The Truth About Enneagram
in Trauma Recovery

Ep. 370 Tracy O’Malley

“Enneagram helps you accelerate understanding of yourself with compassion.”

Tracey O’Malley

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Tracy O’Malley is a highly sought after Master Performance Coach for companies like Google, Amazon + John Deere, a Top Enneagram Expert, Multi-Millionaire Entrepreneur and a Mom to two incredible Millennials. She has helped millions all over the globe; individuals, couples, families, leadership teams, fortune 100 Executives and CEOs step into the leaders they were always designed to be and create an effective and beautiful culture not only in their Professional Teams, but also their Home Teams. She teaches both professionals and individuals how to integrate the Enneagram in every area of life, guiding people to think and perform differently, uncover and change habits that no longer serve them, plus shift their relationship with money and intimacy by identifying where they are blocked and rewire those limiting beliefs.

Show Notes

Step into the life of Tracy O’Malley, a renowned coach and speaker, as she recounts her transformative journey with the Enneagram to break generational cycles of trauma. From her initial skepticism during rehab to becoming a leading voice in the Enneagram community, Tracy explores how this path not only reshaped her career but also clarity to her interactions with her children. Discover her motivations and her passion for teaching the Enneagram to assist others in gaining self-awareness and personal growth. Tune in to learn how the Enneagram can be a powerful tool for understanding and change.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • Tracy’s childhood trauma and the decision to seek change.
  • The Enneagram personality typing system and its benefits.
  • The Enneagram’s impact on her relationships with her children.
  • Her motivation and passion for teaching the Enneagram worldwide.
  • Tracy’s authenticity and growth as a confident speaker on stage.

Episode References/Links:


Tracy O’Malley: I mean, Google, Amazon, YouTube, Facebook, John Deere have all brought me in to teach them this language because when we understand each other, we understand everything. And when we understand each other, we build credibility and trust, and we build a culture that’s bulletproof. And that wins. So I was like, who knew that the girl who showed up in rehab and told her therapist to fuck off when she said, I want you to do the Enneagram, is now teaching it to millions of people all over the world.



Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan
All right, Be It babe, just get ready. Get ready, I had so much I wanted to say I don’t want to end this interview. And then also, I want to make sure I have time to talk with her after the interview before my next one. Because she is just a force in the all the best ways. She is fierce and lovely and empathetic. And frickin just wants you to win. And I love this podcast for a few reasons. One, I get to support you on your journey, and your life and being it till you see it. And recognizing you’re so freakin awesome. And two, I get to meet epic, epic people. Mostly epic women who I, I would be like touched to just to like get to hug them in real life some day. So Tracy O’Malley, she’s so amazing. This episode takes you on a journey of her life, and also how she was able to utilize what was going on in her life to not just benefit those around her. But now to benefit so many others. And what she’s doing today to help others is nothing sort of amazing and truly going to change your life and those around you. This is just going to be so fun. I can’t wait for you to listen to it. So here I’m just going to let Tracy tell who she is in just a moment. But save this one. Really listen to it. You’ll pick up different things as you listen to it and the things you have in common with her, the things that’s inspiring about her, the things that open the doors and also the things that she might call you out on in the best way, way that someone who can only see the true honest you can. So here she is Tracy O’Malley.

Lesley Logan 1:11
All right, Be It babe. I’m really excited. I was introduced to this incredible woman you’re gonna hear about today, because of one of your favorites, which is Jake Kelfer and we are on a Zoom call. It’s kind of like how have we not met yet we have so many friends that know each other and we know each other’s friends. And so it’s just gonna be a really amazing conversation. Tracy O’Malley, thank you for being here. Can you tell everyone who you are and what you rock at?

Tracy O’Malley 3:02
Oh my gosh, hi, I love, I loved our conversation before. And same thing, I love when I meet people who who keep saying you got to meet this person, you got to meet this person. And then we actually meet it’s like, there it is. I’m Tracy O’Malley. What I’m really good at is seeing through people’s soul, quite honestly. I can kind of see through a lot of the masks that we wear with such love and compassion. So that we can step into who we were always designed to be and make sense of all of this crap that you know life has thrown at us honestly.

Lesley Logan 3:33
Yeah. And it’s interesting talk about like masks we wear because we all kind of like people might seem call it a different hat. But really like, the different ways we show up. And what we’re trying to show and what we’re trying not to show. You might scare some people that you can see through.

Tracy O’Malley 3:49
I do. You know, it’s funny, like if you meet me, and I get this because, and I never take it personal when people are like, oof, you’re very activating. Because I, had I met me 15 years ago, I would have been lined up, hightailed the fuck away from me for sure. Because a lot of us come by these masks very innocently and for survival and when somebody can kind of see through the armor that can be very, very scary. So either people are really magnetized to me because wow, they feel seen. Or they’re like, holy shit, I need to get away from you because they feel really seen. And depending on where you’re at in your journey, that’s kind of how this will play out for you.

Lesley Logan 4:32
Yeah, I like picturing different moments I’ve met people similar to you. And you’re and I can recall, like, if you’re not ready for that. You’re like, oh, I need to be a spar with that person. It’s so funny because the couple of times that’s happened, I’ve also then re-engaged with them later down the road and going how did I not let them be my best friend and it’s because I wasn’t ready for it yet. You know, I wasn’t ready to be fully seen yet. So can we talk about 15 years ago? Like when did this journey start for you? Because if you, obviously, this a skill set you had, you didn’t always know you had it. So how did this kind of come about?

