Overcoming Shame

in Divorce

Ep. 218 with Lesley & Brad

“Embracing your journey and transforming it into a superpower to change lives. ”

Lesley Logan

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Show Notes

Uncover the path to healing in this latest recap episode. Tune in as Lesley and Brad share their advice to navigate divorce with confidence and find your tribe of supportive individuals who will empower you to own your story.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at LesleyLogan.co/subscribe.

In this episode you will learn about:

  • How owning vulnerabilities can be powerful and healing.
  • Embracing your journey and transforming it into a superpower to change lives.
  • Setting intentions to find your tribe and allow conversations to help you process.
  • Why paying attention to your financial situation can be freeing.
  • What being the CFO of your own life truly means.

Episode References/Links:


Brad Crowell: It felt like I was wearing this like monster on my back, right? And, but I was great at hiding it, no? And so it, but it, but it didn’t help me process. It didn’t help me heal. It didn’t help me like experience, engagement with other people with this like, truth out there, right? Because like, I felt like they don’t, it’s none of their business.

They don’t need to know, but it just kept eating at me, and it wasn’t until I began to share with other people, oh yeah, I’ve actually been going through like a divorce right now. That, that, that was the beginning of healing for me.


Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan: Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap, where my co-host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the empowering convo I have with Renee Bauer in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that one, feel free to pause us now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us.

And if you’re listening on the O P C app, it’s very easy. You can see like all like a bunch of recent episodes all at one time. So you can pick and choose however you want. If you’re listening on the other places, I don’t know how they work, but it’s, you know, what you want to listen to Renee’s especially if you’ve ever like felt like, oh my gosh, I’m embarrassed about this past thing I had in my life.

I thought it was so

Brad Crowell: great. Yeah. Very liberating. And also I appreciate the experience that she went through and you know what she’s, how she’s bringing her experience to other people who are suffering and in need. So that was pretty awesome.

Lesley Logan: Yeah, and I was just able to see her in real life at her

Brad Crowell: event and… yeah, in case you’re wondering what we’re alluding to, she’s a divorce attorney.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. Yeah.

Brad Crowell: And she’s actually gone through divorce herself

Lesley Logan: In case you’re listening to this out of order. She’s like… (Brad: Right)

So her book, She Who Wins, which is also the name of her podcast and also the name of her event, comes out this September.

You guys, you can pre-order that book right now. And there’s like special goodies that happen if you do pre-order the book and the way books go, loves, is, it all matters on the pre-orders now. So everything’s always changing.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, that’s the truth. Um, yeah. Well, let’s just jump right into it.

Lesley Logan: So today, Yeah! Is National, International Reef Day. It’s like World Reef Day.

Brad Crowell: yeah, So, not that Lesley and I are surfers by any means… (Brad: but no, but you, we need the reefs). We need the reefs. I’m a big fan of keeping plastics out of the ocean, which is an obviously an incredible it’s incredible how much plastic is currently in the ocean. In fact, when we were just flying to Korea on the way we stopped over in Honolulu. We had a layover there. Both ways. And I was watching a really fascinating documentary about the native, bringing back the native Hawaiian culture from like thousands of years. And they talked about the pan Pacific, you know, the ocean as if it was like its own continent. And how, you know, thousands of years ago people jumped on canoes and they explored the oceans by the stars. Like, could you imagine? Oh my gosh. Like the way that people took a wagon and drove across North America. Wow. No. they were like, we’re gonna go that way and hope that we hit land.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And the, and the scars are moving, but that’s fine.

Brad Crowell: I mean, pretty intense. Anyway, they, they were, they were talking all about the reefs and it really got me fired up about them again.

Lesley Logan: So, so y’all get rid of your sunscreen and make sure you have sunscreen that is safe for, well, this is, I guess if you’re going to a pool, do whatever you wanna do.

But if you’re going into natural waters, you’re going into the ocean, you must use a special sunscreen. So if you actually go to this World Reef Awareness Days site, they say you can observe this day by doing beach cleanup. You could become a virtual diver. Which I guess you do virtual tours. What, how is that helping anyways? Don’t know this is their suggestion. Well, you probably just, I think once you’re aware of things, it’s hard to like be an asshole.

Then you can make your own sunscreen that’s actually really healthy for the reefs. So those are some things you can do. But truly, honestly, like if you can…

Brad Crowell: Just roll in mud, that’s your sunscreen.

Lesley Logan: I think they have bees wax in there, which is only concerning because of the bees. We have a problem with the bees shortage and then there’s a, y’all, there’s a lot of stuff going on.

