Shownotes

Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. They are the key to success in every aspect of your life. They are what allows you to use your full space given on this earth and be able to return to those you love the most. They create health relationships and mindsets that seep into every area of your life. Tune in for this episode for steps to establish these transforming boundaries, especially around the holiday season.

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In this episode you will learn about:

• Tips to surviving and creating boundaries during the holiday season.
• The messy backpack experience and how to use it.
• The two things celebration achieves.
• How to make it easier to uphold your boundaries.
• Who are you giving your 15 minutes too?
• The two types of availability.

Episode References/Links:

• Tour Info: onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour
• Join us on a retreat! lesleylogan.co/retreats

Transcript

Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.

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Lesley Logan
Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co host in life, Brad and I are going to dig into the boundless convo I had with Tanya Dalton in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that one, you’re going to want to go back, listen to that one, and then listen to this one. Because first of all, she’s frickin amazing. Second of all, everything will you’ll want to hear the recap with that. So it’s like seven to 17 reminders of how much you need to have boundaries.

Brad Crowell
This was a really amazingly actionable conversation. And also, like really inspiring. She is a powerhouse. (Lesley: She’s powerhouse.) Yeah.

Lesley Logan
And she knows that which I love. I love when people own their shit. So I, there’s a lot going on, actually, in real time, Brad actually is in Philly as we speak.

Brad Crowell
I probably just landed.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. But I’m still missing Cambodia, like I really just, I just am, I really want to go back. I wish we were going back sooner than later. But at any rate, you probably saw the pictures, you’re still seeing them and have a lot of FOMO. So if you haven’t yet, done it, get on the waitlist for the next one, so that you don’t have FOMO anymore. And you can just go. And if you’re thinking, “Oh my gosh, you guys have so much going on. I’ve got kids, I’ve got all these things.” Guess what you’re going to ask for help for your kids to be taken care of. So you can go and retreat yourself. (Brad: Yeah) So go to lesleylogan.co/retreats.

Brad Crowell
Do it. Come join us. Well, we also got back from a road trip just before I went to Philly.

Lesley Logan
I know it’s been a little crazy.

Brad Crowell
And we we actually this I’m putting this out into the future here. But we saw the damn Grand Canyon.

Lesley Logan
We saw it. We saw it. Oh my gosh, if you’re on the newsletters, Amanda, our producer was like, “Hey, do you have those pictures of how you did see the Grand Canyon?” And I said, “Oh yeah.” So I texted her the pictures. And I forgot how much you can’t frickin see because we didn’t see anything. And I was like, “Maybe I’m being dramatic.” And when I looked at the pictures, nope, not being dramatic never saw it, definitely was a white wall. So if you’re on our list, you saw those pictures from our life. And we saw the Grand Canyon. I’m so excited about it. And I’ll tell you more about all the details of what we did there in a future episode. But I am just so grateful that we got to take a day for ourselves and check out the Grand Canyon. (Brad: Yeah) And here’s the thing, Brad’s gonna come back from Philly, I’m going to head to Dallas to teach. And if you’re wanting to know if there’s any space left in the workshop with Erika Quest, and I just DM me on Instagram, because I don’t know in this exact moment if there will be or not. But I will tell you that I am going to be back in Texas to teach some classes and only be in Texas, we’re going to be in Nashville, Atlanta, Greensboro … more and more more. It’s really friggin awesome. Brad just loves to put me on tour. It’s like living out his music days. So go to onlinepilatesclasses.com/tour. If you are in the States, and you’re wanting to be in a pilates workout with me, and you know, maybe get away from some holiday shenanigans for a moment to, you know, serve yourselves with Pilates.

Brad Crowell
Well, speaking of those shenanigans, that leads us directly into our question.

Lesley Logan
I know, I really do. I saw this question come through. And I’m like, “Yeah, we should talk about this on this episode.”

Brad Crowell
That was a heck of a transition right there. So how do you handle family and the holidays when it comes to boundaries?