Tracy O’Malley 5:05
Well, ironically, you know what’s funny about that is, is I always knew I had it. I didn’t know what to do with it. And you know, as a little girl, I grew up in a pretty traumatizing home, alcoholism and Jekyll and Hyde kind of shit going on, and unpredictability and violence and, and emotional abandonment. And this little girl in me kind of trying to navigate what all of this meant. And early on, I was always seeking like, how the hell did we get here? And how the hell do I get out of here? And, you know, I always had to kind of read situations. It is one of my spiritual gifts, as well as being able to read situations and people and energies, mainly because I had to kind of gauge the situation I was growing up in, but it’s also kind of one of my gifts. But like taking you back 15 years ago, is kind of when it was all coming to a head I had almost I was about 40 years old at that point. And a lot of those skill sets had served me well. I had been married and divorced at that time, through a recession, raising teenagers, and on paper, and all the receipts showed that all that those coping mechanisms worked out really well for me, you know, on paper, I was solid, knock me down, I’ll get back up kicking and screaming. But I felt this internal struggle. And also I could see some of that effect on my kids. Even though you know, to the world, they were the greatest kids and they were and they are, but I could feel their restless irritability, discontentment, fear, and all of that. And, and I knew I needed new tools in the toolbox. These spiritual gifts that I had were great, but they were for survival, not necessarily to thrive. And it all came to a head when my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and was dead within 12 days, like seriously from diagnosis to death in 12 days. And yeah, he’s the most impactful person in my life, the most dysfunctional person and also, the person I loved more than anyone. And for him to go from that, to that that fast. I was like, holy shit, life is really short. And, I don’t necessarily know a different way. And so the people that went before me and my family, I love them dearly but, what they were teaching me, modeling for me, all of that was not going to take me where I wanted to go with my family and my lineage moving forward. So I made the decision that all these coping mechanisms, although provided survival for me, I was not going to thrive or pass it on to my next generation. So I decided to check myself into rehab. For all my coping mechanisms, not just the obvious ones that were a problem. You know, there was alcohol, there was food, there was anger, there was power, there was sex, everything but drugs basically I’ve used to cope.

Lesley Logan 7:57
My big joke around my household is like, we clearly were the kids who had that “This is your brain on drugs,” because like most people that are friends of mine, alcohol is a definite one and those other ones you listed, but no one’s doing the drugs because we’re told, so I guess it’s like (inaudible).

Tracy O’Malley 8:12
So God forbid you do a drug like, but you know, you could be drinking tequila shots off people and you know, doing some reckless shit. And I did and I came by a lot of it super innocently and I didn’t want that anymore for my life. And if you don’t repair it, you repeat it, or it gets repeated or both. And that was happening. And I did not want my kids to fast forward 25 years to feel like I felt and the only way that wasn’t going to happen is if I went fucking first. And so I broke the mold. Like everybody in my circle, my family and my friends are like what are you doing? You’re not bad. We’re way worse than you. I’m like, Well, that’s the fucking problem is like, I’m surrounding myself with people that don’t challenge me to level up. And although, yeah, I didn’t have a physical addiction to alcohol. I wasn’t like an everyday drinker. But when I did, I was so unpredictable, that that creates an environment that I grew up in and I had migraines and ulcers in the second grade. I don’t want that for the people that I love. And so it was in rehab. I walked in, and my therapist who’s tough and she’s from Texas, and I still see her to this day, you know, over 12 years later and you know, I’ve been through nine therapists at this point and I could manipulate anybody you know, I know how to talk, I know how to, I know how to do it. And it was the way that I did that prior in my life was to kind of test them to see if they could handle me. I didn’t manipulate to manipulate like a narcissist might but I manipulated to test them to see if they really were what they said they were. And all the nine therapists before her, I could, like they ended up in a codependent bond with me. And I was like, okay, this is a little fucked up. But with her, I think I was also ready. I was like, listen, I need you to help me fix some shit. And she’s like, well, your robust ego, first of all. I’m like, oh, here we go. Okay. And it was in day two, she wanted me to take the Enneagram thing, which is how the Enneagram came into play for me. And I basically said, go fuck yourself, I don’t need another label. I’m walking in here with plenty. I don’t need another thing to make this complicated. And she wasn’t even rattled by my very colorful, intense language and intense energy. She did not even miss a beat. She’s like, my dear, I get it. But your best thinking has gotten you here. And this might help you get out of the box that not only you’ve put yourself in, but the world has also put you in. So how about you just open up your mind a little bit? And give it a shot? Touché.

Lesley Logan 10:54
I love her. I love her so much.

Tracy O’Malley 10:55
I know. Yeah, she like and that’s the thing with that intensity where, when we were talking about before, where it can be very activating for people, I used to get off on that, it was like, see, I’m the strongest person in the room. Whereas now when I activate somebody, it’s like, I know, it’s for their greatest good if they choose to receive it that way. And she provided that for me. Like she wasn’t even rattled by that. And so I trusted her. I trusted her to take me on a journey. And you know, she did quite one hell of a journey for sure.