Please be kind to the reefs cuz we actually really do support the ocean’s microbiology and it actually affects your life in other ways if you don’t, if you live near an ocean.

So talk like, you know, do the right thing. Call your friend who’s going to the beach and make sure they’re not using sunscreen that’s gonna kill the reefs. Yeah. Anyways, we also have some other stuff going on right now.

So, this is coming out June 1st. We’re a couple weeks away of doing a webinar for Profitable Pilates on how to convert first time clients.

So if you are a Pilates teacher or trained to be one. You will want to be at this webinar. Agency members, of course, you get the VIP ticket for free. If you’re not an agency member, you can buy a ticket to the live. You’ll have a three day replay. You can also, there’s opportunities to buy a V I P ticket and also get to keep the replay forever, which is way cheaper than buying it when it’s a course.

So you’ll want to actually go to the show notes below to actually sign up for the wait list or to sign up for the webinar.

Brad Crowell: And if you’re watching, if you’re listening to this after that’s already occurred, get on the wait list anyway, because we do these webinars periodically throughout the year. And they’re all, they’re on these various topics and all stuff, so you’ll be the first to know when you’re on the wait list.

And we give you all sorts of hookups and stuff, so check out the show notes.


Lesley Logan: And then in July we have the Mullet tour in the northern part of the UK, Claire Sparrow’s studio, which we’re so excited about.

Brad Crowell: Oh, I cannot wait

That’s exciting. It’s gonna be amazing.

Lesley Logan: At the time that we’re recording this, we only have four spots left.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, I know. It’s insane. It’s awesome. Yeah. It’s so exciting.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. And it’s a really great small group. We’re so, so, so excited about it. In August, we are doing our summer tour.

We have not released the cities yet, but we’ll release so soon. So make sure you stay tuned.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. All right. And then we actually, we, you know, you’ve heard us talk about all, our, all the rest of our plans and all the things, but yeah, summer tour is gonna be super fun and we’ve got some exciting news about that coming to you soon, with some sponsors and all sorts of stuff that’s kicking off. So it’s gonna be great.

But before we do that, let’s see, we have an audience question today. From Karen Campbell. Thanks for submittingg this question. Karen is saying I’d be interested to see an episode about menopause and specifically how to best support health for premenopausal women with herbal remedies. I saw a few episodes in lineup on women’s health and maintaining hormonal balance. So maybe this topic’s already been covered.

If it hasn’t been done, could you bring on a specialist to discuss it?

Lesley Logan: So we are working on a menopause expert. To be honest, it’s actually been a little tricky.

Hmm. So we are working on getting an actual expert just in menopause. So we have, thank you, Karen, for bringing this up. But here’s the other thing about pre-menopause and all this stuff.

It’s so different for every single person. Like it is so different.

So here are some, some places you can go for some more information for you right now until you wait.

I don’t want you to wait for this advice. So here’s the thing, there’s a book called Menopocalypse. Yes. I’m trying if you know the author of Menopocalypse everyone. I would like her on the show if she’s listening to this, if she’s to Google alert, hello, I want you on the show. The book is called Menopocalypse.

Even Brad listened to that book as well… (Brad: Idid.) It’s really, really helpful.

She explains like all the stuff about perimenopause and menopause that I like, a lot of stuff that they just don’t talk about. And also the fears that are out there that are …(Brad: Amanda Thebe) yeah. Thebe. So, hi Amanda. Come on the show.

Then also you guys, Sara Gottlieb. I heard her on Huber’s podcast.

Uh, she has several books out there and she actually has a hormone reset book. I have not done the hormone reset, to be honest. Elimination diets get a little bit hard for their, I have tendencies. I try to avoid those kinds of things. So Brad’s been with me on elimination diets.

We just are trying not to do them anymore.


Brad Crowell: I just, that’s the point where I just tell her it’s all in your head, babe.

Lesley Logan: No, it’s not. So here’s the deal. However, my dear friend has done Sarah

Gottlieb’s hormone reset and really did get some value out of it in her peri menopause journey. Cool. So Sara Gottlieb has some great books on hormones, hormonal diet you can do, and also has been on a Huberman talking about that.

Hmm. When it comes to herbal remedies, I look, I wish that I could tell you what those are. I’m not actually perimenopausal yet, so I haven’t dove into myself. But in Amanda Thebe’s book, there was some really great stuff including breath work. So you guys breath work is. Breath work, breath work, breath work.

You could just do so much. And for what, what Amanda brought up was box breathing, which is inhale for four.

Hold for four. Exhale for four. Hold for four.

Brad Crowell: And I do this to go to sleep sometimes.

Lesley Logan: Yes. Yes. It’s so helpful. But it’s very much about expanding the gut and breathing all the way down into your pubic bone.