Lesley Logan
Yeah. So when we got this question, I was like, “Oh, I have to go in Tanya Dalton’s because it’s all about boundaries,” like boundaries, boundaries, boundaries. And and I don’t know, maybe that is the secret key to life. Probably is. (Brad: Yeah) How we, how, well Brad, why don’t you go first? How do you handle your family and holidays and boundaries?

Brad Crowell
Well, I I think that for me, it’s a little different. Because obviously they’re my family. It’s how I grew up. I’m very used to how they function and operate. But I probably have a better boundary creation when it, when I was around your family of like, hey, we’re going to you know, call it a night and we’re going to retire and go into our, the spare bedroom and we’re going to close the door. Right? That’s one way to set a boundary, the (Lesley: Yeah) door is closed and other one is being clear upfront with what you’re participating in and not participating in. If that’s like, if you know, because my family is like, when you’re there you are 100% in on every possible thing for every second you’re connected to them, you know, and that’s that’s just the way …

Lesley Logan
They do lunch (Brad: function breakfast, they do dinner and I … (Brad: everybody’s together) And so I think what’s interesting is like, you made the point, you know, you know your family because you grew up with them. (Brad: Yeah.) So first of all, if it is with your family, and you do know how they operate before you go, think about what is the normal things that happen in which things you want to participate in and then just let them know before you’re there, so it’s not this going back to Elle Russ it doesn’t have to be this like demand confrontational conversation, you always make me have lunch with you, I don’t want to do it could just say, “Hey, here’s what we’ll be participating in. And here’s what things we probably won’t be available for. I want to give you a heads up before you go grocery shopping.” (Brad: Yeah) Right.

Brad Crowell
Also too like, if you know that after dinner, you know, when everybody’s like, completely sloshed. And the conversation always becomes absurd or antagonistic or degrading, or whatever you are, you know, one thing that what some of our friends have done is they get themselves their own hotel room, they actually don’t stay home. And so you can simply say, “Hey, you know, at nine o’clock, we’re gonna go back to our hotel.” And that way, you’re completely separated from them. And you already know, okay, I all I have to do is survive that long. (Lesley: Yeah.) And I hope that that’s not your situation, but it very well maybe.

Lesley Logan
You can also love your family a ton and want to stay in a hotel room. (Brad: Surre) One of my dear friends, I’ll keep her name off of this, but but she does get now she lives near her family because she had a kid but she did get an Airbnb, and not stay with her in laws, or even her own family and, and they were like, a little uncomfortable about it the first year and she’s like, “Look, I love you, and I want to stay loving you and I want to be here for a whole week. If I have to live with you, I’m gonna be here for 24 hours.” (Brad: Right) So she’s like, “I just have things that I like to do. And I want to be able to do that.” And so you don’t have to it doesn’t have to be about them, it can actually be about you. For me, (Brad: Yeah) to have all the energy to keep up with this, this is what I need. And if people don’t respect that, that’s a different decision you have to make that is actually separate from this and maybe outside my paygrade. And where therapy should be in place.

Well, let’s talk about your you know, for example, you have a morning routine. You get up, you have for run, you sit with, you know, you read, you whatever you’re journaling sometimes …

I work out in your parents living room (Brad: working out) I take over at the …

Brad Crowell
But you know, and around our house, because I’m not an early riser, you’re not interrupted, generally speaking. But at my house my dad gets up at six. (Lesley: Oh, yeah, no, they’re, like, “Good morning.”) You know my mom gets up at 6:37, (Lesley: I’m like, good morning.) You know, so like, it definitely changes your morning routine, because of the other people in the house. And so it might be that you need to separate yourself so you can maintain your routine.

