all 600. But the one of the guys were coaches name’s Bill, last name fucking escapes me right now. So I apologize. But he said something fascinating to me. He goes, players win games, coaches win players. And, and I was like, but you can’t win them. All. Right. And that applies to every, like, that’s a great parable for life. Because it’s like, you can’t win all the time. Right? You’re going to suck as a coach, you’re gonna suck as a partner, you’re gonna suck as a podcaster. You know, as a mom and a dad, as a employee or a business owner, you’re gonna have days where you just don’t win. But it’s like, can you just keep going?

Lesley Logan 48:02
I actually, that’s awesome. I really love thinking like that. Because, um, it goes kind of goes back to like, nothing is ever as bad or as good as we’re going to expect. Like, like, the worst-case scenario rarely happens. And the best case scenario rarely happens like Brad love you. And he, I love his sheets, like I love like his sheets, like all his calculators, like, we can do this. And I’m like, okay, so it’s probably not going to hit that money, it’s probably going to hit around like 75% of that, that. So do I want to do it for 75% of that? Is that enough? Is that like, you know, you can have to like understand that, but you’re not going to win them all. And what I really find as a as a strength that I have, is that when shit hits the fan, I’m like, Okay, what else is possible? Like I do really well when like, when when something comes up, of course, I’m not perfect. You guys. I do feel my feelings. There are like, a bunch of Fuck yeah, what the fuck is going on? How to who did what? And then it’s like, okay, so Well, we’re not going to quit now. Like, we can’t stop. So what can we do? And I love that question. Like what is possible? I wonder there’s a reason why it’s tattooed on my left thumb, because I’m left handed. So when I see it, I go, I wonder. I wonder, I wonder like, you open up a loop and your brain can’t stop thinking until you close it. And to go back to that client you fired. When you’re like, No, that’s not going to work period. It, correct. Because you’ve put a you, you haven’t even your brain is not going to search for evidence for it to be true.

Michael Unbroken 49:29
So going back to the big leap, there’s something I think about a lot and that’s like the next level. There’s a guy named Bishop TD Jakes. You know this guy?

Lesley Logan 49:39
Was he not on Oprah?

Michael Unbroken 49:41
He may have been.

Lesley Logan 49:42
Is he a pastor?

Michael Unbroken 49:43
Yes. So he’s a pastor.

Lesley Logan 49:45
Black guy?

Michael Unbroken 49:45
Heavyset black dude.

Lesley Logan 49:46
Love him. Love him.

Michael Unbroken 49:48
Super (inaudible) very booming

Lesley Logan 49:51
He has a voice for pastorship.

Michael Unbroken 49:54
One of the probably most prolific speakers of our age. I don’t necessarily align in a lot of ways with him. But you don’t have to. You don’t have to. This is one things I think all the time. Like, you don’t have to always like people to learn from them. And he said something so fascinating that I think applies to everything in life. And I think about this almost every day, literally almost every day. He goes new levels, new devils. And that’s what I think about in this journey. Because it’s like, as we continue to progress and grow, like the next thing is coming. I think about that all the time. It’s like Fuck, man. Like this idea that it’s gonna get easy if slash when, doesn’t exist.

Lesley Logan 50:39
No, I interviewed Ripley Rader. And she had that idea. She’s a, you probably don’t get these ads, Michael. But I do. She’s got these amazing pants look on everybody, right. And so I interviewed her and she had said to her first PR team, she’s like, Oh, my God, it’s going to be so much easier when x and they looked at her and said, No, you’ll just work more. It’ll, you’ll get there. And then you’ll just keep working. Like, it’s not easier when and I think if you the sooner you can learn that, the less disappointed you’ll be in life. And the more opportunities you’ll actually look for TD, TD, he was on Oprah years ago, you guys, I don’t know how long ago, but I was I was listening to like, you know, Oprah Supersoul podcast, which is like clips of her show. And this woman was like telling a story. And then it got her life got worse, and her life got worse. And they cut her off. And they said, Stop with the story, because it’s just a story. And they’re like, if you actually want to move forward with your life, you have to let that go. You have to start, you have to stop holding yourself to the story and your life being what it is because of this instead going what is possible right now. And he told his whole story about some dog, boy, the mom was hit by a car. And so she owned like, she only worked with three legs. And so you drag one of her back legs and so that all the puppies drag their legs. And the reality is it’s like they didn’t have to they had functioning legs, but they were following along with their mom. And it really we go oh my gosh, like, if I like I don’t have kids. But if I don’t work on myself, I don’t actually figure out how to make things happen then everyone who does get impacted by me will do things the same way just based on observing me. So I want to like better myself the best I can. So I’m not leading people to drag a leg when they don’t need to.

