More than One
Great Moment

Ep. 68 with Lesley & Brad

“Short term identities could be worth continuing to explore.”

Brad Crowell

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Show Notes

Back from the Pop-up Pilates tour and their 7,000 mile road trip, Brad and Lesley share highlights and insights from the adventure, plus the benefits of exploring short-term identities.

If you have any comments or questions about the Be It pod shoot us a message at [email protected]. Or leave a comment below!

And as always, if you’re enjoying the show please share it with someone who you think would enjoy it as well. It is your continued support that will help us continue to help others. Thank you so much! Never miss another show by subscribing at

In this episode you will learn about:

  • Life in the tour van
  • Celebrating wins
  • The sense of loss that leads to loss of identity
  • Giving permission to be something you aren’t good at yet
  • Exploration for your next purpose
  • Writing out your brilliant ideas

    Episode References/Links:


    Lesley Logan
    Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


    Lesley Logan

    Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap where my co-host in life Brad and I are going to dig into the permissive combo I had with Thor Challgren, in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that episode, feel free to pause us now. Go back and listen to that one and then come back and join us. Okay, well, this is our first time recording in the studio again.

    Brad Crowell 1:04
    Yeah, we’re back in Vegas. And yeah, right there. Yeah, we’re back in Vegas. Didn’t say yes. Yeah. Vega (Lesley: Yea, No…)

    Lesley Logan 1:19
    So we’ve been back for a bit. We actually got back late on well, not late. We actually made it in time for dinner on the fifth. But this is our first interview recap back in the studio. And so thank you all for following along on the tour. Brad wrote an update to our van up like, what do you call it?

    Brad Crowell 1:37
    Well, we’ve got two things. We’ve got the van build. (Lesley: Yeah.) And then we had the tour. I haven’t actually wrote a blog post about the tour itself. I have written are the third van build, a blog. And that’s on If you feel like reading along, yeah, it’s fun. It’s a

    Lesley Logan 1:58
    It’s all about how we’re building out the van and what we’re not going to do. We are gonna do. Yeah, we got done. So we stayed warm. It was really a lot of fun. The tour was actually a lot of fun. It was

    Brad Crowell 2:08
    We drove, are you ready for this? 7000 miles, (Lesley: 7,000) And 106 hours behind the wheel.

    And that’s also only if you use Google Maps from city to city. That doesn’t include the times we got lost, had to make a U-turn.

    Yeah. Drove around town because we were there for a day or three. Yeah, you know, so…

    Lesley Logan 2:28
    We definitely spent more time behind the wheel than I think. (Brad: Yeah, I mean, it was uhh) I also don’t think it counts the hour and a half extra traffic jam that we had to somehow avoid that I never saw in Florida.

    Brad Crowell 2:40
    Yeah, we’ll give you 108. (Lesley: Thank you) cuz definitely like DC, Richmond. Both of those were just like, the worst. And then. (Lesley: Oh my god. The trip from…) Yeah. Miami from Miami to

    Yeah, the trip from your parents to Wilmington, right. For hours, y’all the time never got less.

    Oh, it was the weirdest thing. It was like time stopped. And we’re like, we’re still driving, right? How come the How come Google Maps hasn’t changed our arrival. Like it still says one hour, 51 minutes, we’re gonna like ehhh.

    Lesley Logan 3:09
    I like used the time remaining to determine when I get to say I get to switch. So I like it take over and I’m like, Okay, I’m going to half that. And then I’m going to ask to switch over and it wasn’t changing. And I was like, this is pissing me off. Because Google is keeping me behind the wheel longer than I should be behind the wheel. I’m upset. But anyways.

    Brad Crowell 3:27
    We obviously shared the driving, there’s not a chance I could have done 106 hours by myself. (Lesley: Nor I) Generally, Lesley was driving in the morning and I drive in the evening. But anyway, if we got a chance to see you on the tour, just wanted to reiterate how amazing it was to see you in person. We love that the chances that we get to to reconnect with you in real life and you know, give each other hug that is one of our favorite things. Being on the road is something that Lesley and I are both very passionate about. Thanks for coming out.

