Key Conversations Before

Establishing a Partnership

Ep. 275 with Lesley & Brad

“A good partner should push for growth and also keep one on track.”

Brad Crowell

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Show Notes

Explore why engaging in difficult conversations is a pivotal element for sustaining successful business partnerships. Lesley Logan and Brad Crowell share valuable insights and personal experiences, highlighting the importance of clear communication, commitment, and dealing with partnership red flags in today’s recap episode.

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In this episode you will learn about:

  • The importance of scheduling lunch breaks to ensure work-life balance
  • How to leverage your strengths to propel your business forward.
  • Why clear communication is key to a thriving business partnership.
  • Learn how to redefine your brand by presenting your authentic self online.
  • Why it’s crucial to check back in with your actual goals regularly.

Episode References/Links:


Lesley Logan [00:00:00]: It’s all communication. This is why I keep saying it’s a partnership and your business is like a marriage. You have to do the exact same thing before you marry someone. These are the exact same things you have to do. But I think so many people are afraid of looking dumb or like they know what they’re doing, or they get caught up in the excitement of what the business could be. And it’s like, you got to sit down and just go, okay, down and dirty. Like, how deep am I going to get into this? How deep are we both getting into this before, like, we go, this isn’t working.


Lesley Logan
Welcome to the Be It Till You See It podcast where we talk about taking messy action, knowing that perfect is boring. I’m Lesley Logan, Pilates instructor and fitness business coach. I’ve trained thousands of people around the world and the number one thing I see stopping people from achieving anything is self doubt. My friends, action brings clarity and it’s the antidote to fear. Each week, my guests will bring Bold, Executable, Intrinsic and Targeted steps that you can use to put yourself first and Be It Till You See It. It’s a practice, not a perfect. Let’s get started.


Lesley Logan [00:01:12]:

Welcome back to the Be It Till You See It interview recap, where my co-host in life, Brad, and I are going to dig into the captivating convo I had with Kristen Crowley and Jill Bunny in our last episode. If you haven’t yet listened to that interview, feel free to go back now and listen, or listen to this one and then listen to that one. You can go in any order you want. (Brad Crowell: You can.) You really can. It is your own adventure and we want to support that, but they’re pretty bunch badass bitches, so you should listen to it. Today is October twelveth at the time that you’re listening to this. We are in the midst of our retreat this year, so we are in Cambodia. We should be out at the temples today, like, living our best life up, (Brad: Loving it.) which is so exciting.

Lesley Logan [00:01:51]:

And that also means today is World Arthritis and World Sight Day, both important things you should know about. So, first of all, arthritis is real, so go get yourself checked out and do the things you can do to avoid the heck out of them, like getting stronger. And the World Sight Day, I didn’t actually look up what that means, but make sure it’s seeing well. Like, do I need to go to the eye doctor today? Is that what it’s telling me to do?

Brad Crowell [00:02:17]:

World Sight Day.

Lesley Logan [00:02:18]:

You want to know something funny?

Brad Crowell [00:02:22]:

Observed every year. What’s funny?

Lesley Logan [00:02:23]:

Well, I got lasix when I was 30 and everyone said, that’s so dumb because at 40, you’re going to need to have reading glasses. And I want to let you know right now, you guys, I’m 40 and I do not need reading glasses. So, go Lasix.

Brad Crowell [00:02:37]:

That’s true. It is a day first initiated by Lions Club International Foundation during their site first campaign in an effort to spread awareness about preventable blindness and help people who are visually impaired.

Lesley Logan [00:02:49]:

Oh, well, then go to schedule your doctor’s appointment to prevent blindness. I think that’s genius. I didn’t know that. That’s great. Wonderful. Gaia, we think is probably blind. She did she did bark at a bolster. It’s okay.

Brad Crowell [00:03:06]:

She just sat up. She can hear just fine.

Lesley Logan [00:03:09]:

She can hear just fine. It’s believing. Here we go. So, yes, we are in Cambodia next year. We will be back here in Cambodia in October. So you’ll want to be on the waitlist to make sure you get to sign up and get the Early Bird special. So you’ll want to go to to enjoy what’s coming up in January. So in January, we’ll open up the doors, but you want to be on the waitlist to hear about those doors.

Lesley Logan [00:03:34]:

Then I come back. I go to Chicago with Erika Quest to do a weekend of workshops at Club Pilates and St. Charles. St. George. St. Charles Street, I think.