Michael Unbroken 52:17
Yeah, that’s so good. You know, it’s funny, as I just came back from Indianapolis, I grew up there. My little brother just graduated the police academy. And I was having a conversation with my other brother as he was like getting ready to go on stage and do all this shit. Or it might have been after it’s one of the I don’t remember kind of like that windows all mushed into one time. And he goes, this wouldn’t have happened if it wasn’t for you talking about me. Because if you go look at my life, 25 years old, I’m morbidly obese, smoking two packs a day drinking myself to sleep. I’m massively in debt. I got my car got repoed my fucking girlfriend found out I was cheating on her with like 18 people it was I’m not exaggerating, exaggerating that at all. One of my brothers literally goes never talked to me again, you’re not my brother, like my life was complete shambles 13 years ago. And last week, this brother looks at me and goes, this wouldn’t be possible without you. And it all comes down to this what you just said. It’s like people are watching. They’re paying attention. They are looking at you. They’re following you. They’re tracking you. They’re measuring you. And it’s like, I decided to take my brother’s to a Tony Robbins event. Because even though I’m the trauma guy, and I’m the coach, and you know, all the books in the podcast, and billboards in Times Square of like, don’t give a fuck, they’re my brothers. They could not care less. Right. They care, but like, less.

Lesley Logan 53:45
Yeah, it’s true.

Michael Unbroken 53:47
And so I take them to Tony, and like, their wives are different. But that started with me, or 13 years ago, when my lowest moment I was enough. I had enough of my own bullshit. And it’s like, you keep dragging that leg and you wonder why your community sucks. Why Your family is failing. Why your money sucks. Why your relationship is garbage. Why? It’s always someone else’s problem. Like look in the mirror. You were homeless. It was your fault. Lake, you know what I mean? I’m literally talking to you. Yeah, it’s like, it’s like, you look at that, and people go, No, it’s not your fault. Um, so life is so hard. It’s like for everyone. Yeah. So why do you think you’re special?

Lesley Logan 54:30
Yeah, I I, one thing I’m really grateful for is my, my, my parents. My dad did a really good job of making sure I knew that there will always be someone richer, smarter, prettier, more experienced than me. Like no matter how high you get today, there’s going to be someone who beats you. So you have to always celebrate the work that you did and you’re only as good as the the effort you’re going to put forward because there’s always something better and also, get the fun gotta hear. So there was like this, like, you can be anything you want. And like, and the kindest way but like he really was like, do not get stuck here. But do not get hung up. But you’re the best thing that ever happened to this planet.

Michael Unbroken 55:16
Princess mentality super dangerous. heard one of my friends called her kid a princess the other day and I was like, Dude, you’re setting them up for failure?

Lesley Logan 55:23
Yeah, I think that like I, one of my my dearest friends, his parents actually never celebrated their grades, they only celebrated the effort, because they’re like, so what if you got an eight week Saturday and I have tutors and the best school like you will have you have all the money in the world. So you should get nothing more than the best grade. But did you? Do you like the effort you put into it was the effort you put in worthy of that grade?

Michael Unbroken 55:46
Have you okay, so I love that. Have you ever accomplished a goal that the accomplishment itself felt better than the effort you put in to get to the goal?

Lesley Logan 55:57
I don’t think so. Because like, I mean, I think I’m obviously I’m looking back now at things. And so now that I understand the difference between the efforting and the actual accomplishment. Like of course I like a lot of people who are listening to my podcast No, I’m, I’m a second generation plug plays instructor. So the accomplishment of becoming that is super cool. But I don’t talk about that certificate. I talk about the journey that got me there. And like that made me the strongest. It challenged me and my mindset and the way I thought about how bodies move and how people act. And how do I teach people in a way that I can never ever go back to the person I was before. So yeah, I think I but I do think that people get obsessed with the accomplishment. They they can’t. It’s like they’re like chasing a like a dog chasing the title. Yes, yes. Yeah. And they’re missing out on like, all the things that they gained along the way.

Michael Unbroken 56:51
I still like here’s what’s interesting. I’m there in some places, but not another’s. Yeah, there was still this place in me where I’m like, like, my goals are the screensaver of my phone. And they’re fucking crazy. Like, be a 10 time New York best selling author. Like that’s insane. Yeah. And I’m like, but here’s what’s interesting, is like, if I don’t hit that goal, fine. Yeah. But I really want to.