    Lesley Logan 3:58
    Thank you for everyone. Oh my gosh, the time each time we were in at lead classes in Atlanta, Miami, Dallas, ahh it was just so fun. And you you really brightened the trip because

    Brad Crowell 4:11
    We would have added Philly to that list, but we didn’t actually have the class. So we still love you Philly as well.

    I’m just gonna be, here’s why. Y’all, I didn’t know it until the 18th. But somewhere along the drive, I contracted COVID and I was asymptomatic. So thanks to the vaccine and my booster. Like, my body was like, rocking it. And because somebody reached out and said that they test positive, we got tests, and I’m not even kidding. I’m gonna like paint the picture. We’ve now gone through like all these states, seen all these people.

    One third of the drive. We’re like 2600 miles into the drive right?

    We’re in Philly. We’ve been in his parents house for several days now. I was in a car with them for over an hour the night before, we were

    Plus in in the car with me for a week

    Lesley Logan 4:56
    For a week. And so then I was like, Oh, we got it. No worries. We’ll Just get tested because that’s what you do. Like, it’s not a big deal, we’ll just go get tested. And I was sitting there looking at this test and I and I was like watching it. And I’m not even kidding when the line went on that, like I was positive. I was like, oh my god, this is worse than like watching a pregnancy test. (brad laughs) And of couse and like also in that moment, I just felt like the weight of this like the world because, and maybe anyone who’s tested positive, like, every single person we saw I unknowingly exposed to this virus right before the holidays. (Brad: Right.) And so we had to sit there and text, everybody. We’re talking people with elderly parents, we’re talking our pregnant assistant like I, and luckily it had by the time I found out we had been many days since then. So they literally test and get back to us and, and tell us that they were officially negative. And that was every single negative.

    Brad Crowell 5:50
    At least there was that? Yeah, it was that but it affected our Christmas plans. My grandparents are older, you know, all the things.

    Lesley Logan 5:57
    And also, I had exposed everybody. So now everybody’s on their new isolation time. So I had to mask up. So we canceled, Philly. We canceled this pop up we were gonna do in New York for business. That was private, a little event. And luckily, it happened at the beginning. And I was asymptomatic. And no one got COVID from from me. So

    Brad Crowell 6:16
    Yeah (Lesley: We stayed that way) and technically three days before Christmas, you text you tested negative two days in a row. So you know, I mean, there’s we still could have been around the fam, but just out of an abundance of caution. We didn’t.

    Lesley Logan 6:29
    Yeah, so at any rate, Philly, next time.

    Brad Crowell 6:32
    Yeah, we’ll be back. Don’t worry. I live there. So.

    Lesley Logan 6:35
    He’s lives there. But anyways, I just say that because if you’ve tested positive during this time, it I really did feel like I like, like I let people down. And I, I felt like this morality issue. And I just want to say like, if you do all the best that you all the things, you follow all the rules, and you still get it. Like, just like give yourself a break. And like, I focus on what I could do, what I could do is I worked on our flashcards I put a mask on when I was around the family and like, you know, I drink lots of water, and I just gave myself so much permission to sleep. I was like, I should sleep more.

    Brad Crowell 7:07
    Yeah, you slept a lot that week. I did. And so even though I mean, you know, you you had a relatively mild case. And that was, you know, fortunate. I mean, I know that you’re, you know, vaccinated and boosted. So I think that it’s something to do with it. You know, but, you know, it was a shock, because you weren’t like showing any signs. So that was very, very strange.

    Lesley Logan 7:30
    Yeah. So anyways, Philly, you will have us back, we know it, and then to just to those of you give yours, like focus on the possibilities. And that’s what I did do. And it got me through those few days of like being locked in a dungeon. But it wasn’t really a dungeon.

    Brad Crowell 7:42
    And we lucked out in that. We were about two days before the rush to buy all the COVID tests. Lesley: yeah!) So we were able to buy half dozen tests and like keep them on reserve for the rest of the tour. So we were showing up at those places we could confidently say, we literally just tested before we got out of the car, you know, we’re good to go. And that way we could, you know, see people and keep other things. So (Lesley: It was great.) So anyway, wow, that was a, I’m telling you it was such an incredible experience to like I’ve never done a road trip quite like that. 7000 miles, and we’ve

    Lesley Logan 8:17
    It was our longest longest road trip. That was for sure.