Lesley Logan
Well, and I don’t and so here’s the thing, like, I don’t invite them for a walk with me. It’s not because I don’t want to see them. (Brad: Right) It’s because that is my morning routine and that is my time. And then I can, I have breakfast with them, which is also normal. But I keep that. So I think it’s like, truly think of picture out past holidays. What you didn’t enjoy. And then what can you set the stage for this time, so that you can have the conversation in a non confrontational way, here’s what you can expect from me. I know you’re doing your holiday shopping, I just want you to plan ahead. And here’s, here’s what I won’t be participating in. (Brad: Yeah) Because we’ve got some things going on. Thank you so much. I can’t wait to see you, the end. You know, and if people are passive aggressive, that is a different story. And they always will be like you’re never going to there’s nothing you’re going to do that ever get. They’ll be passive aggressive, but something else. (Brad: Yes.) It’s not you. It’s them.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. And you know, the other thing is to like, maybe you don’t stay for a whole week, maybe only stay for four days, you know. So anyway, I think those are pretty actionable (Lesley: Yeah) tips there. Great question. Thank you so much for asking and …

Lesley Logan
Yeah. You can send questions into the @be_it_pod on Instagram. You can also send them in to the team, you can reply to our on our newsletters, whatever it is, we’ll find them, we’ll answer them. We love answering them. So thank you for that one.

Brad Crowell
Okay, now let’s talk about Tanya Dalton. With intent to allow her husband to stop traveling for work to be closer to their kids. Tanya Dalton grew her for fun side hustle business into a multi million dollar company replacing his income within the first year so he could come home and work with her. Since she since written multiple books, kicked off her own podcast, appeared as a featured guest on TV new shows, and has received awards for helping female executives and entrepreneurs step into purposeful leadership, so they can do less while achieving so much more.

Lesley Logan
I mean, you know, I was all about her. Like, I was like, yeah, no, she’s totally right for the show.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, I mean, I didn’t I didn’t include any actual specifics in there. But she has like a rockin company. And she, she loves she’s a coach. And she, you know, she’s a rock star.

Lesley Logan
She’s got two books. So get out there and read them put them in as part of your holiday travel, reading or listening on tape. It’s they’re so essential for preparing you for the next year. 100%. One thing that I love that she said she brought up the messy backpack experience. And like, you know, I’m a visual person. So she’s talking my brain was just thinking about a big person’s like to school, all these things. Do you ever if you ever like met those people who like you’re, you’re like, “Oh, I spilled on myself.” And they pull on Tide pen and you’re, “What the hell? Like they’re so prepared.” That’s Brad actually. And so many people are like a little ashamed of how messy the inside their purse or mess… a messy that set their backpack is. But actually, like, very rarely is anyone actually seeing what’s inside your bag.

Brad Crowell
Well, just so that there’s some kind of context, it’s not about an actual backpack. (Lesley: No.) We’re talking about the experiences of getting through life and like handling trauma and all the feelings and you know, good days, bad days, depressing days, exuberant days, basically, she was talking about, you know, just putting one step in front of the other, and doing life that way. And along the way, you will end up collecting, you know, all of these experiences, and you throw in your backpack, and she said, but it’s messy in there. So you don’t necessarily let people in the backpack. But when you’re, when you need an experience, when you when you need something, you have something to pull from. And that’s where Lesley’s talking about the purse. I think it’s hilarious that you could actually, you know, just just pull out a Tide pen, for example.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. Yeah. And that comes from it. And I think we’re so it’s so easy for to get ashamed that like how we got to something. And I think we we think that our way to achievement should be pretty imperfect and like something you like, it’s so beautiful. But most achievements are messy. Most roads to the to wherever you’re going have obstacles, you trip, you stumble, you get dirty, like (Brad: Totally.) you know, it’s just so funny when now that things like everything has been filmed. And like the truth is, and if I filmed everything that I did, most the time, you’d say my hair is not brushed, it’s not done up, I trip, I’m on many walks, like, you know, but all those experiences allow you to show up with so many tools in your backpack when you need them. (Brad: Yeah) So acknowledge that you actually have this backpack full of tools full of things you need. Because it’s all there for you, you eat. If you were listening to this, you have a backpack that is messy, you just might not be looking at it, because you’re avoiding it. But you have it and it’s there. And it’s there to help you. So I just love that she brought that up. I think it was really cool, easy for you to picture. And I hope people start like using their messy backpacks. Bring it with you. What do you love?