And then when you exhale, she was like, and imagine just like pulling up, you know, your privates up like, a tissue coming out of a box and like that’s how you excel. So it’s not like the. Force like compressive, but like very much a uplifting exhale. Hmm. And that could be really, really great. …(Brad: good visuals.)

So, as far as maintaining hormone balance, balance, you guys do not be, like, there’s a lot of stuff out there about

H R T. It’s just hormone replacement therapy.

If it works for you, it works for you.

Brad Crowell: So, yeah, she, in Amanda Thebe’s book, you talked about that and, and yeah, I thought it was an interesting, I’d never even heard of it. So yeah, it was an interesting, like, exposure to what it is, what it could be, what it isn’t, how like it’s been. You know, there’s like good and bad things out there about it. So,


Lesley Logan: So until I can get a specialist on here, and again, I’m working on it, I’m, it’s, I’m trying to find. Someone who schedule lines up with mine, I would highly recommend those two, those two books. And then also telemedicine’s really amazing. There are specialists, there are female doctor specialists in this that will do a telemedicine talk with you, and then you can get some, cream, some hormones, some patches.

Um, the other thing is, is like anything you have to be connected to your body. You guys. So if you are someone who’s walking around a little bit disconnected, you might not understand that some of the symptoms you have are perimenopausal. You might be thinking that it’s food or that it’s stress or something like that.

So, just journal what’s going on in your body right now. So until you can find the person that really works for you, you can keep a log of how you’re feeling on each day cuz then when they ask you how long you’ve been feeling like this, you don’t feel like, I don’t know how long I’ve been feeling

Brad Crowell: like this.

That’s a good point. because that’s something you can start right now. For free. For

Lesley Logan: free.

So Karen, I hope to have a specialist soon. We’ve had other people wanting a menopause expert. I hear you. It’s coming. And hopefully that gives you some help for right

Brad Crowell: now.

Love it. Okay.

Now let’s talk about Renee Bauer

With two decades of experience as a divorce lawyer.

Renee has emerged as a powerful advocate in the women’s empowerment space. She’s forged a platform that bolds her self-worth and champions women’s decision making, rooted in empowerment and financial independence.

Lesley Logan: Um, mm-hmm.

I’m gonna jump in.

Brad Crowell: Do it.

Lesley Logan: So, um, I actually loved that she just talked about owning it. She was like, you know, she was telling her story about how she was like, ashamed to say that she’s a divorce twice.

Like, and then she just happened to share on a podcast with a friend like that she was, and people are like, oh my God, thank you so much.

And she realized that like what she was ashamed of was actually like the thing that helped connect her to most people. And so I really love that she, she is, was a proponent of like, just own the thing that scare, like, makes you worried that people are gonna be ashamed of you because it actually makes you vulnerable and makes people be able to trust you.

And as we’ve talked about, like she’s really like, The best person to help everybody decide if they are, should be getting divorced on, like, what their next steps should be because of her experience.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. I was encouraged by her, you know, just the fact that she has seen both sides of the equation. And also, you know, like being an attorney, you know, she’s arguing on behalf of her clients, but she can also relate to her clients. I thought that was pretty cool. You know? When I went through my divorce, it was really interesting because I felt all the same things that she was talking about.

Shame. She talked about shame. I felt so ashamed that I was even considering the concept, you know, or that it was actually being like, forced on me cuz I didn’t want to do it at first. I didn’t wanna do it at all, in fact. And then when it, you know, after it happened, I really had to come to grips with that idea of, of like, you know, okay, I am a divorced person now.

And that was a whole, it was like a new identity. I don’t even know why I felt like it was that, but it was, you know? So the fact that she can relate to the people going through it, it was really powerful.

Well, and also like

Lesley Logan: in our own life, there’s been different people in our lives who are going through that and they were so embarrassed and they were like kind of shutting down and like people weren’t able to like really talk to them.

And it’s like, well, you can.

you know, because you’ve been through that and like, I think it’s just so important to not be ashamed of the journey that you have, whatever that was. Maybe you’ve never been, maybe you’ve never been married. like some people are ashamed that they get to a certain age and they’ve never been in a long term like, the thing.

Yeah, sure. The shame is such a thing that keeps us from shining our light and like you have this amazing skillset, whoever you are, whatever that is, to actually change lives around you. And if you’re letting that journey that you’ve been on, be something you’re ashamed of, when really it’s actually the superpower that makes you who you are and makes you able to connect with people.

So I just love that she is owning this. And it is actually, it’s actually what’s, what’s taking her with the book and with her event. It’s really cool.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, I think that, also, you know, one, one thing that, she you know, She said, just own it.