    Brad Crowell 8:20
    Yeah, we went from Vegas up along. I 80. Across the, you know, the states to Philly and then from Philly down to Miami. And then from Miami, up through Dallas and then Albuquerque back to Vegas.

    Lesley Logan 8:35
    Yeah, that Panhandle takes a frickin long time.

    Brad Crowell 8:38
    Yeah, we were in Florida forever. It’s what it felt like,

    Lesley Logan 8:40
    I was like, California is bigger. Why is this taking longer? (Brad: right) Anyways? Okay, really, really quickly. We are. If you’re listening to this, when it comes out the days and ability to sign up for agency mini are running out.

    Brad Crowell 8:54
    Limited, very limited. We are going to be starting. This should be

    Lesley Logan 8:58
    We start, we start on January 23. And January 22 is the last day to sign up if there is space.

    Brad Crowell 9:04
    Right. So that means there’s five more days.

    Lesley Logan 9:06
    Yeah, so

    Brad Crowell 9:08
    Oh, wait, hold on. Just kidding. There are two more days, two more days.

    Lesley Logan 9:11
    Haha. So that’s it. That’s it two more days. So it this is the only time will last time we’ll do it until the fall of 2022. And that just means you’d be postponing your goals for a year. I don’t know why’d you do that. And on the 30th I am hosting a free webinar that is gonna be really exciting. It’s for anyone who’s running a business, especially our Pilates folks out there. I really want to help you see how you can actually have your dream schedule, and then also how you can actually make that happen. And we’ll be talking about our scheduling tool. So you’ll go to Okay, well, I mean, let’s get into it. But yeah, I think we I think the audience question was what was your favorite part of the tour trip? I feel like…

    Brad Crowell 9:56
    We covered that.

    We covered it. So thanks for the question. (Brad: Thanks for the question.)

    Send your questions into the Be It pod on Instagram. Or, your bold moments, we do want to shout out (brad: Yeah) your bold moments. So

    If you if you had something where you’re celebrating a win, and it was a Be It, you know moment for you. We want to hear about it. Share it to us on the on Instagram. Yeah. (Lesley: Okay.) Let’s move on, let’s talk about Thor Challgren. Okay Thor, like a lot of you. And that’s very intentional. Alright, YouTube could see what Lesley’s holding up there. If you if you’re listening, sorry, you’re gonna have to go over to YouTube. Okay, Thor, like a lot of you. And I say you, because this is not applicable to Lesley or me, knows what it’s like to have your identity taken away, when your kids leave for college. (Lesley: Yeah) sorry, we’re doing we don’t have that. But if your kids left for college and your whole life, you’ve been a parent. And then all sudden, they’re they’re out of the house. And you know, you got the empty ness thing happening or anything associated with that, then I’m sure you can connect with Thor on this. As a recovering girl, strip Girl Scout troop leader, to a now certified life coach, and podcast host of Your Turn To Fly. Thor helps individuals discover their passion for the next season of their life and give themselves permission to change.

    Lesley Logan 11:25
    Yeah, I know, we don’t have kids, we don’t understand empty nest. Although, you know, sometimes I wonder if the dogs aren’t here if then I’m like it’s so nice.

    Brad Crowell 11:35
    Well, look, I mean, you know, he talks a lot about the idea of loss, and, and his experience of his oldest daughter going to college, creating a sense of loss for him. And that’s, you know, I, because I can’t directly relate, but I have a feeling we’re gonna experience a sense of loss if and when one of the dogs you know, moves on. (Lesley: Yeah.) So you know, it’s definitely relatable.

    Someday Gaia will actually be the age we think she is. So I know,

    I know her birthday. Now. She’s I know how old she is today, finally.

    Lesley Logan 12:10
    All right, well, anyways, I want to talk about something I loved. He said he talked about, he had a lot of things that were just really great. It’s kind of hard for me to pick just one thing. But I really loved the giving yourself permission to be something you aren’t good at yet. And I say that I love this because a that’s why the podcast was even born. But b, this isn’t I’ve had to do a lot like throughout growing our companies, to even being a pod this be this podcast host. Like I really had to give myself permission to like, just do the best that I could. And like, even to the point like, you know, constructive criticism was coming in. I was like, not right now. I’m really focusing on permission that I’m actually good at this and I could do it. Give me let me get some reps under my belt. And then I’ll take the feedback. But I think that a lot of times, we get stuck on being in the beginning. And we get frustrated with ourselves and what we’re are not able to do yet because we’re not good at it yet, that we don’t even get to the point to even being it. And I just love the idea of permission like I’m giving myself permission to do the thing to be the thing that I am not actually good at yet. So it couldn’t be more Be It Till You See It.