Lesley Logan 57:14
Yeah, so we were talking before you hit record, because there’s about James Patrick, the photographer, he was on a show, and we’re talking, he talks about like goals. And he was like, I never have a goal that I’m going to be on the cover of a magazine, like, I’m never gonna have a goal that I’m going to get the cover magazine, because he said, it’s actually not my choice. It is so many people’s choice that I’m not even in the room, I don’t even know all of them. Like, it’s just not it. He’s like, instead, my, my goals are the efforts that could produce that goal. So So, and it doesn’t mean you can’t want to be a New York Times bestseller 10 times over, but that his actual goals for his day for his week for his life are the things that in the put him in the position to get those things. So if he wants to be the cover magazine, he actually has to submit and pitch himself to magazines. And so I work really hard with the people that we coach and our business stuff when they put like, Oh, I’m gonna get seven new clients this month. And I’m like, Hold on, I want that for you. Do you know your conversion rate and how many people it takes you to get a client because that we have to figure out like, how many first time sessions do you have to do if your conversion rate is 50%? Then you need at least 14 First time sessions. Well, then, then we have how do we get for what (inaudible)?

Michael Unbroken 58:33
What’s your CTR? Right? What’s your AOV? Like and then you really start getting into it, right? And like, obviously, that’s for business stuff.

Lesley Logan 58:42
But like it allows you to figure out like, well, what is the actual goal then?

Michael Unbroken 58:45
Because it’s measurable, right? And so it’s like, actually, this is a really good thought. Because it’s like, if I want to write ten New York Times bestselling books, every sentence counts. There’s a book on my shelf right now that I finished called unbroken man. And it’s great, but it’s not phenomenal. So I haven’t published it, and I’m rewriting it entirely. This will be I rewrote think unbroken nine times. This little I’m stepping into rewrite number three, on unbroken man. And it will probably be like 15

Lesley Logan 59:20
Yeah, but I think that that’s but what I love about that, I’m sure like part of you part of it is annoying, because like, why can I get it done? Number three, but the reality is, is that the journey that gets you to the best one that you want to put out there. You learn more about yourself and it makes the book better so that the people who are reading it, get the most out of it.

Michael Unbroken 59:42
Here’s what’s it’s not annoying, though. And here’s why it’s not annoying because I decided it’s done. I can put it out. But would it be good enough to garner me the cover of The New York time? Right

Lesley Logan 59:54
Right because your goal isn’t to write 10 books your book goal is to write 10 worthy bestselling books.

Michael Unbroken 59:59
That’s exactly right. Yeah. And so like you talked about with your clients like are, are your goals too vague? Like, are you not dialed in? Like I know exactly what I want. Yeah. And in the journey as in pursuing it, and you hear people say this all the time. So almost is like, are we banging our head against the table here, but it really is about, like, make a very nuanced, specific goal and move towards it. But here’s what I do. I hate SMART goals, you know, SMART goal.

Lesley Logan 1:00:27
I know. I hate those. It makes me feel like corporate world, thank God.