Lesley Logan [00:03:47]:

Anyways, we’re going to be in Chicago at a Club Pilates teaching some workshops. If you want to see if there’s any spots left, DM me, because there’s not a lot of spots ever. So you’ll want to DM me to get that information. In December, Erika Quest and I will be back at a Club Pilates in Frisco, Texas. And then I come back, and then we pack up the van, and Brad takes me on a tour that he keeps threatening is not going to ever end. And I keep threatening to say, but I have a girl’s date, so you got to get me back here in time for my New Year’s Eve.

Brad Crowell [00:04:16]:

But we’ll be back in Frisco, Texas.

Lesley Logan [00:04:18]:

We’ll be back in Frisco, Texas, right after we’ve done this before. Frisco. You always bring it. And so (Brad: So fun.) We can’t wait to celebrate the end of the year with you, as well as the beginning of the end of the year with you. So if you want to hear about the tour, make sure you get on our email list. Just in general

Brad Crowell [00:04:34]:

Go to

Lesley Logan [00:04:37]:

Yeah and you’ll hear all about the tour. (Brad: Oh, yeah) because it’s epic, and there’s, like, really cool things that are happening you wouldn’t want to miss out on, because you’ll miss out on those epic things. And then in January, I do kick off eLevate round four. And if there’s any spots left, you are going to want to apply, because 2025 will be the next time that I run it, and that’s a long ways away in my world. So go to That’ll get you on the waitlist. But if you actually want to get in on 2024, DM me and I will chat with you. We’ll see if this is the right thing for you.

Lesley Logan [00:05:11]:

We are so, so excited. Some people, like I said last episode, call it a game changer. And those people would be eLevate members, multiple of them. They told me it’s game changing. And I’m like, yeah, eLevate. Game changing. Love the tagline.

Brad Crowell [00:05:24]:

Love it.

Lesley Logan [00:05:25]:

Before we talk about Jill Bunny and Kristen Crowley. I just want Jill Bunny’s name. I’m just going to be really honest. I want it. (Brad: It’s a name.) I want to know. I have so many questions about that.

Brad Crowell [00:05:36]:

If it was like she nicknamed herself.

Lesley Logan [00:05:38]:

But I don’t think I don’t. I don’t think so. Especially after my brother sat there and read every baseball player name off to us. And I was like, really? Someone named their kid that oil win something.

Brad Crowell [00:05:52]:

Anyways, what if she had a brother named Jack?

Lesley Logan [00:05:56]:

Jack Bunny and Jill bunny.

Brad Crowell [00:05:58]:


Lesley Logan [00:05:59]:

Well, like, just Jack and Jill.

Brad Crowell [00:06:01]:

Well, Jack Rabbit bunny.

Lesley Logan [00:06:04]:

Oh, I see. I was thinking of Jack and Jill. I wasn’t thinking of Jack Rabbit.

Brad Crowell [00:06:07]:

I like the Jack and Jill, too.

Lesley Logan [00:06:08]:

Because also it makes me think of those houses where they have a bathroom in between, two bedrooms for siblings to share, but the sink is always too low.

Brad Crowell [00:06:17]:

I’m sure she’s heard that before.

Lesley Logan [00:06:19]:

I’m sure she heard all of this. I’m sure she’s like, can we get to talking about me? Yes, we will, in just a second, Jill Bunny, because you’re a badass. But first, we have an audience question.

Brad Crowell [00:06:27]:

Yeah, we do. The question was, do you actually schedule your lunch break?

Lesley Logan [00:06:33]:

Fuck yes, we do.

Brad Crowell [00:06:34]:


Lesley Logan [00:06:34]:

Did we always?

Brad Crowell [00:06:36]:

No, we didn’t always.

Lesley Logan [00:06:37]:

Well, I did. When I was teaching, I always had a break in the middle of the day.

Brad Crowell [00:06:42]:

I did not.

Lesley Logan [00:06:43]:

You’ve never ever.

Brad Crowell [00:06:44]:

I’ve never been good at this except for, well, the last couple of years.

Lesley Logan [00:06:46]:

Sometimes at 02:00. Brad’s like, I haven’t eaten yet today. And I’m like, are you an adult? Are you hungry? We need to have a reminder.

Brad Crowell [00:06:57]:

I don’t usually eat breakfast.