Lesley Logan 11:26
So she, how did she take the Enneagram test? But you guys, we’ve had, we’ve talked about it before. It’s been a while. It’s been a couple of years. But for people who don’t know, what is the Enneagram? And why do you think that she had you do it so early on in your journey?

Tracy O’Malley 11:39
I hate the what is the Enneagram question because it’s like, it’s so stupid, but like I get it. It basically is this mappings, the way that I describe it is this beautiful navigation system that explains how you are divinely wired in your motives and your core fears that if you kind of sift through all the masks and the hats and the bullshit, at the root of who you are, there’s this really distinct perspective, motive and fear in which you see the world. And why think she had me take it. And by the way, all those online assessments are wrong. The first one that I took was wrong as well. So just little asterisk there. The reason I think that she had me tackle this so early, and I’m so grateful she did and honestly, I don’t even know if I’m still sober to this day without this beautiful system and framework that kind of, you know, because my robust ego can think that I can handle this and I know better and all this shit. And the Enneagram kind of is this navigation that keeps me in my lane. When I want to go off roading or fly off a cliff or go rogue kind of guides me back into who I was always divinely meant to be before life kind of life to me in the face a little bit. And so when you understand and that, you know, and I was tackling this at the age of 40, 40 years old, that’s a lot of shit to unpack. And I think that’s why a lot of people start the personal development journey. And then like, fuck this, I’m out. It’s too hard, too much to unpack. It’s too overwhelming. It’s kind of like when you’re spring cleaning and you start it and you’re like I just opened a can of worms. I only wanted one worm to pop out. And now the whole fucking can’s open.

Lesley Logan 13:18
Yeah, yeah, I totally understand.

Tracy O’Malley 13:20
Right, like, so I think when we embark on this journey, like, that’s how this feels. And it’s like, nope, let’s just spackle this all back together and move on. And the Enneagram kind of helps you streamline and accelerate that understanding of yourself with compassion. When I understood at the core of everything that I did was a motive of being strong and powerful. That helped me reverse engineer and connect a lot more dots a lot faster, which, in turn, creates transformation. You can see movement in this growth because even in therapy, I love therapy, but it’s fucking slow. It’s really, really slow and I don’t move slow. And so I think she also recognize that like, alright, lady, I’m here, let’s make shit happen. I’m not staying more than 30 days. So you got 30 days to make something happen. And I was able to move the needle faster with this understanding, with this beautiful navigation of myself and a willingness to really use it the way that it was always intended. We’re more than just a number we’re more than just our type that’s just kind of our home base and we go but there’s all these other levers and directions we can take and detours we can take when the main road that we normally take isn’t the right one to take. Right? And it provided me that very, very quickly. And then the next aha was oh shit. I have two children that have a totally different navigation system than me. And I’ve been trying to take them down all my roads all this time and no matter how well intended I was and how beautiful of a mom I am and it was never landing the way that would serve them best.

Lesley Logan 15:06
That’s so interesting. So like, first of all, I want to just highlight like, I love that you’re saying you’re more than just a number because all Enneagram people say, what’s your number? And I was like, it’s kind of like, what’s your sign? And even like astrologist would say, okay.

Tracy O’Malley 15:17
And I love that too.

Lesley Logan 15:18
Yeah. And it’s like, it’s not just your sign, because like, you also have a moon sign, a sun sign, we have a whole chart, a nd like, where the moon, like, everything is changing all the time. So the Enneagram makes me feel like a birth chart. And if you want, if you got astrology, guys, it’s kind of like that. And there’s these areas that you can tap into. And so what you’re basically saying is, you are navigating their life through the way that works best for you. But because of their Enneagram and their needs, that’s not going to work for them, that’s not going to be their strength, it’s not going to be their motivation, it’s not going to be their way to tap into things. And so basically, it’s like, if you’re trying if you’re an Aquarius guys, you’re trying to make your Cancer, like, here, read your brain. That’s not gonna work.

Tracy O’Malley 15:58
Exactly. Exactly. And low key. I was judging them for not being motivated like me and low key, I was like, I’m not, like I was frustrated with them, and low key I was like,oh, my god, I’m failing them. And, you know, about day two, when I understood myself sitting in rehab, understanding and reading this, and then realizing that there’s eight other languages and other different navigation systems. And I was hightailing it to figure out where my kids fell in this, so that I could serve them better. Not necessarily to put them in a box or label them or say, you’re this, and you’re that, but like, how can I create a win win, where they trust me, they know that they are seen, heard, understood and valued for who they were divinely made to be? And how can I speak to them in a way that builds credibility and trust and empower them to move forward. And when I got home, you know, I didn’t come home and say, Oh, my God, the Enneagram I never talked about the Enneagram for the next five fucking years. But I was using it as a navigation system, every conversation I had with my kids., and then out in business and beyond, I was trying to ask questions that would help me kind of pinpoint where they fell in this beautiful framework, so that I could speak to them in a way that served them. And within days of coming home, and really being more curious and intentional with the way that I spoke, the the temperature and the culture in my home changed immediately. And they were teenagers at the time. And if you’ve ever been around teenagers, that’s not an easy task, especially with the track record I had, you know, I was kind of an authoritarian in my house is very good and tactical, and they didn’t have to worry about certain things. But it was like my way or the frickin highway, a lot of time. And that tone shifted, because of my understanding of this and speaking to them in a way that served them better. And when that happened, I could see that like, they started coming to me with everything, instead of the teenager. sneaky shit. They’re like, Mom, this stuff’s happening. We’re scared. We don’t know what to do. And because of me, knowing where they fell, the way they were motivated, the way that they feared, the way that they perceived the world, I could speak to it and not try to convince them to see it my way. And in turn, here’s the beauty of this whole fucking thing is they taught me more about myself, because of my willingness to see through their lens too.