Michael Unbroken 1:00:31
When people lay in front of me. Create the smart, actionable, timely, shut up. Nothing has ever been timely. No, like nothing you’ve ever done. It’s always taken too long, longer than you thought or happen quicker than you thought. And then what by proxy happens is you get stuck. And you’re like, Man, this isn’t done yet. It’s been four years. Like I thought I’d write think unbroken. And like three months, it took almost three years. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Lesley Logan 1:01:02
Yeah, I I had this woman who was like, you have to do like, God size goals, like your goals need to be like you’d like so. Yeah, we had him back a long time ago. No, like, and I part of me was kind of like, okay, that’s a little unrealistic. But part of me like way she explained, it was like, the goals need to be so big that it can’t be done by just you kicking your own ass. It, it’s going to require preparation meets opportunity equals what people call luck, right? And so she talked about that. And what is fun about that you guys is when you think about a goal that’s not smart. That’s like actually really big and audacious, and like bold and all these things. It allows you to dream and it gets you out of that can never happen. Oh, that’s not gonna happen that amount of time because when we make smart goals, we go okay, well, that can happen in nine months, I guess it has the goal has to be an a year and that like, you know, so we like talk ourselves out of things and we start changing what the actual goal is. But her goal, Her idea was like, just make it super big. And then she’s like, then she’s like, you go all the way back to where you are today. And you just take one step to show the universe to show yourself that you mean business with this? Because hers was you guys, her name isn’t coming to me. So we’ll put in the show notes. But hers was you know, she wanted to have a mansion that music videos were were used, like, used her mansion for you guys. She couldn’t balance a checkbook. She was so in debt, like, and so she’s like, Okay, I’m going to go learn how to balance a checkbook. Millionaires know how to balance their checkbook. And that’s what she did. And you know, what happened is when I interviewed her music, music videos, we’re using her mansion to do videos. And so I really liked that. I think it’s a fun way to make goals happen. But it also I’m a big fan. Like, I love I was the person who did I think we talked about this before, where I would do the maze and I would start at the finish line and I would go backwards. That’s how I did all mazes as a kid like all those games, you know, like you can show interesting cause me to write Yeah, hello. It’s the best. That’s the best way to do it. Well, because it makes sense. Yeah, you got to start so I never did a corn maze. Like as a huge like, I did it one time as a friend. I like fuck this and I cut through the corn maze with my face cover. So I didn’t get cut up. But I was like, this is like a this is causing me so much anxiety. But like, and that’s what everyone does. Everyone’s like, Okay, I see the goal and they’re just gonna like, like, find a staircase to heaven. But like, I’m like, No, here’s the goal. How to make this happen. And you guys, it’s how we’re in this house today. Like people like you can’t move on June 1. That’s nine days. You’re not going to own a house in nine days. Everything takes 30 days to buy a house, like, well, you don’t fucking know how I work and I got it.

Michael Unbroken 1:03:39
Dude, yeah, I remember you texting me and being like I got the house was like good. Yeah, like it’s like commit first and figured out the rest later. Right? And it’s like that is what people are so afraid of that stuckness the fear of just doing it. It’s like you wouldn’t be here I wouldn’t be here without massive commitment to our lives to our mission to our journeys to our community to our craft. Yeah, right you like me ever studious in this podcast game where it’s like we pretty much consume podcasts like most people watch TV and listen to music.

Lesley Logan 1:04:12
No, but have you seen her disc 17 podcast?

Michael Unbroken 1:04:15
Did you listen to this eight-hour Andrew (inaudible) podcast right? And so it’s like it’s like that’s that’s kind of and being studious. Like I study people like this is the thing skills have utility. Most people do not have skills that actually matter. Right? That actually like you can be really good at video games. But like how does that transition into I’m not saying you can’t be successful like at playing video games because you certainly can. But like when you’re trying to build something in your life, how do you leverage the skills that you have that you’re really good at? Because to me like you’re this person who bought the mansion, how to become a good at balancing a checkbook. Like I don’t math, so I just hire someone to do it for me. Yeah, but I didn’t have the skills to afford to hire someone to do it for me. until I build the skills. Yeah. And I think that’s one of the things people miss is they’re like, we’re so indoctrinated by media and society that it’s 30 days, Lesley, nobody does it in a week. It’s 30 days, Lesley, nobody does in a week. And you, you could keep hearing that shit. And next thing you know, you’re like, yeah, they’re right. It’s 30 days. Yeah. And it’s like, you have to be steadfast in your conviction of being committed to the goal. Yeah, because there are going to be naysayers. They’re gonna be people say you can’t, there’s going to be people who they will always look for the objection. And it’s like, you have to not be around those. I’m not around those people. Yeah, no one in my life has negative. Yeah. Because when I tell them my dreams, like sitting here telling you 10 Times New York Times bestselling author, I want to buy a $5 million lake house, I want to do this and do that. If you sat across from me and go, I don’t know, man, you’re thinking too big, you would be out of my wife immediately. And I’m not fucking around. Because you don’t need that energy. Now, because when you look at those people, I can show you the relationships, the friendships and the bank accounts of negative people. Yeah, without even having them beat them.