Lesley Logan [00:07:00]:

I know you really don’t. But at any rate, I have always had a lunch. Now I have scheduled lunch because we work at home together, and if it’s not scheduled, then one of us will interrupt the other person’s work break. So we just take at the same time.

Brad Crowell [00:07:13]:

Yeah. And that’s nice, actually. It’s a lot of fun.

Lesley Logan [00:07:15]:

Yeah. Sometimes you make me lunch.

Brad Crowell [00:07:17]:

It happens. Definitely. But the reason that we do that is because if I didn’t put it in my calendar, it wouldn’t happen. I would just never take a lunch.

Lesley Logan [00:07:27]:

That’s everything, you guys. If you don’t put it in your calendar, it doesn’t get done, period.

Brad Crowell [00:07:31]:

Yeah. So that’s legit. Definitely scheduling your lunch break. It’s worth it. You’ll enjoy it.

Lesley Logan [00:07:37]:

And look, even if you don’t, you’re like, guys, I’m not that hungry. I can eat when I’m on the road. Our doctor, Dr. Bender, shout out to her. She, with both of us, is like, you have to sit down and just eat your lunch. Like not be on your phone, don’t listen to a podcast, which we still do, but just not reading something for work, but just sit and eat your lunch and let it digest. And so we have a whole hour blocked off for lunch, every workday, and we can do whatever we want in that hour.

Lesley Logan [00:08:10]:

We can play around for half an hour and then eat lunch. We can eat lunch and then walk around the block or whatever.

Brad Crowell [00:08:16]:

Or you can make a really extravagant lunch that takes 45 minutes to make.

Lesley Logan [00:08:20]:

He does that a lot. He does that a lot. Or you can go and go, you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to drive across town to get that coffee that would go great after this lunch right now, even though I can make that latte.

Brad Crowell [00:08:33]:

She does that a lot.

Lesley Logan [00:08:34]:

I do. But there’s something luxurious about it. And here’s the thing. There are times to hustle and to another shout out to Kareen until it comes a hassle. And you have got to take time for yourself and not just in the morning and not just at night, but different parts throughout the day. And lunch is very important. The only day we don’t have lunch together is on Tuesdays because I have a fly session after my lunch, technically, so I have lunch after that. But you’ve made it for me before and we just put in the fridge and I’ll eat it later.

Lesley Logan [00:09:05]:

So, yes, schedule your lunch break. You matter.

Brad Crowell [00:09:09]:

Okay, now let’s talk about our guests,Kristen Crowley and Jill Bunny. As co-entrepreneurs I was just going to say copreneurs. As co-entrepreneurs, Jill and Kristen present a harmonious balance of analytical and creative approaches to business. Both promote building genuine online brands using their backgrounds to help women grow their brands. The name reFRAME became symbolic of their adaptability and resilience in the business landscape and they laughed and said the name just stuck. And that is like officially the name of their business. And what they actually focus on are events and retreats.

Lesley Logan [00:09:49]:

Yeah, I really loved a lot of what they said, it was actually a really fun conversation. They’re really one of the few partnerships and I’m like, okay, they can work together as we’ve just seen too many partnerships not work out. They really understand each other and their strengths and everything. So I love this. Jill mentioned confidence comes over time and that just because you have a business doesn’t actually mean you are a business owner. That kind of also comes with time. And I think that’s really interesting because first of all, I think there’s a lot of people going, oh my God, I don’t want to be a business owner, but like fell into this business and also you don’t know what you don’t know. So you’re kind of flying by the seat of your pant, moment to moment, trying to figure things out.

Lesley Logan [00:10:33]:

And then over time, you get confidence, like, oh, I’ve seen this problem before. And it’s really like those after that first year or so, you really go, okay, I got this down, okay? It’s not going to blow up on me. And I’ve got some ideas. So I think that that was really cool. So she said what we have to do is put the reps in and the time in and be proud of what you’re good at. And I just thought, what a great thing to highlight, just be proud of what you’re good at. Too often people are like, oh, I don’t want to brag about what I’m good at because some people are going to think I’m overconfident or weird or whatever. And it’s like, actually no, you should be really proud of what you’re good at because we’re not good at everything.

Lesley Logan [00:11:10]:

And so the things we’re good at are like going to propel the business forward and the things we’re not good at, we’re going to hire out.

Brad Crowell [00:11:15]:

Yeah, I think that it was interesting just to hear them talk about how they connected with each other and how it became like obviously kindred spirits. And we often tell people not to partner up with people, but I know part of the conversation, you talked about it being like a marriage, which we’ve talked about here before on this pod, but they totally agreed and they both came from businesses before and partnerships before in different ways and it just seemed to make sense. It seemed to click for them. So I thought that was really interesting.