Brad Crowell
So she talked about this high five Fridays, and she said that her customer service team, actually she said our customer happiness team gathers together, the nice comments in the notes that they collected all week long. And they email them out to everybody on Friday, late afternoon. It’s the last email that they get before the end of the week. And it’s a it’s it’s basically just a reminder that they’re having a positive impact in people’s lives. Because I think that it’s easy to get lost in the weeds, it’s easy to get lost in the whirlwind, as we like to say. And you said, you know, that’s amazing, it creates a culture of celebrating, and then talking, talking about the wins, you know, channel that we use and stuff. And and Tanya said that celebrating is so cool. Because it does two things, it brings people in to the experience. It allows them to see well that they could have that experience that they want that experience. And the second thing it does is it furthers your own belief in yourself, which impacts other areas of your life of your life. Right. So when you have a win at work, and you’re like, “Wow, this is amazing. I helped my client, you know, stand taller today and she looks amazing because of it.” You know, when you acknowledge that and celebrate that, it will help you find more wins in your you know, when you go back home to your house. And there’s like you know, something there and you’re taking that energy, that excitement back to the rest other parts of your life.

Lesley Logan
I mean, you know, I feel about wins. I just think that I mean we have Fuck Yeah, Friday, I decided we need merch. We need FYF merch. (Brad: Oh) Because like what a (Brad: great) great thing to wear and really was FYF and you go it’s Fuck Yeah Friday. What’s that? What means you celebrate? At least celebrate on Fridays. And I just, I really think the more whether it’s a high five Friday, and FYF or, you know, a motivating Monday, it’s really important to establish some sort of time that you look at what is going well and the impact you’re having. Because it just makes it better. It makes it easier, it makes it easier for you to uphold your boundaries.

Brad Crowell
That’s exactly right. Anyway, I think that the the high five and FYFs all that stuff if you aren’t doing that in your life now. Just put it on your calendar. So like remind yourself at 4:30 on Friday afternoon, bing alarm goes off. And now it’s like, “Oh yeah, I need to find something to celebrate right now. That’s great in my life.” And to be honest, it could be very small. It doesn’t have to be this ma… like majestically huge, massive thing it could be you know, I got up when my alarm went off this morning. I didn’t, I didn’t hit snooze. (Lesley: That’s amazing.) Yeah. You know, I, this morning, I started my day with a very cold shower.

Lesley Logan
I did hear that I like heard sounds coming out of it.

Brad Crowell
It was like, I don’t know why I’ve been doing this now for like two weeks. But today’s shower seemed colder than every other shower I’ve had. I don’t know why. (Lesley: That definitely …) I was like took my breath away.

Lesley Logan
But I mean, but just to point out, it’s okay to have those wins that are like things that you are just getting done or just doing because you did something (Brad: Yeah) and you need to have that data, that data supports you in everything you want to do. So I’m into it.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. Well stick around. We’ll be right back.

All right. Finally, let’s talk about those BE IT action items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Tanya Dalton? I’m going to throw this one in real quick. She just kind of had it at the very end. It was kind of a comment less an action BE IT action on it. But I really thought it was powerful. She said if you can’t give yourself 15 minutes. That means you’re giving it to somebody else instead. (Lesley: Oh, yeah.) Okay. And you were talking about like, you know, the It must be nice for you, which we’ll we’re gonna get into, but must be nice that you can walk around the block for 15 minutes. Well, I’m sorry that you can’t take 15 minutes for yourself. But I need to go walk around the block.

Lesley Logan
Well, and also like, I’m not I’m sorry. It’s like, it’s a little bit like, I am sorry for you, actually.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. I’m sad. I’m petty. (Lesley: Yeah …) You don’t need to be condescending … you know.

Lesley Logan
No, but you don’t but like that. I mean, like, I mean, let’s just get into it. So I we got into this whole it must be nice convo. And I have we’ve had the episode before on the mental wellness, a wellness shaming, and when like you do go for a walk around the block or like you do do something nice. And some of them (Brad: sure) oh must be nice for you. You know, if you are someone who’s saying that, because it really you’re like, “Oh, it must be so nice for them.” Just say, “I’m so happy for you that you can do that.” (Brad: Yeah) Because when you say it must be nice for you. It does make the other person feel like it’s a passive aggressive, nasty comment.