Lesley Logan 1:06:09
Yeah. So on Sunday, my photographer Sara was in a photoshoot with her. She and I have been working together since 2019. We have started our baby businesses together, like we have been on this journey together. And so I interviewed her again, and she was sharing like some of the scary, bold things that she’s putting herself in a room for that, like she would never put on our vision board. One of those is like photographing, like potentially sting and Coldplay, and all these people like, there’s these big opportunities coming up. And yesterday, she voice messaged us, because she’s on her photoshoot tour where she’s doing some stuff, and she has celebration, and she needed to celebrate someone. And so she told us she’s like, Oh my god, I landed this contract. And we brought in, I immediately called her immediately called her to celebrate on FaceTime, let her cry all the things and what I never said to her ever in life ever since I’ve known her as oh my gosh, Monica, no way. Could you ever as a could you ever photograph Coldplay? You’re never gonna do that. No way. That is not you do not need those people in your life. And if they’re your family, it sucks to like, put them over to OSI. But you have to protect these goals you have and make sure that the people around you who hear them are actually supporters of them. Because it is way too hard. out there already. You do not need extra help to make it harder.

Michael Unbroken 1:07:27
Yeah, and more. So I want people who even will sit with me like that’s not even big enough. For even trying. I was

Lesley Logan 1:07:35
You have said that to me before and I’m like, you’re right.

Michael Unbroken 1:07:39
Well, I’ve said it to you because like it’s like, it’s for a it’s forest for the trees. You can’t necessarily see it because you’re in it and b, we do think too small. Right? As a whole. And so it’s like, you could shoot for that goal and get the 75% and be satisfied. But it’s like, what if the goal was 10 times bigger, I would rather have 75% of 10x. Right. And so when you when I look at it, it’s like I was when I was in India, this I’m only sharing India again, because it was just so fresh. My brothers and I we went and walked around the street fair, just spending time together before I had to hop on the plane on Saturday. And we walk up to this guy’s booth. So it’s like crafts, fair arts fair, local, this local that. And this guy had the super cool. Like in the clothing brand, like very much up my road of the kind of clothing that I wear predominantly black, right? Yes. Our color is a super cool black sweater. And I asked him how much it is. This thing is hand stitched. It’s cotton. So it is screen printed on the back. And I know this world because I used to have a clothing company called click gear back in the day. It’s you know, it’s been close for a long time. But I was in this world. And I put the sweater on and go oh my god, this is the best sweater I’ve ever put on. And in my head. I’m like, I’m buying this. It’s gonna be 120 bucks all day. Yeah, all day. How much do you think this sweater was probably the best one I’ve ever put off?

Lesley Logan 1:09:09
Well, part of me wonders if he’s undercharging. So I’m gonna say he was played hard to like 60 bucks.

Michael Unbroken 1:09:13
50 bucks.

Lesley Logan 1:09:13
Shut the fuck up.

Michael Unbroken 1:09:14
50 bucks. And I look at him and I go, you need to raise your prices. And me saying that made this I could see visibly how uncomfortable he was. And I looked at him. I go Dude, this is one of the highest quality pieces of clothing I’ve ever touched. I was prepared to pay you $120 Just now. And you’re cut and that’s the limiting mindset. Yeah, because people will go no one will ever pay me that. And I go motherfuckers got money. Because let me tell you this, like I’m going to speak at stormy Wellington. I’m interviewing stormy Wellington, who is an MLM expert who went from a stripper at 13 a stripper at 13 to being worth I think she’s worth 50 mil right Now, right? From a stripper 13 fucking years old, and I’m going to interview her at her own event. And I look at people like that, and I go, that woman knows her worth. If she can do it, why can’t you? And it’s fear.

Lesley Logan 1:10:17
Oh, it is. It’s also the people around them are like, no one’s gonna pay that. No, I can’t like it’s right there. Yeah. So I love that we’re talking about this because we, because a lot of people listen to our Pilates instructors. And like, the thing that pissed me off from the day I got into the industry was people saying, oh, there’s no money in Pilates. And so I started teaching Pilates in 2008. It’s the recession, it was the world. Everyone knows what 2008 means, right? And all these teachers has heard of discounting their rates. Because of the recession, I’m like, Okay, I guess it makes like, that makes a little bit of sense. But when I was trying to figure out my rates, everyone’s like, well, you charge less than her because she’s been teaching longer than you might well, she’s discounted her rates. I can’t like I can’t live off of that, like, this is I sell this I live in L.A., there is a like an income level you have to meet to survive Los Angeles with roommates. Right? And so I was like, Fuck, no, I’m gonna charge what she’s charging. That’s her discounted rate. So I’m gonna charge that. And here’s the thing everyone needs to hear, you have to understand that there are people who are looking at you to base their prices. And they’re going, Oh, they have more experience than me. So I should be less than them. You need to create room for those people above all else, like, if you can’t raise your rates for you, then you do raise your rates for the people who are up and coming to give them an opportunity in whatever industry it is to make a living doing it. Like just be kind and thoughtful about those people. But the other thing is, is that there are people out there who want a problem, salt, you want really awesome black sweaters, because you want to wear black. And that’s what you’d like, that’s your power colors, what you want, you want to pay for good quality stuff, you don’t want to pay for something $50. Like, if you had just read the if you’d only sit online, and you saw the price, and like, oh, the quality is probably bad, like, but you touched it. So you knew the quality was good. Not everyone’s going to be able experience, whatever your thing is to actually understand the quality. So you have to understand when you price yourself, if you discount yourself with the thing that I was taught a really, really long time ago was you will be discounted, yeah, people will just stop thinking about you.