Lesley Logan [00:11:56]:

Yeah, well, I mean, just to jump into your side of things, they said you need to make sure that your partner has the same moral compass. And I think that is the same as your partner in life, but really that makes a big difference. And I think a lot of people partner up in business and they both want the thing to grow and they don’t want to do all the work alone, which is why they do it, but they don’t actually have the same moral compass. In fact, in Agency Mini, this one person was like, hey, should I partner up with this studio owner? And I’m like, you mean the studio owner who’s illegally got you classified as not an employee and is, in your words, squandering? No, you should not. You should not because that’s not the same role compass.

Brad Crowell [00:12:40]:

Right. Yeah, totally. I’m glad they talked about partnerships, like how that works because they said that the thing that was really important was sitting down and being crystal clear with each other about things. Like number one thing was money. Are we both putting our personal money into this? Are we raising money from somewhere else? Like, how are we doing this? What are our expectations and how is this going to work? And they both agreed on the way that it would work and effectively being transparent about their personal finances just in case something didn’t go the way they expected, could they continue to keep it going? And they effectively made a financial commitment to each other, and then they agreed on they understood, okay, cool. This is where we’re at. They said, specifically because at the end of the day, everyone has to be on the same page.

Lesley Logan [00:13:34]:

Well, here’s what I love. It’s all communication, and this is the same thing.

Brad Crowell [00:13:37]:

It really is.

Lesley Logan [00:13:38]:

This is why I keep saying it’s a partnership and your business is like a marriage. You have to do the exact same thing before you marry someone. These are the exact same things you have to do. But I think so many people are afraid of looking dumb or like they know what they’re doing, or they get caught up in the excitement of what the business could be. And it’s like, you got to sit down and just go, okay, down and dirty. Like, how deep am I going to get into this? How deep are we both getting into this before we go? This isn’t working. You have to have the exit strategy as well, because you do have to think, what if this doesn’t go well? Who gets what? What happens here? And I learned that from oh, my gosh, a podcast I listened to ten years ago.

Lesley Logan [00:14:19]:

These two girls became friends on Facebook or whatever. They both did similar things. They partnered up and had an amazing podcast. It was one of the top podcasts at the time for women in business. And they decided to eventually actually make a membership together, which would be the first thing, except for the podcast, where they actually made money together. And they brought on their lawyer, and they said, we sat down with a lawyer and we said, what do we need to talk about before we do this? And she said, we should talk about what happens if one of you doesn’t want to do this anymore. We have to talk about how this ends, what are the different ways it could end, and then what happens? And that was such an interesting thing to hear, because no one wants to talk about, like, well, how does it end? But you have to think about it so that if you do need to walk away, how much does each person get? How much do you have to pay to get out of it? Or how much should you get paid to get out of it? So I really enjoyed listening to the fact that they talked about the money. They were very clear on things, and they got very vulnerable about what the states of their personal lives were, because guess what? Your personal life comes into your business all the fucking time.

Brad Crowell [00:15:30]:

Yeah, totally.

Lesley Logan [00:15:31]:

All the time.

Brad Crowell [00:15:32]:


Lesley Logan [00:15:32]:

If anything’s going on with one of our family members and they call us the middle of a workday, you better believe it fucks the day up. So I just thought it was really nice, honest conversation.

Brad Crowell [00:15:42]:

Yeah. And they talked briefly about some red flags, and that was basically hiding things and not being communicative or not being as committed to the vision. And they said, definitely partnerships shouldn’t be formed out of desperation. A good partner should push for growth and also keep one on track.

Lesley Logan [00:16:08]:

Can we just highlight, partnerships should not be put together out of desperation. So if you are having someone partner with you because you’re desperate and you need help in your business, that is not the best time to get a partner. You need to take a pause and really understand what you’re doing because you’ll partner up with someone who you think is a lifeline, and then it just really changes the roles and you don’t think through things clearly.