    Brad Crowell 13:19
    I really liked I thought I thought it was incredibly powerful when Thor said “I have to I had to give myself permission to be greater than a father.”

    Lesley Logan 13:38
    I was that not the most powerful thing?

    Brad Crowell 13:40
    Yeah, and that was very counterintuitive is the wrong word. But I think countercultural maybe. (Lesley: yeah) you know, like we like the epitome of success is being a parent and that’s the way that it’s being defined that you know, when you’re a parent, it’s the greatest thing you can do, all that kind of stuff. And I think that our association with that concept is exactly why when his daughter went to college, he experienced a sense of loss. Because if that’s the best and greatest and the only thing that he can do with his life is be a stay at home dad. What happens when he’s not anymore? Right?

    Lesley Logan 14:19
    Right. Well, and that’s like so when Thor and I were talking you’ll have to excuse August just really going out his neck right there with his foot. But when we when Thor and I were talking when he said that to me, I was like “you have to be on the podcast”, like period like end of story because I work with so many moms and and I know that as a non mom saying like “you actually have to come first”. “You actually have to focus on the things that you find that fill your cup up too.” Because not only are you an like you’re a role model for your children, right? But also like at some point they are going to grow up and leave the nest and then what? Right and then what are you doing? So giving yourself that permission is just so key. And I just really loved how he, I loved how he went through it. And he figured this out. And now he’s on this mission to help others.

    Brad Crowell 15:08
    Yeah, I mean, he talked about like, well, I got, you know, easily 30 years left in my life. So is the best, quote, unquote, best moment of my life, like, gonna be in the past? (Lesley: Right) You know, what is that? What does that mean? And, and I think, I think what’s really difficult, too, when looking at this is, you know, we’ve, we’ve all seen movies where, like, you know, there’s a character in the movie, who’s, you know, greatest moment in life was when they were the quarterback in high school, and now they’re, like, 40, and they’re still talking about that. And it’s like, the, that was like, the culmination of success for them. And like, you know, as viewers, we go, yeah, that’s a bummer that that’s, that’s all that guy like, that’s, that’s he’s stuck in that moment. And I think the thing that’s difficult is we do exactly the same thing with parenting. Right? You know, yeah.

    Lesley Logan 16:02
    Oh, that well, and that’s, and like, you just say, like, the culture is like, this is a greatest thing you’ll ever do. Is every, the greatest you’ll ever do is be a parent and, and as a non parent, I think it’s important to want to be a parent and do the best that you can, because those are little humans, that are going to be adults someday. But I also think like, your children seeing that you’re doing things that fill your cup first, that take care of you, that you aspire to be, it gives them permission to do a lot more. It just really does. I saw something on Instagram today, where someone shared a story about how like, their niece and nieces were like, Oh, it’s so cool that you have this job. I am not able to do that, because I’m gonna grow up to be a mom. And she took her aside and was like, “Hey, let me just tell you, that you actually can be both things.” (Brad: Right.) And, and so I just, I really enjoyed Thor’s like, mission of sharing this, because this that, that, yes, it is so important that if you are a parent that you are like loving all that and doing the things. But that is not all you are, and it can and you can have it you can be the greatest parent and then have another great chapter and another great chapter after that, like we don’t just have one great moment in our lives.