Michael Unbroken 1:12:12
And that, and look, and that comes down to your standards, which is what’s really difficult in this country, because we don’t have any. You look at everything in America right now. There is no standard. And like, I’m not shaming anyone for anything that they do ever, but it’s like, look at the way people are operating in this country right now. It’s like I blame you, not my problem, government owes me this, so on and so forth. And like that’s the standard we’re creating in families and communities and businesses. And it’s like, if you people always talk about how underpaid women are in this country, and how underpaid minorities are in this country. You know, I know so many women, minorities, who like make you and I combined look like we’re homeless? Yeah, because they’re out there getting and I’m not saying it’s not hard, right. And I am a fucking minority in case you’re not watching. And it’s like I look at my community, the greatest thing growing up that I would bear witness to have what people defined as success was the first and the 15th. Did I get my government check? And it’s like, I see, I watched that every day as a child to be celebrated. To be basked in. People would be like, Oh, my job cut me by four hours, I get more money from the government. I’m like you forever will be in that until you raise your standard. Your standard of living, your standard of relationships, your standard of money. If you’re underpaid in your job, it’s your fault. And people don’t want to hear that. And this is where I get the most pushback because they go, you’re lucky you figured it out. It’s like no, I’ve been on welfare. I’ve been on food stamps. I’ve got caught. We’re in the Tommy Hilfiger jacket. I’ve been 50 grand in debt. I didn’t have two nickels to rub together or as my grandmother used to say, a pot to piss them. And I look at my life now. And you and I have been in dinners where multiple thousands of dollars where we were what we want to where we travel, how we want to cheer. We got the AMEX platinum, it’s like, yeah, but I didn’t used to and neither did you. But when you raise your standards, even though there’s a consequence to it, you will lose friends, you will lose community, you will be shunned by family members, people will talk shit about you, you will likely have to climb up the hill to get to who you want to be, but your life will be so much better.

Lesley Logan 1:14:39
I love that you’re saying that and I’m so I’m so hopeful that people rewind that and re listen because it is really, really true. Like we’re flying to Scotland, and we have Amex platinum. So we can go into the lounges and when there’s a Centurion lounge, you can bring your guest because we spend enough and then when it’s not a Centurion lounge it’s like a pass priority pass lounge, which we get from having that credit card. We have to pay for the guest and my dad’s like, don’t pay for me. It’s 50 bucks. I said, what we’re gonna go lounge it and you’re gonna sit out here, and like what spend $49 on food in the airport, get the fuck in line. Get in line with us. We’re paying your fair, you’re gonna spend 50 bucks in the airport so let’s go enjoy the Delta lounge, get a free beer, have some fucking shrimp, like eat a meal that you want to eat. And he obviously grew up where that was. That’s insane. And, and I understand that and I don’t want to change anybody want to force anyone to change. But I said Dad, it is okay to take the higher. It’s okay to take the thing that seems unreal. Like, presumably ridiculous. It seems ridiculous to spend 50 bucks to go in this lounge. To me it’s ridiculous to spend $40 on fucking crap Johnny Rockets food in the airport. So but it is it’s raising your standards. It’s also like, it’s not like I could have had this eight years ago, eight years ago, well, 10 years ago, I was homeless. Eight years ago, I was not able to be in the lounge life yet. But I drempt a bit I had on my vision board, I had it on my thing. And I looked for opportunities for when those things could come along. And that is the difference. It’s okay for your for your dreams and your reality to be far apart. But it’s about seeing those opportunities and not letting people and their stories tell you what you can and can’t do with your life. And that’s what most people are. They’re letting the stories that were ingrained in them, tell them what they can do. That’s not real.