Brad Crowell [00:16:34]:

Yeah. I do think that if you are going to bring on a team member or a partner, it should be someone with complementary skills, skills that are not your own, so that you’re not both trying to do the same things. But yeah, like making a partnership out of desperation is dangerous. (Lesley Logan: Yeah.) All right, so finally, let’s talk about those Be It Action Items. What bold, executable, intrinsic or targeted action items can we take away from your convo with Kristen Crowley and Jill Bunny? They said when it came to understanding and presenting your authentic self online rather than imitating others. So this is actually really similar to what we were just talking about with a PR person in the last episode, because what their retreats are all about is rebranding your brand. So if you’re stuck, you’re not feeling like you know what you’re doing with your brand, then they offer these events where you can dig in over a couple of days, or some of them are just day retreats and really analyze your social media presence and the way your brand looks and all these kinds of things. And so when they’re talking about presenting yourself authentically we’re reiterating this here, people, because they said building a brand is about knowing who you are and who you’re serving, and then you’re going to structure everything around it, around your story, and then the problems that you’re solving for the people that you’re serving.

Lesley Logan [00:18:08]:

I love this is back to back with Whitney Lee.

Brad Crowell [00:18:09]:

It’s kind of crazy.

Lesley Logan [00:18:10]:

You did a good job there. So I actually really enjoyed the action items that Jill talked about because she’s like, I’m Jill 2.0 and she is, like, checking in throughout the day if what she’s doing is aligned with her, with the 2.0. So all these things that she wants are the actions that she’s taking, align with that, not just writing them down and going off onto the day, but really checking back in. So it’s not just about journaling, so you feel good about yourself, but actually going, okay, where am I at in alignment with what this is? Am I actually doing those steps that get through there. And it made me think of Alan Stein Jr. Jeez. His interview from the beginning of this year just keeps on giving, and his whole thing is he ends every single day. Like, am I 1% closer to the man I want to be? And it’s like, how can you find time in your day to check back in with your actual goals and just really understand, like, okay, today I did these things, and they had nothing to do with 2.0, in fact, I like, went backwards, and just being honest with that.

Brad Crowell [00:19:12]:

Episode 167.

Lesley Logan [00:19:13]:

167. I was not going to get that because I don’t remember what the year started. But that’s my fault. Maybe I should study.

Brad Crowell [00:19:20]:

It’s all good. You’re fine.

Lesley Logan [00:19:21]:

I know, but I want to be like that guy who’s uncrooked, who he can go Oscar winner director, 1973. And he’s like, DA DA DA DA. And I’m like, no, maybe I don’t have that skill. But be it till we see it. Right. So, anyways, I think it’s really important to check back in, whether it’s a vision board or a journal or a goal, just making sure each day it’s like, look at that and go, yes, I’m still on track. Or go, oh, wow, I got a little derailed today. Little derailed.

Lesley Logan [00:19:52]:

And what can you do to just get back on that I just thought was a really fun way of reflecting on where we’re trying to be so we can be it till we see it.

Brad Crowell [00:20:01]:

I love it.

Lesley Logan [00:20:02]:

Me too. I’m Lesley Logan.

Brad Crowell [00:20:03]:

And I’m Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan [00:20:04]:

Thank you so much for listening to this amazing podcast. We couldn’t do it without you. So what are you going to do with these tips? How are you going to use them? What was your favorite part? We want to know. Tag, jill Bunny and Kristen Crowley and the Be It pod. And let us know and share this with a friend who needs to hear that they can reframe, that they can start over. They can do awesome things. Maybe that friend is you. And until next time, Be It Till You See It.

Brad Crowell [00:20:25]:

Bye for now.

Lesley Logan
That’s all I’ve got for this episode of the Be It Till You See It podcast. One thing that would help both myself and future listeners is for you to rate this show and leave a review. And, follow or subscribe for free wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, make sure to introduce yourself over on IG at the @be_it_pod on Instagram. I would love to know more about you. Share this episode with whoever you think needs to hear it. Help us help others to BE IT TILL YOU SEE IT. Have an awesome day!

Lesley Logan
‘Be It Till You See It’ is a production of ‘Bloom Podcast Network’.

Brad Crowell
It’s written, filmed and recorded by your host, Lesley Logan and me, Brad Crowell.

Lesley Logan
It is produced and edited by the epic team at Disenyo.

Brad Crowell
Our theme music is by Ali at APEX Production Music. And our branding by designer and artist, Gianfranco Cioffi.

Lesley Logan
Special thanks to Melissa Solomon for creating our visuals and Ximena Velasquez for our transcriptions.

Brad Crowell
Also to Angelina Herico for adding all the content to our website. And finally to Meridith Crowell for keeping us all on point and on time.

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