Lesley Logan 18:27
Yeah, it’s so beautiful. Oh, and I, what I’m also loving is that, like, you took this skill set that you had this gift of like seeing people and using that to navigate the world to survive. And the way you shifted, it was to use it to thrive. So everyone’s thriving now, not just you. And I think that also is really cool. Like, the way I’m kind of now more intrigued about Enneagram. What you’re saying is like, it’s actually not so much about your number, it’s actually more about the other people on the wheel and where they land. And so because if you can, if you can support that, if you know what their fear, way of fearing is or the know what their motivation is, you can support that journey. And if you support them, it’ll, like you just said, it’ll give back to you.

Tracy O’Malley 19:12
100% and, you know, I’m raising two types that are very different than me and different from each other. And they both, their strengths and the way they’re motivated. They are the two areas of my life that I probably needed the most growth in and so they are my greatest teachers to this day. And because of that, I bring something to the table that they absolutely need and they’re more willing to lean into it. So we are like this beautiful, polarizing team, the three of us, you know, they’re they’re 26 and 27 now, and you know, they’re my favorite people in the world and I am theirs and we’re all very, very different but like when you have three very different polarizing motives, fears, the way that they see the world when you understand each other, you’re bulletproof, but when you don’t, that’s when it’s like fucking Fight Club, which it was, you know, back 15 years ago when I was starting this because it was just like trying to make each other see things in ways that we didn’t understand. And it was like this power struggle rather than this, like, this is who we are. Let’s leverage this to make this beautiful for us all.

Lesley Logan 20:24
Yeah. (Inaudible) So fascinating, because like, you could be going, no, this is the way you need to see it. And the way you’re doing that is activating the fear in them. So they’re not even willing. And also, especially with teenagers, and just kids in general, most people don’t know how to articulate what they’re feeling. They don’t how to articulate what they’re feeling is fear. So like, then you’re just like, you’re not making sense that you don’t even like what I’m saying. So I think this, okay. This is really, really, really cool. So you come home and you start to you use it, you said you didn’t even talk about it for five years. When did it transition from you utilizing it support your life to you like doing this as something that you put out into the world?

Tracy O’Malley 21:02
Yeah, so it got crazy. So you know, when I went into rehab, I walked away from the career that I had, which was 15 years in the car industry, very masculine energy, you know, which my intense robust ego worked very well in that industry. I was great at what I did, and I fucking hated every second of it. You know, it was very soul sucking, very cutthroat, which I like, but just not integrity filled. And when I walked into rehab, I also walked away from my career. So when I got out, I was like, okay, I’m 40 now, what do I want to be when I grow up, and I accidentally fell into a network marketing company. And now female-dominated. And I was like, I don’t know how to do this. I don’t know how to be soft in all of that. But I better fucking learn. And thank God, I was armed with the Enneagram because I was like, okay, let’s test this thing. Let’s test this thing. So I started every conversation and in order to build and I was very successful, within two years, I took that business from zero to a million-dollar income and on paper I was very least likely to do that. But with this understanding in this beautiful navigation system, every question like, how do I lead everyone, right? And the best statistic about that business was not the millions of dollars that I made, it was helping other people make millions of dollars that were different than me. So in that organization, there’s like 100,000, salespeople now, and seven of them have gone on to make millions of dollars. They’re represented by six different Enneagram types, and not one of them is an eight like me. That’s my favorite statistic of all, is the ability to lead everyone. So you know, I started using it, started using it and because of the growth people were asking me, and I was speaking on stages in front of 20,000 people like how are you doing this? You’re lit single mom that went to rehab with no social network? How did you make this happen? And I’m like, I leveraged every single person, I made every single person in front of me a leader. And how did I do that? Because I spoke to who they are, not who I wanted them to be. And I was using this tool the whole time, nobody knew it. Part of me really liked having the secret weapon nobody knew about. But part of me is like, I just got good at it, I was using my divine gifts. And the Enneagram provided me a language to put to it and a system that I already had. But then 2017 happened and I got really sick. And I got sidelined. And around the same time. And I had already kind of felt this pull that I knew there was something bigger that I was supposed to be doing. And that little girl in me, when I was like, I knew that I would be doing something like this. But my robust ego also really liked making millions of dollars a year doing something very easy. That came very easy to me, I wasn’t going to stop that. And so like there was this divine intervention, and this forced sabbatical with my health, that forced me to kind of get still, again, which I don’t necessarily love. I get it. But I don’t love it. And it was during this time that the Enneagram became trendy. And it pissed me off. Because I’ve been using it at this point for six years, five, six years. And it became the cutesy thing and I was fucking angry about it. I was like, you guys are missing the beauty and the power of this tool. So I didn’t hop on it because it was trendy. I hopped on it because I was mad about it. Because I was like, that’s totally anything too, don’t do things just because it’s cool. It’s like, no, you guys are doing it wrong. And I’m about to disrupt what you guys believe about this. And then I came out of the Enneagram closet and reveal like how I built that business and made leaders was understanding this framework and knowing where people fell in it with out assessments without test without me even saying what’s your fucking Enneagram type? I got so good at where are you motivated? And then if I felt like I got it, I would know because hello, we could make shit happen, right? And so when it became trendy, I was like, okay, I’m gonna show you guys actually how to use this thing, because you’re just, you’re learning about your type, but you’re missing the mark if you don’t know all the things that are connected to you, like you said earlier, like me learning about the other types is actually beneficial because my aid tool, which is my main source is usually not the right tool for the job. So I better know how to use the other dynamics that are connected to me in order to be the best version of myself. And so people were like, Oh, my God, you’ve been using this this whole time. I’m like, yeah, let me show you how. And so people started bringing me into masterminds and group coaching programs. And, you know, big Fortune 500 companies are now having me on retainer as their executive coach using this language. Right? It’s a (inaudible) language. I know. I mean, Google, Amazon, YouTube, Facebook, John Deere, have all brought me in to teach them this language. Because when we understand each other, we understand everything. And when we understand each other, we build credibility and trust, and we build a culture that’s bulletproof. And that wins. So I was like, Who knew that the girl who showed up in rehab and told her therapist to fuck off when she said, I want you to do the Enneagram is now teaching it to millions of people all over the world.