Brad Crowell
Oh, yeah, it makes you look bad, (Lesley: Yeah) too that way.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. Yeah. And also …

Brad Crowell
… so nice for you. You know, (Lesley: Yeah) I don’t be around that.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. And the reality is, if you find yourself saying that to yourself about someone, you’re not even saying out loud, and come ask me, how nice for them. That is a sign that they’re doing something that you wish you were doing. (Brad: Yeah) So jealousy is not an awful thing if you use it as a flashlight or a magnifier around an area of your life that you want to improvement.

Brad Crowell
That’s true. Like, it must be nice for you. Maybe it’s it must be nice for them. And it’s something you’re thinking. Like, I wish that I could do that too. (Lesley: Yeah) Kind of the thing …

Lesley Logan
Yeah. If you’re thinking that then what boundaries do you need to put in place so that you can have those things to where …

Brad Crowell
Let’s talk about your big takeaway.

Lesley Logan
Yeah, so boundaries, boundaries, like I was just like, wow, like, this is like, we just got all on the boundaries. And I really did not expect that from her bringing her on, because she’s an amazing author of other things. But she does talk about it a lot. So …

Brad Crowell
Well, she’s a mom. (Lesley: Yeah) She’s a spouse. She’s a mom. She’s a business owner. She’s a homeowner.

Lesley Logan
And I think like when it’s really easy to think about when when you think about the boundaries in a business, you forget that your marriage is a business, you forget that your best friend is like, all relationships and itself are some sort of entity, whether they are for profit or not for profit. And so what is really important, and what I really think it distilled down to is like communication around your wants and needs. (Brad: Yeah.) And, and if you don’t know what boundaries need to be changed in your life, then you have to look at where you’re getting a little bit frustrated, just a little bit fru… like the first frustration of the day, the thing that takes you out of the wind moment and right in … what is that, because that’s about when you are resenting someone is because you are not upholding a boundary that needs to be there.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. Yeah, I think you should say that again. When you’re resenting someone.

Lesley Logan
When you’re resenting someone is because there is a boundary that’s not being upheld that needs to be there. (Brad: Yeah) It needs to be and we talked about this, the idea of like a school, and if the school is next to a busy road, and there is no fence and they tell the kids don’t go, don’t stay close to school (Brad: stay close, stay close.) What it does is create uneasiness because no one knows what stay close is it’s very vague. So you’ve got some kids who are like the total like perfectionist like okay, I’ll just touch the wall. I won’t leave the wall and (Brad: Right) then they’re not actually relaxing. (Brad: … next to the teacher) right, and then the teachers like, “Get away from me because like I need some time.” And then there’s this kids are like, “Well, I’m not I’m like I’m in between the school and the busy road. Hahaha. I’m so close because I’m close to the school.” And like … (Brad: That may or may not have been me.) It’s really Brad. And I’m totally we grow like squeezing the wall but next to the teacher like look at me, “I’m so close to the school.” And it’s like just no one knows how to behave and no one has interact. But when you put that boundaries are placed on the fence is put up, that everyone can play (Brad: Yeah) and take up space inside that fence. And that allows people to really understand what is allowed and what’s not allowed. And it’s so much more freer, like just picture just picturing that, like, sounds like freedom, and there’s still boundaries in place. So anyways, take a moment, and she talked about this being a thing that you can do, like, take a moment to assess inventory, of your boundaries, which ones like it, that’s kind of like, it’s kind of like what you do on the house, you would go and make sure that your fence is intact around the house, especially if you’re getting a puppy at Christmas, you’re gonna make sure that there’s no hole in the fence, right?

Brad Crowell
Yeah. If you don’t know what it means to have boundaries, then here’s …

Lesley Logan
Here’s the sign. You don’t have boundaries.