Michael Unbroken 1:16:37
Yeah. And look, and also eight years ago, you’d have the skills you sucked. Yeah, call it. Seriously call it what it is. I slept too. I didn’t have the skills eight years ago, yeah, five years ago, four years ago, three years ago, last month. And it’s like if you can leverage that and recognize skills have utility, that’s where growth, you didn’t know how to make a funnel, right? You didn’t know how to create a lead magnet, you didn’t know what conversion meant. You didn’t know how to look at ROI. But then you like take the business aspect out of it, you take it on the life, you didn’t know how to brush your teeth, right? Didn’t know what it meant to clean yourself up every day and go and beat Kempt, you didn’t you didn’t understand what it was like to raise the value of the person that you’re willing to date or be in a relationship and marry. Like it’s something that you build and you grow as you go through this. If you’re fucking paying attention.

Lesley Logan 1:17:26
Yeah, yep, that’s exactly. That’s a great, great place to think about that. You have to, it’s really hard guys. It is not. When you look at people doing things that you wish you were doing. It’s not easy. They don’t have it easier. Like maybe maybe some people had a different starting point. Okay, so that makes it different. But you have to stop comparing your starting point with someone else’s and understand that there is you’re on your own journey. There’s no fucking race. And the more you develop the skill set, and the more you actually welcome the challenges and because you’re gonna learn something, they’re not fucking fun, as long as like yes, challenge, bring it on the last year or so. But on trout challenges, I would never wish more on my enemies. But I am so glad I sit here and gone through them. Because now we’re in another challenge. And like, this is nothing like we’re going to totally get past this because we have all this evidence that we have.

Michael Unbroken 1:18:14
Yeah. And it’s like, so going back to that point, new levels, new devils. But the devil has become easier to fight because you have skills that support and prove that you can. And I think that’s what all this journey is the fear that people have about leaving the relationship or quitting the job or like going and traveling the world. It’s like the second you do it, the fear is gone. Yeah. And that’s the only way that you grow. And I encourage people to do that more, because you’re gonna die. And it’s like, I don’t know about you, but like, my biggest fear is regret. I do not want to wake up and be like, Fuck, this is my last day. And I didn’t do any of the things. Yeah. But I come from a society in which that is totally acceptable.

Lesley Logan 1:19:01
Yeah, I listen. Years ago, I listened to a podcast where a woman who like, did a bunch of books, she spent a lot of time with people on their deathbed. And she wrote a book about and she’s probably very famous, and some people’s probably shouting to me what her name is, I’m sorry, I can’t hear you right now. And I don’t remember the podcasts it was but I remember hearing that she said, interviewing tons of people on their deathbed, the biggest thing was regret. It was absolutely like the things that they did not do when they had the opportunity. And when I tried to figure out like making choices, I will ask myself, Am I going to regret this tomorrow that I didn’t do it? Or am I going to like I was in Brazil and I didn’t really have a lot of extra money and I was like fuck, I’m almost out of money and like I leave in three days. And I was going to skip the hang gliding experience because it was expensive. And and then I asked myself, am I going to regret going home and telling everybody about this trip and they go did you go hang gliding and I’m gonna say no, like, can I Is that okay? With me, am I doing it for them, or I’m doing it for me. And I remember when I really want to have this experience. And so I fucking took out the money. And I did the hanging thing. And here we are 11 years later, I still can picture that moment. So I think that that’s a really great thing I want I know, that we are, we could keep talking forever, because we enjoy each other’s company. But I do want to ask you what you’re what you’re most excited about coming up for you right now.

Michael Unbroken 1:20:25
First, that book is called The Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware.

Lesley Logan 1:20:32
Thank you very much.

Michael Unbroken 1:20:33
It’s actually in my audible so I should probably listen to that.

Lesley Logan 1:20:37
We’ll just do a book club. You listen to that one, you listen to The Big League. When we get back into town at the end of the year, we can talk about it.

Michael Unbroken 1:20:43
Right now. It’s like I’m getting ready to, again that thing, like I’m all about the commitment, like just see what happens. I’m getting ready to head to South America for two months. Yeah, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. Oh, I know. I’m gonna do Ayahuasca I know that’s gonna happen. You do an eight-day retreat. And that, to me is like really about stepping deeper into this journey. There’s, there’s still like, even though like I’ve been on this path for 13 years, there’s still some blackness in my soul. There’s some dark shit I gotta work through. So we’ll see what happens with that. And then it’s like, I’m gonna go to Buenos Aires because I’ve always wanted to I’m gonna go to Lima and Machu Picchu and I’m gonna just like I’m doing. So it came to me in a meditation recently. I always ask myself, I like ideate meditation. I’m not Trying to find Zen, it doesn’t work for me trying to solve problems. And it came to me in this meditation, I was like, What’s the hardest thing that I could do right now? And the answer was rest. And so I’ve been like really injecting myself into that. And so this will be the last phase of the rest to go down to South America for a couple months and then this year, so extremely excited about that, because it’s necessary.