Lesley Logan 26:39
I mean, it’s crazy. It’s also amazing. It’s also it’s like, it definitely is like ‘what we resist is there to assist’ kind of a thing. You know, I’ve definitely, okay, but hold on. So you went from like, being in car sales and then in network marketing, and then to speaking in front of people? Are you a natural speaker? Did you like speaking in front of people? How do you prepare for that?

Tracy O’Malley 27:00
You know, it’s so funny, because I get a lot of people who want to be speakers and like, the best speakers are the ones who never wanted to be a speaker. Honestly, like, it was never about that. For me, I’m great at it. I mean, I’m not polished at all. Like, I’m not like, specially trained, but I can move a room and I can make an impact. In fact, I was the girl in college that would vomit. Before my communications class. In high school, I was really good in music and things like in sports. But if they wanted me to do like a solo, like, I’m like, I’m out. I don’t want to be this. I like to fly under the radar. I like to be stealthy. And so when they started putting me on stages, I was like, this was never my calling. But I know that the impact I’m here to make is really important. And I’m going to get over my myself. Even as a little girl, when I was reading maps, like I grew up reading maps, for a reason. I always wanted to understand how we got here, and how do we get from here to there. And the fact that, you know, if you take my my whole life, and connect all the dots, they all mattered, and they all can, lays a trail for somebody else. And I still, like speaking I’m good at it. But it’s not my favorite thing to do. It’s not my greatest work. I’d much rather be in the trench with somebody. I’d much rather like, okay, like, let me impact you so you can go impact millions, right? I like to be more of this invisible, like 911 call, which I am to a lot of people. Like when hell’s breaking loose, like my phone’s ringing. And nobody knows about it. And I love that, like, that’s my favorite work to do. But bringing the voice to something like this. And something like a story like mine, I think is really important to kind of make that impact. And because I’m not polished and because I’m real. I think we need more of that. So, I’ll continue to do it.

Lesley Logan 29:05
I completely agree. I think it’s really true. I think it’s really easy for people to see a polished speaker and go oh my gosh, they like, first of all, you’ll hear a polished speaker tell a story similar to yours and go and you will forget how bad it was because just this polished thing and then you put yourself like that’s, that’s where I have to be. And it’s like actually, like they had coaches, they had help. But also, people nowadays are more likely to want the realness and Chelsea Peitz, she’s been on the podcast. She’s a social media coach. And she actually said that there’s, I forget the law, you guys, it’s on her Instagram account, but like, there was like some sort of like, law of physics, but law does a different title, which is like, people are more likely to trust you if they if they already liked you. And then they see you make a mistake and they see you keep going. They’re actually more likely to trust you. So in her example, it’s like, you know, screwing up, you know, in your reel or having a misspeak and then correcting that in a podcast or speeche is actually more valuable to building trust than if you say it perfectly right every single time.