Brad Crowell
Well, you don’t have boundaries. And that’s but here’s a, here’s a really clear example. And this is what she did. And I thought it was really inspiring. She said, there are two types of availability that she sets for her business. One is business availability and the other is actual availability. Right. So there’s the differentiate, differentiating between the hours for business and the hours for availability. She said, when I’m working on my business, I’m generally uninterrupted and no one can get in touch with me that’s on purpose, when I’m available, when when I’m making myself available, that means I’m available for my team to talk to me, and I’m available for my clients. Right. And she actually said, what I do is I put in my my signature of all my emails, when I’m available to be contacted, and when I will be contacting them. Right. So whether that whatever that is, my availability is between 8 and 12. Let’s just say, right, and so for four hours a day, oh, wow, interesting. Because the other half of the day, she’s working on her business, and she’s uninterrupted and unavailable. And what I thought was amazing, was, she’s such a teacher. But she, she said, I created a, I created boundaries with my team, with my family, including my kids, and also with myself. And so with the team. That’s the business availability versus the, you know, working availability. Then with the end, the clients fit right into that with the family. She said, when my, she said she had a special phone, that would phone sound that would ring during certain hours of the day. And she trained her kids, this is amazing. She said, I had a magnet board and on the wall, and they had activities on them. And when my phone would ring, my kids would run over to the wall and grab an activity off the board and go entertain themselves so that I could trust that they were being safe and okay, but also I was uninterrupted for my client phone calls. (Lesley: Yeah.) How cool is that?

Lesley Logan
Oh, I mean, come on. Like, it’s amazing. And for the Mama’s listening, and like, please steal that from her because, (Brad: Yeah) because you’re like, I just I can’t I can’t be on a phone call. They need me. Well, if they’re an infant, probably, but if they are at all able to play with anything safely, you can allow them to go like this is when you get to play with this. And kids like boundaries. They really do. They really like they like to know what’s allowed and went and they like to play with that. So I just think everyone’s thriving. When you have boundaries. Everyone is.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, yeah. I mean, and she talks about that too. With what you both did, because you know, you work with your spouse’s, hi I’m Brad. The the she said the key the secret to a happy marriage is communication. And then you have this whole conversation about communication, which ultimately led ultimately led back to boundaries.

Lesley Logan
Boundaries. Set the boundaries. So y’all, what are your boundaries? We want to hear them. Tag the @be_it_pod with your takeaways, tag Tanya Dalton. Check out her books, and let us know how it goes. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell
And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
Thank you so much for joining us today. We are so grateful that you’re here. I can’t even believe it. I’m so so excited for what’s going on with podcasts and the guests we’re bringing on it’s all because of you. So again, share us, share with us how you’re gonna use these tips in your life by tagging the @be_it_pod. Send it to a friend, text it to a friend.

Brad Crowell
Yeah, don’t just send it to a friend. This specific episode send it to a mom. (Lesley: Oh) You don’t have to be a business owner. (Lesley: No) Because she talked about and I know we’ve we’re signing off but she talked about how homes, you the home is effectively a nonprofit business. (Lesley: Yeah.) Okay. So if you don’t see yourself as a business owner, but you have a family, probably you’re you’re you’re setting a operational plans of how you execute wife.

Lesley Logan
Let me just tell you that this gets us into a whole thing about how I think moms should be paid because they do keep the allow for the other person in the household who is working to have a job where they can go be uninterrupted and the household is fine. (Brad: Yeah) That’s a different topic for a different day. And I’m just gonna say I love that we’re changing this up because it’s like … It’s like at the end of the movie like, “Should I wait for the end of the credits?” Like you should be on the whole time till the very end.

Brad Crowell
Yeah. (Lesley: So …) If there’s one thing that you if you if you want to help us out, you share this podcast, (Lesley: Yeah) this podcast. Send it to another mom.

Lesley Logan
Yeah. Thank you so much.

Brad Crowell
Have an amazing day.

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Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

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Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

Lesley Logan
Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

Brad Crowell
And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.