    Brad Crowell 17:14
    Well, I think that rolls right into my, (Lesley: yeah) you know, one of the action items that I thought was really awesome, was his thought on what comes next after you’ve, you know, reached the culmination of that self identity. Right. And he talked about the idea of short term identities and mini purposes. You know, because he was like, “Well, yeah, I used to introduce myself, as, you know, oh, yeah, I’m a stay at home dad, you know, I’m full time taking care of the girls.” And he said, “Well, it was really hard for me to introduce myself, because I didn’t know how I didn’t know what to say I didn’t know who I was.” And he said, so until I began, like, today, Thor works with people who are in the same position as him, right? And he’s a life coach. But before that, before he had that, to, and was able to say that, he decided, “I’m going to learn how to cook. And I’m going to introduce myself as a gourmet chef.” And he said, I didn’t, I didn’t plan to have a career in being a chef, you know, as a chef, but I wanted a new identity. And I know, I knew that it wasn’t going to be a forever identity. So I thought, Alright, I’m going to give myself permission to be, you know, to create a short term identity. I thought that was really clever. I thought it was in a good way to help like, reorient and dive into some new things, explore some things.

    It also takes the pressure off of finding like the next thing.

    Yes, yeah, that’s actually huge.

    Lesley Logan 18:47
    And so he could be a mini purpose as opposed to like, finding my next great adventure and like yeah,

    Brad Crowell 18:55
    All right, now that I’ve sent all the kids off to college, I’m going to found a country what, what’s next?

    Lesley Logan 19:01
    And I think for so many, like, I think we can also just bringing this back to like, the world we live in now. You know, in 20. In March 2020, a lot of people’s identity shifted. Like a lot of people (Brad:Yes) either had to switch careers, or they went from teaching in a studio to teaching online or they went from having a job to not having a job or they went from being a parent whose kids went to school to being a homeschooling parent. (Brad: Yep) So a lot of identity shifting happen there. And I think like having that like having permission to have these identity, like short term identities or mini purposes is like a fun way to dabble in what’s next, without having to go well, this is it. This is it.

    Brad Crowell 19:38
    Yeah, yeah, that’s true. You know, if you treat it as a short term thing, then you don’t have to worry about this like, like this life altering decision. That’s like, “oh, shoot. Well, I guess I’m,” I mean, it’d be like, just imagine, you got to decide if you want to move to another country. Ya know or something like that or like, you know, we were you know that that is like, oh my god, there’s like real huge, crazy ramifications. I’d literally be getting rid all my stuff moving. I’d be figuring all that out. Well, we don’t I think that we take that kind of a huge decision. And we apply that to everyday things we do in life. Yeah. And that is obviously overkill. Like it doesn’t need to be this momentous decision that we’re making, it could be. “I’m going to try this for a month” and make it you know, just test it out and figure out if I’m in, you know, and if you love it, hey, this is cool. It’s something worth continuing to explore. If you hate it, no big deal.

    Lesley Logan 20:43
    Yeah, you can change your mind everyone, like I like this. We could keep talking about this short because I have so much to say like, it was like when I was dating before I met you, I was like, I am not going to date the type. I always dated him at a date different types of like, think of it like straight jeans and bootcut jeans and low rise jeans and high rise jeans and boyfriend jeans. And like, I was just thinking like, everyone has a type of jean they feel like they fit into but like maybe you should try other jeans. And like once you found those skinny jeans, I found those skinny jeans and they’re skinny in their mind, but I love them. So you win. But I also tried those on I didn’t like “Oh, I’m gonna date Brad,” like we took a long time. So enjoy short term identities play with it you have many purposes. I think that’s going to give so many people a lot of permission, which is what he’s all about. So okay, well, yeah.

    Brad Crowell 21:31
    All right. Well, let’s talk about the be it action items that you discuss with Thor. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items, can we take away from your convo. And I know we already talked about giving yourself permission. And specifically about being, quote on quote, greater than a father. And that’s a hard thing to embrace. Because of the way we you know, the story we tell ourselves around that. But what I thought was super complimentary. And he kind of said it as like a side note was, “be willing to uncover the places where you might not yet be willing to believe that you can be greater than a father,” you know, or, or greater than a parent, whatever.

    Lesley Logan 22:19
    It’s when he was like talking about the questions he asks himself, right. Like, he’s like, he’s like, Well, like, why don’t I think this is true? Who doesn’t think that instead of like, not, he doesn’t do as an I? He did, like, who doesn’t think I can do this? (Brad:Yeah) Like, yeah, so I be and he went, he’s, like, willing to go to those places and uncover what it is that you’re not willing to believe. Because it’s an exploration, it can really help you give yourself that permission.