Tracy O’Malley 30:05
That’s one of the things that I love about your podcast, too. Like the be it till you see it. You just, I knew as a little girl this is what I was gonna be doing. It was never what I wanted. But I was like, okay, and you know, when I knew that I would be speaking and nobody was there. Nobody knew who the hell I was. But I knew that this calling was on my life. And sometimes when the calling is calling, and you’re gonna get called out to get called up and, and all the things I was like, alright, well, I’m just going to speak as though I’ve been speaking to arenas. And I never have a signature keynote. I’m not saying not knocking anybody that does. But the reason I get asked back a lot is because you’re gonna get something different every time and you never know what it’s going to be. And I think people really appreciate that, because that’s fucking life. Life on life’s terms is really, really hard. And a pretty polished signature keynote isn’t going to create transformation. It might make somebody cry, it might make somebody buy some shit. But I am here to accelerate transformation and really disrupt somebody’s life so that they can step into who they were always designed to be. And I wish somebody had done that for me. And so, you know, when I get asked why I do what I do, it’s like, I would have died for me back 23 years ago, when I really started diving in and understanding that the biology of who I am, the biography that I came from, the behaviors that didn’t serve me anymore, and this backstory really were gonna matter for something. It was like, all right, bring it. Let’s, let’s see what’s going to happen here. And it’s still like, it’s uncomfortable sometimes. But I know that I never remember anything that I say either. Ever.

Lesley Logan 31:52
Yeah, I understand that. Especially because like, I also get like, a vulnerability hangover. Where am I after like, did I say the wrong thing? Did I say too much? You know what I mean? And it’s like, well, what did I say? I don’t even remember. So I’ll have to just wait till it comes out. And I go was it too much? I don’t know. To trust, it’s right for that person. You know, I want to, for the person listening, it was like, okay, hold on, hold on, now. You, and it’s like a be it till you see it story for you. How did you go from like, throwing up a communications class before you spoke in front of the room to like actually talking from arenas. Do have a mantra? Do you have a practice? Like, how did you get yourself to feel comfortable up there? Or do you still not?

Tracy O’Malley 32:30
I’m very comfortable up there. Because it’s never about me, right? I think humility, sobriety, my commitment to do the work every day. You know, one of the things that I learned and I carry with me every day, that, you know, I’m not like every day is a new clean slate. And what I have is a daily reprieve that’s contingent on the maintenance of my spiritual condition, the maintenance of it, and every day, like that comes first. And so that humility of like, I know that my life is going to turn out beautiful, as long as I don’t make it all about me, right? That I’m going to be safe. Yes, I’m going to get uncomfortable. But when we kind of approach, everything we do, it’s like, who can I serve today, and not from a codependent like giving to get kind of way like, I’m here to be a vessel of change for him, and I will be beautifully, abundantly rewarded by that. The minute I stopped making it about me, this got a lot easier. There is no mantras because, and that’s when when I do remember what I say, on a stage or on a podcast. It’s because I made it about me, because it was like scripted, bullet pointed all the things but when I’m like, Who am I going to serve today? I know that if I impact the one person in the room that needs to hear this, they’re gonna go out and make a difference in this world. And my job is done. Like it’s amazing. It’s amazing. And so just remembering that this is for the greatest good, and I will get mine. And it may not look the way that I want. But there isn’t necessarily a mantra but humble, humble, humble, humble, humble, and doing my own work every day. It was funny. I’ve never branded myself, believe it or not. It’s amazing that I’ve have this amazing business that I’ve had over the last decade because I’ve never done I’m so messy. There is no, nothing Lesley, have I ever done that is planned. I’ve never launched. I’ve never had any kind of marketing, nothing. It’s all been pure instincts and intuition for me. And although that has served me very well and served the people really well. I also recognize that I’m not making the impact I’m making. I’m not making the impact I want to make because there’s this visibility kind of breakdown in like people hear about me. In fact, you, you probably heard about me from our friend Jake. And then you went to my social and you’re like, this doesn’t, like,I hear how great she is. but this shit sucks. Facts. I mean, not saying that you said that.

Lesley Logan 35:11
I didn’t say that. But I was like, wow, Jake, she’s not very, like, I just, you don’t say enough about you? That’s true.

Tracy O’Malley 35:19
Bingo. Bingo. So I have hired a creative director who I fucking love. She’s amazing. And we’re excavating a lot of my story. And it’s like, the vulnerability that comes with that, and like, I’m terrified of it and equally, really excited because it’s bringing this whole collection of 52 years of my life. And why I was born to do this and why I was born to help other people kind of navigate the hard things in their life and why I’m the person to do that. It’s very, very confronting for me. And also like, it feels like a big warm hug. And it feels like that little girl that was reading maps all by herself, trying to figure this shit out on her own, is all of a sudden saying, yay, all of this is going to help people in a way that we’ve always wanted. It’s so cool. It’s so cool.

Lesley Logan 36:13
It’s so cool. And I love that you bring up I mean, like the be it till you see it came from like, peopl always asking me like, how are you so confident? Like, how do you get all these things done? And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I’m, like, scared all the time. Like, I’m constantly like, like, wondering, like, Is this, are we doing the right thing? Is this the right thing? But I always take the end in mind, and I work backwards. And then I act like the person, I do the things that that end would get me now. And that’s where this came from. And I will always attribute it to Amy Cuddy, because she actually is the person who formulated that sentence for me in her TED Talk, like, she doesn’t know me, and, you know, shout at anyone who knows Amy, we’re trying to get a hold of her. But, it’s interesting thing, like, we, it’s tempting to put everything in a box from our childhood ago that was traumatic, that caused me to be like this, instead of actually going, okay, if it wasn’t like that, I wouldn’t be this person, I wouldn’t have these tools, skill sets, and I wouldn’t have had to do the things I’ve had to do to become the person I am. And also, there’s a, there’s a part of you in there that like was already doing these things in your own little way. And it’s a strength you’ve had for much longer than you give yourself credit for. So I think it’s just really, really cool. Like, I could talk to you forever, I see it really good. But we’re gonna take a brief break and find how people can work with you.