It sounds very glib to say that like from, if someone had just come to me and say, just own it, Brad, you’re divorced or you’re getting divorced, it would’ve been really hard for me to be like, okay, I’m in on that.

Like, no problem. But let me tell you from my own personal experience, I began to heal when, and only when I quote unquote owned it. And for me it wasn’t like this idea of like, I guess I’ll just be this divorced person now. But what it was for me was I began to own it by no longer avoiding it in conversations with others. Right? Because it was so easy for me to just never bring it up. And so I’d meet people and they would never know that I’m like, for me, it felt like I was wearing this like monster on my back. Right? And, but I was great at hiding it, no? And so it, but it, but it didn’t help me process. It didn’t help me heal. It didn’t help me, like, experience engagement with other people with this

like, truth out there, right? Because like, I felt like, they don’t, it’s none of their business. They don’t need to know, but it just kept eating at me, and it wasn’t until I began to share with other people, oh yeah, I’ve actually been going through like a divorce right now that, that, that was the beginning of, of healing for me. Processing. So, yeah. …(Lesley: I love that you said that.)

Yeah. So, yeah, and actually, you know, she, her quote was exactly that and that’s when I realized I need you to talk about this and not be ashamed about it.

So. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, one thing that I loved that she said was, find your
tribe. And, again, I felt this, I found this to be particularly challenging, the idea of just meeting strangers on the internet to like be in a group of divorced men like that, felt like, uh, I don’t know these fucking people, you know? And I was, I was not really okay with that.

So my, so I didn’t actually go to an online community. But what I did end up really turning to were my close friends. And, you know, they weren’t divorced, but they knew who I, they knew me, they knew me before my ex-wife, you know, for years before. And so having that support system was, I couldn’t really go to my family. It was weird. I, you know, I didn’t feel like that was okay to talk about it with my folks, you know, or my siblings, you know.

But having the community around me like really helped me get through it. And that’s what she’s talking about here.

So your tribe doesn’t need to be like, it could be an online community of people who like, don’t know you or you don’t know them. And that you could find freedom in that, cuz there were some times where I felt like

It was okay to quote unquote air my dirty laundry with people who I never would meet again.

I’d never see them again. It didn’t fucking matter if they judged me because I was like, yeah, your opinion means nothing to me.

And then alternatively finding your tribe with people who do care about you. you know? You could be doing that too.

Lesley Logan: Well also, like you had friends from before you were married. I was not divorced, but after I left my ex five years, I didn’t have any.

because all of, I moved to LA and then we started dating shortly thereafter.

And so all of my friends were his friends. So when I left, it waslike, poof, gone. And I have to tell you guys, there’s this one story that is like just, oh my gosh, I wish I could have a video of it so you could just see what was like. But I was in line for this movie through the cemetery and I’m in this line. I’m like waiting. I’m by myself cuz my one friend that I made, the one friend that I made was looking for parking. And so I’m by myself and this line and the way the line goes is it snakes back and forth.

And so I’m walking and I can see. Part of the line walking towards me cuz they’re about to turn in the corner.

And my brain saw a friend, somebody who I was friends with because of my ex and my brain didn’t go. Danger warning, run away. And so I was like, hi. Right.

Like, oh my God.

And they’re like, oh my God.

And then behind them was my ex.

And they’re like, oh my God. And then behind him was this girl he was in and she was like, oh my God, at everybody. And then all I hear was, We’re gonna have to pass her over and over again.

Brad Crowell: Oh, right. Cause The line snakes back and forth.

Lesley Logan: Snakes back and forth. And I was just like, oh my God. And I’m likes, I’m like, I’m like, I don’t care if you have to double park, you park your car, you need to get your, I’ll pay the ticket.

I don don’t care. We had to pass each other 11 times. Oh.

At any rate, I only had this one friend at the time, but she was also making friends. And so when it says find your tribe, like that can be hard work.

And it was effort. And yes, that was a really terrible moment in my life, 11 times. Oh my God.

But, but I did find friends and those friends led me to more friends. And those led to more friends. And then it put me to finding myself more. And now, while I don’t have a lot of those same friends, because we’ve moved and everyone’s life has changed. And welcome to LA it’s a very transient town.

It did help me find myself, to get me to a place where I could like go on to other things.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. Yeah. Renee talked about joining a yoga group. Right? And how that became, like a lifeline to staying in community with people. And you know, she, she actually said, you know, you’re either gonna, she told herself, you’re either gonna sit here all day and feel bad for yourself, or you’re gonna put on some leggings and you’re gonna go to yoga and you’ll probably feel better at the end.