Lesley Logan 1:21:49
I’m excited for you to do that. I can’t I can’t wait to hear how it goes.

Michael Unbroken 1:21:52
What about you.

Lesley Logan 1:21:54
Um, I actually along those lines, I’m about to be gone for three weeks, three weeks out of my routine three weeks and only one of those weeks is where I actually have a timeline on leaving a retreat in Cambodia, but whenever I’m there, because I’m 14 hours ahead of like anybody who needs anything from me there is a near so close to the equator, you guys it’s there’s something interesting about being in that life and in the humidity and, and pretty much everything is organic and plant based. So like it’s just coming from the farm that’s right there. That really helps me pause and I get my best I get my best ideas and I have intentionally not planned as much of next year as possible. We have like literally planned like one big project and one in the retreat for next year and everything else there’s a ton of stuff that we’re going to do we know we have to find dates for it, but I I do not want to find those dates until I come back because I would like to see what comes up for me I want to see what comes up and being still and getting massages every day and sleeping in like literally not waking up to an alarm and just allowing my body to rest like you’re doing but also see what comes up because I know that there is something bigger and bolder and I just need to actually get out of the whirlwind to actually hear it and it is so important to give this opportunity and and then I and then I can’t I fucking can’t wait to come back because I love my house and I love my dogs and I I love the life that I’ve created for myself but I really am excited to just take a pause from it and just see what comes up because I have because of the stress of y’all buying your fucking first house is the hardest thing I’ll ever fucking do and I do not wish it I want everyone to have a house by not wish the journey on anyone because it is painful to prove that you are worthy of the thing that you know you are worthy for because you’re currently paying for it and so to prove to all these fucking idiots that I could that my husband I could afford this house that took us 18 fucking months 18 months of stress and so I never I just really felt like I couldn’t dream again and then after that all went down to the mayor like lives like if you lose like let’s say have a long term having a May y’all recovery is a bitch like it took a lot out of me and I really have been just like taking things as slow as possible just to like really not burn myself out because I love what I do. But I have I’ve let myself go okay and Cambodia we are dreaming again we are we are going to allow ourselves to let visions and ideas and goals and wants in because I cannot wait to see what we do for the next 10 years. I mean like this was a big goal for Brad and I and it took fucking longer than we want it which by SMART goals don’t work.

Michael Unbroken 1:24:31
That’s exactly right. And there’s peace in the pause.

Lesley Logan 1:24:34
Yes, there’s peace and my friend Jackie always says there’s power in the pause like you actually it’s so hard for people to Slow the fuck down but even hummingbirds sleep you guys so like

I’m one of those people and so that’s why I’m doing this.

Yeah, oh, you’re gonna come back with peace and power. Before we wrap this up, you know for my show we do Be It Action Items. So I do need to know some bold, executable, intrinsic target advice you want to give people.

Michael Unbroken 1:24:59
Yeah. Um, I think it really all comes down to commitment to your goals, your dreams, who it is that you want to be who it is that you want to become. And, and as you go down this path, it’s recognizing that you can’t be dogmatic even in those commitments. And you have to just walk the path and whatever supposed to be there will be there.

Lesley Logan 1:25:23
I like that. That’s a big one. That’s pretty bold. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Michael. Thanks for thanks for hanging out with me today.

Michael Unbroken 1:25:30
Of course, it’s super fun.

Lesley Logan 1:25:31
Yeah, people can find you follow you work with you.

Michael Unbroken 1:25:34
Yeah. Michael Unbroken. And then all social medias and then of course, the Think Unbroken podcast. Yeah. And where can they find you?

Lesley Logan 1:25:42
Instagram Lesley.Logan. That’s where I hang out. And this is the Be It Till You See It podcast so you can find us here. Like we said FYF’S every Friday if you need an inspiration to celebrate a fucking win. And Brad joins us and we’ll be talking about you, Michael on Thursday. Get to hear what you have to say about you. Oh, this is so fun. We’ll do it again. Enjoy your power in your pause. And until next time, everyone, Be It Till You See It.

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Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

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Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of the ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.