Lesley Logan 37:25
Alright, Tracy, so one of the things I love is that you’re not all about just figuring out the number, you truly want to help people understand how to utilize this tool in their life. So they can literally make the impact they want to make. So can you tell everyone how they can work with you and find you?

Tracy O’Malley 37:39
So there’s a few different ways. I have a podcast that has over 400 episodes. So if you’re like curious about this, before you go down the rabbit hole of all the other shit that’s out there, just go listen to my podcast. I talk about leadership, you know, because I think this is all coming from this legendary leadership, this legend that you are created to be, right? And how we lead ourselves will impact how we can go out in the world and lead in our homes and out in the professional world as well. And so a lot of my teachings using the Enneagram is self leadership and then leading beyond you. You can go to to start with the Enneagram. I always say it’s a great starting point especially if you’ve been through anything in your life and you feel like you’re all over the place. You’re throwing a bunch of crap up at the wall hoping something sticks like my Enneagram assessment’s over 95% accurate. Start there because then it kind of sifts through and you’ll know, okay, this is what motivates me. This is the fear this is my blind spot. Like I at least I know that and you can meet yourself with more compassion instead of the whipping shame stick. So go there. We have a code for your audience. If you go to and you get the assessment and use the code, be it, you’ll get a beautiful little special discount.

Lesley Logan 39:01
We love that. We love that, guys. I, this is, I think this is, first of all, 400 episodes. I’m gonna start binging on all of that just so I can learn more. And I think it’s just really a gift that you’ve given everyone the amount of effort and work you’ve put out there. I hope more people get to hear about you because it’s going to change their lives. So, B-E-I-T guys. We’ll put the link in the show notes.

Tracy O’Malley 39:27
Yeah, you know, I also go in I work with a lot of teams as well because what usually happens is once you kind of drink the Enneagram Kool-Aid, you can also do like a 90-minute deep dive. So it’s kind of like, it’s one thing to have the ticket, the Enneagram and understanding and having the right information. Hello, that’s the cookie right there like having that, awesome. But I’m like somebody’s like great. Now what do I do with this? I’m the girl who buys the fast pass everywhere I go. I need skipping lines like tell me what this means. And bring me to the front of the line. Like you can dive deep with me for 90 minutes. It’s like 10 years of therapy, life frickin changing. So not only do you have the right information, I kind of tell you what to do with this in your life personally and professionally. So then what happens usually is once that happens, usually I get brought into a couple situations, or partners, or business partners, or besties, or parent-child situations, family situations, masterminds, groups, companies, like people are seeing the profound understanding that this can have like when you understand the profound effect it can have in cohesiveness and culture, personally and professionally, that they want everybody to do it. And I am the master facilitator for that. So if you have teams or organizations bring me in, it’s like, I’m way more than the Enneagram y’all like, that’s just the tool that I use. I have, you know, 23 years of really diving deep into a lot of modalities to really help you make sense of yourself and those that you love and lead.

Lesley Logan 41:05
So cool. I have already, like, my mind’s already thinking, my husband’s gonna listen to this. And I’m like, maybe you know, have someone interpret.

Tracy O’Malley 41:13
We can do a topical session podcast episode. I can do, like, therapy.

Lesley Logan 41:16
Well, because you’re, you know, like, we have the Strength Finders 2.0, which is always very helpful. Like, we use it for our team. But it’s like, it’s kind of like what you do and not the how to do it. Yeah, so like, the Enneagram is very much like on how you do things like the why behind the, the why, sorry, the why is more important because we work together. And so if someone’s like, why are you doing it like that? And other times he’s like, why are you getting so upset? I’m like, I think it’s because I’m a seven and you’re a four, three or whatever.

Tracy O’Malley 41:42
Oh yea, like, seriously, my relationship that I’m in, my romantic relationship, there’s no way it survives without my understanding and understanding how to integrate that because I would have probably throat punched him, you know, years ago, because he would have been so triggering to me when he’s under stress, like under, but understanding that even when it feels personal, like it’s not. And this is the beauty of that is like, yeah, this doesn’t feel good. And like, I don’t like your behaviors right now. But I understand it isn’t, it isn’t about me. And how can I serve you and be a better partner for you? And yeah, I had good friends of mine, clients, they had me come do their team, right? They did like a team retreat. And then they have a podcast as well and they’re sex therapist, like, and then I did like a couple session on air with them. It was so much fun. Oh, and every once in a while I get calls. They’re like, okay, he’s acting like this, what does this mean?

Lesley Logan 42:39
You have to have, you have to have like a Voxer membership, where people can just pay you like, hey, Tracy, hold on. Before I let you go, bold, executable, intrinsic, targeted steps people can take to be it till they see it. What do you have for us?