And I couldn’t agree with her more. I mean, it was really easy to stay home, drink a bottle of wine, watch a movie, and, and feel, you know, like shit. And it wasn’t until I began to intentionally go out again, and that allowed those conversations with others to happen, that processing to happen. So, yeah, well, so honestly, I mean, that was, that was quite a trip down memory lane. I’m not gonna lie, I feel like I’ve heard this story about you bumping into your ex, but I didn’t realize. Uh, it was clearly at the movies at

It was a business. yeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly, And you wanna, that’s the only line that I could think of where you were like, oh.

I can I, can I tell you guys the best part? This is, okay, lemme just tell you the best part. I know we’re running up on time, but lemme tell you this.

So you take pictures at the movies and it was the slumber party night. It was the night where there was three movies in a row.

And so we had my friends and I, once I got there, we like, got our picture taken.

And in between the movie, the first movie and the second movie, they were showing the picture that had been taken up on the mausoleum. you guys, it’s like the biggest block of wall. And when my picture came up with me and my two friends, it stayed up.

For minutes. And I laughed so hard. I looked at my friends, I’m like, I’m good.

I’m outta here. Like I they are having to sit here and like, look and look. And I had this big cloak hood on.

It was all scary movies. And so I just looked like,

I was like looking down upon the people. Brilliant.

And so get this the next, the Monday after I get an email. Nice picture.

Anyway, we should get

Lesley Logan: into these Be It action items real quick.

Brad Crowell: Yeah. All right. So let’s finally, let’s get into these, Be It action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Renee Bauer? The biggest thing she talked about was knowing your money. Which is like a hundred percent what we talk about with business.

So it’s so funny. But personally that’s very liberating, you know? And what’s so crazy is like it was like the reverse of the conversation. She said most women come to her and they’re like, he took care of all the bills.

I actually have no idea about any of it.

And that’s how my ex and I was, I didn’t actually manage any of it. So when we split, I was like, how much are we in debt? What? I had no idea. Right? I didn’t know anything and it was like really crazy.

And, and I totally agree that if I had, you know, felt, if I had paid attention, You know, like I think, I don’t think it would’ve been an issue for me to pay attention during the relationship of like, Hey, yeah, I just wanna, like, understand things.

Then it would’ve been a lot more freeing. But I never paid attention at all. Yeah.


Lesley Logan: Yeah. I really like that card of the, of the interview and I highly recommend listening to that part if you haven’t, cuz it’s really great. No matter if you’re in a happy marriage or not. Like it’s just so everyone, everyone should just be aware of what’s going on, cuz then you know what your options are all the time.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, and I’m, I’m glad you shared about how we operate today because, you know, it’s starkly different than how I used to do it. Today you and I actually have a monthly meeting for the company. But that incorporates, you know, pretty much our personal life too. And that allows us both to be understanding where we are and, and all the things.

So, yeah.

Lesley Logan: And this takes us into one of the Be It action I love, which is like, treat yourself like you are the CFO of your own life. And I think that like, goes along with what you were saying about your last marriage. It’s like, I think it’s really easy if you don’t like money or if money was like a bad thing that you’re raised to just like, ignore the money and I don’t want it cuz it’s a problem and I don’t want whatever.

But the actual reality is, is like no matter if you’re in a marriage, not in a marriage and a great one.

The more we are aware of the finances in our life, the more options we have.

And you know, you can, this could be the thing you Be It Till You See It at this season. It’s like, I’m gonna be a CFO of my life.

What does a CFO do? Well, they know the numbers. Okay, what are my numbers? All right, what do I, what are my goals for my numbers to be what do I, want this money to be doing? And like, even if that’s just that you have a donation goal that you wanna make, like that would be a really great thing for y’all to do.

So this was a fun interview. I really love Renee.

It was just so great. And y’all should get her book.

Brad Crowell: Yeah, I think so too. And it’s upcoming right now, so

I don’t actually remember what the title of it was.

She Who

Lesley Logan: Wins?

Brad Crowell: Oh, the book is called

She Who Wins?. ..(Lesley: Mm-hmm. And her podcast is too great. so there you go.)

Yeah. So we will, we will put the link for that in the show notes. And thanks

so much for joining us.

Lesley Logan: Yeah. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell: And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan: We are so grateful for you. This is so much fun. Oh my gosh, we’re almost about hit two years with this podcast. I feel like we’re like a day or two away, so we’ll probably have to do that in FYF. But thank you for being you and we wanna know how you use these tips in your life tag the Be IT Pod, tag Renee Bauer, and until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell: Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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