    Brad Crowell 22:41
    Yeah. And I loved his his idea of like, writing out like, what is the worst that could happen? You know, if, you know, and then he left a line, you know, if blank, you know, did or didn’t happen, or whatever, you know, the worst that could happen is I think is the way he phrased it. Yeah, so you know, that there’s a lot of inflection in this conversation, like, analyzing of oneself.

    Lesley Logan 23:06
    Yeah. And like, just to go like with that all of you are like, Oh, what’s the worst that could happen? Like, our friend Lisa Brooks, who we should definitely have on the pod? (Brad: Totally.) She follows that up with and then what? (Brad: And then what?) And then what’s going to add that in here? Because until we have our own like, and then what? Like, so if the worst case scenario happens, and then what? Yeah, I really I really liked I also just liked his, his a executable, a suggestion for us all, which is grab pen and paper and just write out the vision. I think a lot of us think put it off to like, “oh, oh, it’s a great idea. I’ll think about I’ll do that next time. Or I’ll do that later. Or that’s indicative of time.” And I shared a personal story about one of the things that we did, and actually, as this episode is out, I already did the first weekend with our members and like, it’s just really incredible. So what I challenge you to do, and I really did love that he challenged you to do this is like, taking that messy action. Grabbing a piece of paper and just writing down this brilliant idea that you have and if nothing else, it’s out of your brain and it’s somewhere you can go back to when and if you have the time. But I think a lot of people don’t think that they’re creative and a lot of people don’t think they have ideas but you do you have them all the time you just bury them away, you shove them off or you say, “I’ll think about that later, I don’t have time to think about that.” But just write it down or, or voice text it to yourself.

    Brad Crowell 24:22
    Yeah. And the reason that he enjoyed writing it down. And this this I thought was the powerful piece of it. Take five minutes and get started was effectively what he’s saying. And why? Because he found that it changes the energy that you have around the thing, right? Because again, we treat these things as these massive, crazy things that “oh my god is gonna take a whole year for me to put this thing together,” you know, or do this thing or this idea or whatever. And he said if you just take five minutes you start writing things out around it. You may find that suddenly it doesn’t seem as intimidating. It’s not quite as massive of a project as you imagined it was. You know, this, like fear of getting started. You can like, you know, get over that hurdle in five minutes by just grabbing a pen and paper and beginning to write it down and starting to do it. (Lesley: Yeah.) So I thought that was amazing. Because, you know, definitely I love the idea of writing it down. But why? Why? Because it can help take that fear away. That fear of getting started, it can help you kind of like suddenly sort through the big mountain that we’re making it.

    Yeah, agreed. He’s great. I just really enjoy him. He’s just got a love for life and love for people. And yeah, I hope you all take him up on his freebie. It is in the show notes.

    And he’s a hell of a voice. I was very soothing.

    Lesley Logan 25:51
    I know. I know. I, I, by the way, it’s L E S L E Y. So spell it right. Get on it. Okay. I am Lesley Logan.

    Brad Crowell 26:02
    And I’m Brad Crowell.

    Lesley Logan 26:03
    Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you going to use these tips in your life we want to know. Tag us, and also Thor, on Instagram with your takeaways. And just know that every time you do that, it’s like a little touch. You know, it’s like a little love note to us. And we just it makes us go oh, this is why we’re doing this. But also it allows me to like personally, thank you. And I’m gonna thank you right now, but I’ll thank you in a DM because I really, we really are so freakin grateful. (Brad: Yeah) for you. Yeah, this podcast is just like so growing and thriving because of your downloads every time you listen, it actually makes a most amazing difference. So thank you so much. Please leave a review over at Apple with how much you love us. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

    Brad Crowell 26:44
    Bye for now.

    Lesley Logan
    That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

    Lesley Logan
    ‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘As The Crows Fly Media’.

    Brad Crowell
    It’s written, produced, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell. Our Associate Producer is Amanda Frattarelli.

    Lesley Logan
    Kevin Perez at Disenyo handles all of our audio editing.

    Brad Crowell
    Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

    Lesley Logan
    Special thanks to our designer Jaira Mandal for creating all of our visuals (which you can’t see because this is a podcast) and our digital producer, Jay Pedroso for editing all video each week so you can.

    Brad Crowell
    And to Angelina Herico for transcribing each of our episodes so you can find them on our website. And, finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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