Tracy O’Malley 42:52
So I think that, you know, we hear like, awareness is everything. Yeah, that’s the first part. But most of us go from awareness to like, how do I fix this? How do I make this stop? Right? Especially in the times we live in, we go from this awareness to action, awareness to action, and we skip this really fucking important part of called acknowledgement, right? And this is where we connect the dots. And the Enneagram can help you connect them faster. So that’s why I love this tool so much. But also really diving into biography not to stay stuck, you know, I used to be somebody like I’m not looking back, I’m not going that way. But we really have to be able to reverse engineer, how we got here, and where even some of the behaviors that you and I have had that worked out, okay, for us, weren’t necessarily coming from the healthiest of places, they were more for survival. And, yes, that’s fine. But that’s not sustainable or fulfilling, and you’ll burn out. Right? So taking the time in this understanding your biography, doing some timeline work, I really, strongly encourage people, whenever I’m working with my private VIP clients, I send them a journal. And I say, divide it into three sections. And I want you to take at least a minimum of a five-minute walk every day. And with no technology, no multitasking, no podcast, I don’t want you listening to anything, I want you to sit at the couch, lace up your shoes and invite the child inside of you for a conversation. And that’s kind of where my journey started to unpack my timeline. And so as you start walking, and inviting, it’s just like any relationship, you have to be consistent and committed to it. And even doing some of this inner child work, which is really fucking important, you guys, really important. You have to be consistent with it. So in this journal, I have them divided into three different categories and the first section is like zero to seven. The second section is eight to like 13 and the second or the third section is 14 and up and any kind of thoughts, feelings, memories and emotions that come up, even the littlest things, put in one of those sections, and start building this timeline of understanding this is how you’re kind of going back and rerouting and seeing how you took this route, how you took this route, how you took this route, and where some of those patterns that serve you really well came from dysfunctional places, and how you can flip the script because those things are your superpowers, but they can also be the kryptonite in your life as well. And it’s just a matter of understanding the come from and that we can switch the come from when we can meet ourselves with compassion. And when we understand that compassion comes when we understand that, at the root of everything that we’re doing is a beautiful, beautiful child that is running scared. And we can (inaudible) that part of who we are, that’s when we can shift this. And those things that maybe are the kryptonite in your life can become the superpowers. Like,the kryptonite in my life has always been my intensity. Like seriously, I can blow up my life on a dime, I could blow up a situation. And like be it be very, very disruptive. That intensity hasn’t gone anywhere. I can still blow some shit up. But now it’s coming from a place of love, compassion, empathy, service, grace, rather than fear, insecurity, unworthiness, shame, guilt, and ego. So get a journal, do the three, take a walk five minutes a day, invite that child in. One of the things that I do every morning is I do the walk. And I invite you know, whatever you believe in, I believe in a god that’s bigger than me, good orderly direction, whatever that means to you. And I say any thoughts, feelings, memories, emotions that need to come up that I need to address, and reconcile or embrace so that I can step into the calling that you have on my life. I’m available for it, even if it’s uncomfortable, and even if it’s exciting, right? So that honestly, I know it sounds a little woo. But I’m telling you this, this is an action item that most people, they say I’ve done the inner work, check. I’ve done my inner child work. You don’t fucking stop it. It’s until you’re dead, you guys. Yeah, it’s until you’re dead. Because as you build this and create a safe place for your inner child to come out and play, guess what he or she’s got a lot more to say. And if you’re like me and have five decades under your life, she’s been stuffing shit for a long, long time. So the safer that I have created an environment for her to speak freely, and let her freak flag fly. She’s got all sorts of shit she’s wanting to say. And the more confident she gets in speaking it the more I don’t sabotage my own shit in my life today.

Lesley Logan 47:41
Oh my gosh, Tracy, like I could listen to you forever. Thank goodness, you have four episodes? To do. But I, I feel like we barely scratched the surface.

Tracy O’Malley 47:51
We barely did.

Lesley Logan 47:51
Yeah, well, I know we’ll be having you back. But also, I just know that every single person listening to this, the thing that’s keeping them from being it till they see it is the inner work that they maybe think they’ve done or thought they did or have been avoiding doing. And I love all the things you’ve offered us. You guys, go listen to the podcast, go take a look at that blueprint and also like work with you because it will change your life and you can start to see people you know, just like not even as powerful as Enneagram but when I read the four tendencies, and I was like, hold on. Okay, so Brad’s probably a rebel. I’m an upholder. That’s an interesting combination as a couple, here we go. But then I sort of see different people and like, like some people, like this person is so annoying, and like they’re a questioner, and it is annoying. And they will get in their own way, because they’ll just keep asking, but you know, once you can start to like pinpoint things. And so I feel like having the Enneagram being a guiding light as a compass is gonna make your life so much easier with the people around you, the people you’re trying to support. Every single person this episode I know is trying to change people’s lives. And whether it’s five people or 5 million people like you have to understand how to serve them. And so Tracy, you’re just amazing. Thank you for your gifts and thank you for sharing with us. I can’t wait to hear how people are going to use these tips in your life. Make sure you tag Tracy, tag the Be It Pod. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us and others BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of The Bloom Podcast Network. If you want to leave us a message or a question that we might read on another episode, you can text us at +1-310-905-5534 or send a DM on Instagram @be_it_pod.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is transcribed, produced and edited by the epic team at

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music and our branding by designer and artist Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all of our content to our website. And finally to Meridith Root for keeping us all on point and on time.

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